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Post by Sara on Mar 31, 2005 12:19:50 GMT -5
Oh yes. Did you see the trailer, with a very injured Boone begging Jack to just "let him go?" I do not want Boone to die. I don't want any of them to die, though I can imagine that such a thing could happen in a show like this one. Locke leaving Boone - yes, terrible thing to do. Definite parallel being drawn with what his own father did to him: [/li][li]Locke's dad, Anthony, lets him put his own (Locke's) life at risk, with the thought that he is doing something for the both of them -something they will both benefit from. Then once he has what he wants, Anthony abandons his physically damaged and hurting son and leaves him all alone in the hospital to go back to his own life and interests. [/li][li]Locke tells Boone to make that climb: "You have to do it for us." He can see it is dangerous, and he's even had a dream suggesting Boone will get hurt. Then he abandons the ailing Boone to go back to his obsession - the hatch. Of course, Locke is NOWHERE near as slimy and deliberate and ruthless and hurtful and absolutely selfish about it all as Anthony. But still, I believe the parallel is deliberate. Locke subconsciously doing to Boone what his father did to him. Yes - am anxious to see Shannon's reaction in general to Boone's terrible state.[/quote] I just realized--Locke's father is named Anthony. And Anthony is the patron saint of... wait for it... lost things, missing persons, and shipwrecks. No, really--check it out here. ETA: Oooooh--he's also the patron saint of expectant mothers. This keeps getting better and better...
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Post by SpringSummers on Mar 31, 2005 12:21:55 GMT -5
I just realized--Locke's father is named Anthony. And Anthony is the patron saint of... wait for it... lost things, missing persons, and shipwrecks. No, really--check it out here. Had a grandfather named Antonio, and a mother that used to pray to St Anthony whenever she lost anything. But never thought of said saint till you mentioned him. Hard to see Anthony Cooper as any kind of saint, though.
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Post by Sara on Mar 31, 2005 12:25:18 GMT -5
Had a grandfather named Antonio, and a mother that used to pray to St Anthony whenever she lost anything. But never thought of said saint till you mentioned him. Hard to see Anthony Cooper as any kind of saint, though. Oh, hell no--I just thought the choice of name was interesting in the overall context of the show.
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Post by Pixi on Mar 31, 2005 12:27:35 GMT -5
I just realized--Locke's father is named Anthony. And Anthony is the patron saint of... wait for it... lost things, missing persons, and shipwrecks. No, really--check it out here. ETA: Oooooh--he's also the patron saint of expectant mothers. This keeps getting better and better... Really? Wow. Those sneaky, sneaky writers. If I have to cast a vote - I think Boone will die. J.J. has consistently said someone will die - so here we have someone who may have been sacrificed . . . . I don't know. I just think he's definitely a possibility. And I think the baby is due to come next week isn't it? The promos certainly indicate that though I can see them ending with a labor scene. Wouldn't it be fun if it was a lizard baby? J/K. But did anyone else watch the actual V miniseries in real time and when that lizard baby came out waving its arms around - dying people, I was dying.
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Post by Sara on Mar 31, 2005 16:08:08 GMT -5
That is SOOOOO not a trebuchet!! Jeeze, Locke!! Calling a standard catapult a trebuchet. Silly person. Or silly writers. Huh, so that's how he got hurt... I knew that was gonna come in the moment he said that he had a foster mother. Huh... I can almost believe the immaculate conception. "snappy one-liner and a brand new nickname..." Interesting thing... I was telling someone here at work about this conversation and how at least two people told me it wasn't a trebuchet but just a catapult. This made us both realize we didn't even know what the hell the difference was. So, like anyone of my generation, I went searching online for the answer. And the thing is... from what I've read, I think it was a trebuchet--not a catapult. Here's what I found out: a catapult relies on the tension in the ropes or straps being pulled back to create the impetus behind the object being thrown and uses something to stop the arm at the desired release point--meaning the follow-through is halted. A trebuchet uses counterweights to launch the arm, meaning more energy gets transferred to whatever you're throwing, meaning an object goes farther and faster than if the same item were launched from a catapult. The weighted beam doing the throwing simply swings on a pivot. More important, though, nothing stops the arm of the trebuchet on the follow-through--and its motion is entirely downward. What it seems to boil down to is this: the catapult is powered by elastic tension; a trebuchet is powered by gravity. As far as I could tell, what Locke and Boone did was pull down on one end to make the other rise and then let their side go--the weight they'd raised fell, making the beam rotate through an arc. Presuming my recollection is accurate, then by everything I've read Locke did indeed make a trebuchet. My sources included this, this, this and this. Make of it what you will.
