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Post by Matthew on Sept 22, 2005 9:11:54 GMT -5
I agree Jack was unprofessional with his patient. He was plainly getting WAY too personally involved - which we know is going to play out, since the two are going to get married. Honestly, as a paralegal who handles medical malpractice cases on a daily basis, all I could think of during the ER scene was how soon will the relatives of that other patient be calling attorneys? Jack's behavior was terrible. And honestly - completely unrealistic. Doctor's are so aware of malpractice these days that they are very careful what they say to patients. If they don't want to be sued that is. Well, it was a few years back.. and surgeons tend to write their own rules on what they can say. Look at House, ferinstance. Dunno. I just saw it as a sign that some "humanity" was breaking through the "surgeon" mask.
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Post by Jan on Sept 22, 2005 9:12:48 GMT -5
First he tells this patient that there's no chance at all she'll ever regain more than limited mobility; which I don't think is something a doctor would do when the patient has just been through an accident, they'd tell them what the problem is and say they need to do surgery, and they'll know more after the surgery - I can't see any doc being so definite at that point. Then, when the patient wakes up after surgery, her surgeon has been waiting around for her to be coherent enough to communicate properly? Waking up from anesthesia occurs over a long while; when one first awakens, one is groggy and disoriented. It looked like Jack had been hanging around waiting for Sarah to awaiken, which no surgeon would do.
But worst of all was Jack telling this poor woman who was supposedly paralyzed that he'd been running and had hurt his ankle, and then saying how sorry he was that he hadn't helped her - with tears in his eyes. That's bound to make a frightened patient feel worse. If I were facing paralysis, I would be horrified if my doctor were babbling about running and hurting his ankle, and was practically crying at me - I'd want sympathy, but not tears from him...And I don't think tears, red eyes, obvious signs of deep distress are considered part of the professional behavior expected from a doctor talking to his patient about her condition.
8-)GAIL Huh... Doctors are human: some of them are real jerks, and some of them are just.. clueless. A surgeon is more likely to have a lousy bedside manner in general, as they are rarely (as you point out) involved in the day-to-day care of a patient. I thought it was very much a symptom of his "breakthrough" that he became emotionally involved in this case: that it allowed him to see people as creatures that live on hope. Which helped him later in his surgical carreer, and his life. Perhaps he was unproffesional: but I don't see his actions as unethical. Eeetah. Also, joining in on the not liking his reaction to Hurley. But then there's much about Jack that isn't likable, which I see as of the good.
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Post by Matthew on Sept 22, 2005 9:12:54 GMT -5
Honestly, as a paralegal who handles medical malpractice cases on a daily basis, all I could think of during the ER scene was how soon will the relatives of that other patient be calling attorneys? Jack's behavior was terrible. And honestly - completely unrealistic. Doctor's are so aware of malpractice these days that they are very careful what they say to patients. If they don't want to be sued that is. Doctors may be particularly careful these days, but what we saw most likely took place some years ago; Jack's hair says "early 90s" to me, and I imagine it would have taken a solid 6-12 months of physical therapy for Sara to be fully mobile again--enough to dance at her wedding, anyway. Jack's early bedside manner was pretty crappy--which I imagine was kind of the point of showing it. It seemed to me that what we saw happened very early in Jack's medical career--his "what did I do wrong now" conversation with his father suggested he was still learning the ropes. And as for his later conversation with Sara and how emotional he got... I honestly attributed it to exhaustion (I have to think the operation was a long one, given the complexity of what he was trying to do, and instead of sleeping while Sara came out of anesthesia he instead went through a pretty grueling workout) and a crushing sense of failure--we know Jack doesn't like letting people down now, and I imagine when he was a young doctor he handled it even worse. What she said.
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Post by Matthew on Sept 22, 2005 9:14:07 GMT -5
“Kind of unlike you, the whole “glass half full, thing” “There’s a glass?” Kate wants you, Jack. But she’s leaving to go die with Locke. “Live together, die alone” Where is that from?Huh, she had another fiancée. At the time.. He’s gonna run away. Oh, for christ’s sake…. She’s better off without him. This is a case where his blunt bedside manner is useful. Little secret? She’s going to bite his face.. No, she’s excusing him. That must be what drives him on. “I’m gonna fix you” Shepard doesn’t usually make promises like that. I wonder if this is the “1,2,3.4,5” surgery he mentions in the first episode.. Oh, how sweet, he was waiting for her! Yes, he wants you to go down first. That way you die. “Yeah, well, that too” On the “see if I get eaten” “stop” Are those jungle lianas they are using? That’s a silly thing to use for rope.. No, it was the pinion.-point that gives.. oh, it’s the wire from the plane? .. DANG, woman screams like Willow. “Well, okay, then.. And she’s doing the counting thing.. “John, I think there;s something down…..” Light switches on with a bang? Switches off with a bang? And evaporates Kate without a sound. OWIE on the hand.. yeech!! From the fifth episode, "White Rabbit." Jack told the group then: "..If we can't live together...we're gonna die alone." Spasibo! Interesting they were going back to last season so much: trusting us to be able to follow, as with Kate's decision to have a five-second panic attack during the descent.