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Post by Linda on Mar 31, 2005 17:53:41 GMT -5
Hi all! I love everyone's comments here. Eetah about Matthew's stream-of-consciousness posting and "Lost" in Spring's brain post & MakD's insomnia posts & Sara's extra research-y posts. Extreme coolness. I liked the episode. But the main surprise to me was that we still don't know how Locke ended up in a wheelchair. However, that opens up the timeline a *lot*. We know that this happened more than four years ago. (Although, for some reason, the bad hair made him seem older than he is on the island to me.) Miscellaneous random thoughts: OK, when the words "Better or Worse" came into focus, was I the only one who thought: Awwwww, Jack & Sawyer are married now. (OK, just me. : Neat catch, Patti & Pixi about the light & dark sides of the glasses. Ok, lots of gross things in the episode. Special mention to foot-burning and centipede out of eye. Locke likes games. Before his father, Mousetrap. Post-father, wargames. Not a hunter until he meets up with Dad. (But a good shot from the start.) So, "Immaculate Conception" mom is a hollow druggie. How close were the guys that said "There were no survivors of Flight 815"? What is the potential range of a small aircraft's radio? With possible custom boostage by drug smugglers? Eetah about Locke using Boone the way his dad used him. But, Locke overcame his paralysis to carry Boone back to Jack. I think it cost him in physical effort and guilt, so he's not the same sort of user, IMO. Moments of honesty = finding signs/directions, but also used for manipulation. Locke keeps the secret of his paralysis from Boone for a long time, despite many openings to tell him. His mentioning the name Theresa gets Boone to go with him (although he *did* ask.) His revealing of his former paralysis got Boone to keep going on the plane hunt with him. But he never revealed (to Boone or to us) *how* he ended up paralyzed in the first place. The moment of nakedest honesty belonged to Boone, though, when he revealed who Theresa was and how he was responsible for her death. And *that* revealed the plane. And Locke's naked despair seems to me to be what called up the light. I actually liked Boone for a few minutes there. That mysterious metal thingy looked like a football to me. So: Real or Nerf? All signs point to fake. Linda, 's'all I got for now. P.S. Hawaii still pretty, though a bit cloudy throughout. Yep, that was the chilly depths of winter right there onscreen. Brrr. **ducks snowballs & mud**
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Post by Linda on Mar 31, 2005 17:56:07 GMT -5
Added for this episode:
John Locke Episode B: Deus Ex Machina
Flashback turning point: Finding out how his Dad used him. Island turning point: Dunno if Locke actually "turns" from a path. He keeps going & going & following the "signs." Why in Australia: already answered in Walkabout Misc. facts: Grew up in foster care. Worked in a Toy warehouse. Good with kids. Likes games (less violent than wargames from Walkabout). Mother is an unstable flitterer who is capable of giving Locke up (telling herself that he was adopted instead of abandoned), taking money for lying to him, and still not taking responsibility (IMO) for any of it. Father's worse (see Father issues). Misc. questions: Still don't know how he got paralyzed. What the heck is the metal thing & what's with the light? Are there rescuers nearby? "How the heck did he escape!?" Jungle of Mystery Moment: covered in Walkabout, although he shlepped Boone a long way to get him back to Jack. Cameo in someone else's flashback: ?? Was the mousetrap kid Sawyer? Con Man or Killer?: victim of a con. Father issues (Karen's excellent category addition): Father is Anthony Cooper who turns out to be a slimy manipulative user, who plays on Locke's need to believe in something, to get a life-saving kidney.
New stuff about Boone:
Con Man or Killer?: Killer (unintentionally) of his nanny.
Linda, this was assembled on the run from work, so feel free to add / argue!
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Post by SpringSummers on Mar 31, 2005 19:00:50 GMT -5
Added for this episode: John Locke Episode B: Deus Ex Machina Flashback turning point: Finding out how his Dad used him. Island turning point: Dunno if Locke actually "turns" from a path. He keeps going & going & following the "signs." Why in Australia: already answered in Walkabout Misc. facts: Grew up in foster care. Worked in a Toy warehouse. Good with kids. Likes games (less violent than wargames from Walkabout). Mother is an unstable flitterer who is capable of giving Locke up (telling herself that he was adopted instead of abandoned), taking money for lying to him, and still not taking responsibility (IMO) for any of it. Father's worse (see Father issues). Misc. questions: Still don't know how he got paralyzed. What the heck is the metal thing & what's with the light? Are there rescuers nearby? "How the heck did he escape!?" Jungle of Mystery Moment: covered in Walkabout, although he shlepped Boone a long way to get him back to Jack. Cameo in someone else's flashback: ?? Was the mousetrap kid Sawyer? Con Man or Killer?: victim of a con. Father issues (Karen's excellent category addition): Father is Anthony Cooper who turns out to be a slimy manipulative user, who plays on Locke's need to believe in something, to get a life-saving kidney. New stuff about Boone: Con Man or Killer?: Killer (unintentionally) of his nanny. Linda, this was assembled on the run from work, so feel free to add / argue! Definitely agree Locke comes nowhere near replicating the vileness of his father - though I think the Boone similarities are deliberate and meant to get us thinking about all that. Sawyer as the mousetrap kid? I wasn't pay enough attention and don't have the eps taped . . . we saw little Sawyer once before, so if anyone has these taped, a comparison could be made. It certainly would help place the happenings in time. I couldn't make out what the people on the radio were saying . . . they said "there were no survivors of 815?" Very interesting. Great posts - thanks Linda!
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Post by Karen on Mar 31, 2005 19:15:37 GMT -5
Really? Wow. Those sneaky, sneaky writers. If I have to cast a vote - I think Boone will die. J.J. has consistently said someone will die - so here we have someone who may have been sacrificed . . . . I don't know. I just think he's definitely a possibility. And I think the baby is due to come next week isn't it? The promos certainly indicate that though I can see them ending with a labor scene. Wouldn't it be fun if it was a lizard baby? J/K. But did anyone else watch the actual V miniseries in real time and when that lizard baby came out waving its arms around - dying people, I was dying. Boone seems like the logical one to die - he's so close to it at the moment. Probably a mislead then, but then maybe the mislead will end up not being a mislead after all. I can't imagine them getting rid of any of them. I'll put a vote in for Michael - just because I think that rafting expedition is not going to end well. I used to watch 'V' and saw the lizard baby being born. Loved that show.
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Post by Karen on Mar 31, 2005 19:18:20 GMT -5
Interesting thing... I was telling someone here at work about this conversation and how at least two people told me it wasn't a trebuchet but just a catapult. This made us both realize we didn't even know what the hell the difference was. So, like anyone of my generation, I went searching online for the answer. And the thing is... from what I've read, I think it was a trebuchet--not a catapult. Here's what I found out: a catapult relies on the tension in the ropes or straps being pulled back to create the impetus behind the object being thrown and uses something to stop the arm at the desired release point--meaning the follow-through is halted. A trebuchet uses counterweights to launch the arm, meaning more energy gets transferred to whatever you're throwing, meaning an object goes farther and faster than if the same item were launched from a catapult. The weighted beam doing the throwing simply swings on a pivot. More important, though, nothing stops the arm of the trebuchet on the follow-through--and its motion is entirely downward. What it seems to boil down to is this: the catapult is powered by elastic tension; a trebuchet is powered by gravity. As far as I could tell, what Locke and Boone did was pull down on one end to make the other rise and then let their side go--the weight they'd raised fell, making the beam rotate through an arc. Presuming my recollection is accurate, then by everything I've read Locke did indeed make a trebuchet. My sources included this, this, this and this. Make of it what you will. For a bit, I thought that we were going to find out the Locke learned all his skills from his outdoorsy father. Do we know where he got his skills? Self-taught? From his many foster homes? He seems to be knowledgeable in many different areas.
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Post by leftylady on Apr 1, 2005 18:20:06 GMT -5
For a bit, I thought that we were going to find out the Locke learned all his skills from his outdoorsy father. Do we know where he got his skills? Self-taught? From his many foster homes? He seems to be knowledgeable in many different areas. He seemed like a natural with the gun. First time hunting and, bam, gets the bird. Like father, like son? other comments: Did anyone perk up when Mom said Locke was special? Another "special" person? We're finding out that they may ALL be "special", in some way or another. I don't get the "Locke abandoned Boone" idea. I saw it as his running in despair and guilt over his responsibility for the accident and Boone's injuries. Was especially struck by the image of Locke prostrate on the hatch. Reminded me of paintings of Jesus weeping in the Garden. Or alternatively, of a supplicant throwing himself on an altar to pray. Hmm... now that I've put that down in writting, let's see.... We got a claim of immaculate conception, carrying Boone like the burden of the cross after spending lengthy time in the wilderness, and now weeping in the Garden, a little out of order I'll admit, but doesn't that come before the crucifixion? Love all the imagery we're getting. So if someone is supposed to die by season's end, and if it were Locke, would he then rise from the dead for Season 2?
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Apr 2, 2005 21:41:46 GMT -5
He seemed like a natural with the gun. First time hunting and, bam, gets the bird. Like father, like son? other comments: Did anyone perk up when Mom said Locke was special? Another "special" person? We're finding out that they may ALL be "special", in some way or another. I don't get the "Locke abandoned Boone" idea. I saw it as his running in despair and guilt over his responsibility for the accident and Boone's injuries. Was especially struck by the image of Locke prostrate on the hatch. Reminded me of paintings of Jesus weeping in the Garden. Or alternatively, of a supplicant throwing himself on an altar to pray. Hmm... now that I've put that down in writting, let's see.... We got a claim of immaculate conception, carrying Boone like the burden of the cross after spending lengthy time in the wilderness, and now weeping in the Garden, a little out of order I'll admit, but doesn't that come before the crucifixion? Love all the imagery we're getting. So if someone is supposed to die by season's end, and if it were Locke, would he then rise from the dead for Season 2? I'm sorry to say that when Locke's mother said he was "special", I started yelling at the TV. "No more special children! They add any more special children, I'm outa here!". Eetah on Locke running away out of guilt - he got Boone back to camp, and under Jack's care. There was nothing more Locke could do for Boone, at that point.
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 2, 2005 21:51:14 GMT -5
He seemed like a natural with the gun. First time hunting and, bam, gets the bird. Like father, like son? other comments: Did anyone perk up when Mom said Locke was special? Another "special" person? We're finding out that they may ALL be "special", in some way or another. I don't get the "Locke abandoned Boone" idea. I saw it as his running in despair and guilt over his responsibility for the accident and Boone's injuries. Was especially struck by the image of Locke prostrate on the hatch. Reminded me of paintings of Jesus weeping in the Garden. Or alternatively, of a supplicant throwing himself on an altar to pray. Hmm... now that I've put that down in writting, let's see.... We got a claim of immaculate conception, carrying Boone like the burden of the cross after spending lengthy time in the wilderness, and now weeping in the Garden, a little out of order I'll admit, but doesn't that come before the crucifixion? Love all the imagery we're getting. So if someone is supposed to die by season's end, and if it were Locke, would he then rise from the dead for Season 2? I agree it was guilt that motivated the abandonment, but it was still abandonment. Boone is severly, possibly fatally injured, because of what Locke suggested, and Locke - instead of sticking around to just plain be there (which most definitely is what he should have done) he left. He should have stayed - in case he could be of help, in case Boone called for him, in case he could provide some emotional support for Boone, or just to find out if Boone was going to live or die. Yes, I agree it Locke's decision to leave was, at least in part certainly, due to guilt. But it was also abandonment. Boone was possibly dying; no way Locke should have left him.
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Post by Rob on Apr 2, 2005 22:17:50 GMT -5
I agree it was guilt that motivated the abandonment, but it was still abandonment. Boone is severly, possibly fatally injured, because of what Locke suggested, and Locke - instead of sticking around to just plain be there (which most definitely is what he should have done) he left. He should have stayed - in case he could be of help, in case Boone called for him, in case he could provide some emotional support for Boone, or just to find out if Boone was going to live or die. Yes, I agree it Locke's decision to leave was, at least in part certainly, due to guilt. But it was also abandonment. Boone was possibly dying; no way Locke should have left him. Also? The cliff explanation may not have held up to closer scrutiny. Locke is determined to keep the balance of the group away from the hatch...for reasons that haven't been made totally clear, unless I missed something crucial.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Apr 2, 2005 22:34:16 GMT -5
Also? The cliff explanation may not have held up to closer scrutiny. Locke is determined to keep the balance of the group away from the hatch...for reasons that haven't been made totally clear, unless I missed something crucial. I don't think you missed anything, Rob. Locke is obsessed with that hatch to the point of madness, right now. I have the impression that he thinks the island told him to find it, but I could be wrong.
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