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Post by Sara on Sept 22, 2005 9:15:40 GMT -5
Huh... Doctors are human: some of them are real jerks, and some of them are just.. clueless. A surgeon is more likely to have a lousy bedside manner in general, as they are rarely (as you point out) involved in the day-to-day care of a patient. I thought it was very much a symptom of his "breakthrough" that he became emotionally involved in this case: that it allowed him to see people as creatures that live on hope. Which helped him later in his surgical carreer, and his life. Perhaps he was unproffesional: but I don't see his actions as unethical. Eeetah. Also, joining in on the not liking his reaction to Hurley. But then there's much about Jack that isn't likable, which I see as of the good. Yeah, his reaction to Hurley disappointed me. Then again, it also didn't surprise me.
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Post by Pixi on Sept 22, 2005 9:17:29 GMT -5
Honestly, as a paralegal who handles medical malpractice cases on a daily basis, all I could think of during the ER scene was how soon will the relatives of that other patient be calling attorneys? Jack's behavior was terrible. And honestly - completely unrealistic. Doctor's are so aware of malpractice these days that they are very careful what they say to patients. If they don't want to be sued that is. Doctors may be particularly careful these days, but what we saw most likely took place some years ago; Jack's hair says "early 90s" to me, and I imagine it would have taken a solid 6-12 months of physical therapy for Sara to be fully mobile again--enough to dance at her wedding, anyway. Jack's early bedside manner was pretty crappy--which I imagine was kind of the point of showing it. It seemed to me that what we saw happened very early in Jack's medical career--his "what did I do wrong now" conversation with his father suggested he was still learning the ropes. And as for his later conversation with Sara and how emotional he got... I honestly attributed it to exhaustion (I have to think the operation was a long one, given the complexity of what he was trying to do, and instead of sleeping while Sara came out of anesthesia he instead went through a pretty grueling workout) and a crushing sense of failure--we know Jack doesn't like letting people down now, and I imagine when he was a young doctor he handled it even worse. Good point about the time frame of the flashback. I'm just very meh on Jack and his backstories and I tend not to enjoy them very much. The actress playing Sara doesn't appeal to me very much either - acting wise so I was seriously uninvested in these scenes. I'll grant your points though. I did like his hair. ;D (I hear so much and do so much with malpractice on a daily basis that it does tend to color my opinions and reactions. I'll grant all the rebuttal as very valid)
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Post by Sara on Sept 22, 2005 9:25:09 GMT -5
From the fifth episode, "White Rabbit." Jack told the group then: "..If we can't live together...we're gonna die alone." Spasibo! Interesting they were going back to last season so much: trusting us to be able to follow, as with Kate's decision to have a five-second panic attack during the descent. I liked it, myself--if nothing else, I see it as a way of reminding the audience that only 40 days (or so) have elapsed for the castaways and thus events that we saw months ago are still very fresh in the characters' minds.
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Post by Matthew on Sept 22, 2005 9:26:57 GMT -5
Spasibo! Interesting they were going back to last season so much: trusting us to be able to follow, as with Kate's decision to have a five-second panic attack during the descent. I liked it, myself--if nothing else, I see it as a way of reminding the audience that only 40 days (or so) have elapsed for the castaways and thus events that we saw months ago are still very fresh in the characters' minds. *Nods* I was thinking that, myself: it's just difficult at times to keep all the details in memory when a show is telescoped out like this. Of course, this is less telescoping than occurs in a show like "24"..
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Post by Jan on Sept 22, 2005 9:28:19 GMT -5
Doctors may be particularly careful these days, but what we saw most likely took place some years ago; Jack's hair says "early 90s" to me, and I imagine it would have taken a solid 6-12 months of physical therapy for Sara to be fully mobile again--enough to dance at her wedding, anyway. Jack's early bedside manner was pretty crappy--which I imagine was kind of the point of showing it. It seemed to me that what we saw happened very early in Jack's medical career--his "what did I do wrong now" conversation with his father suggested he was still learning the ropes. And as for his later conversation with Sara and how emotional he got... I honestly attributed it to exhaustion (I have to think the operation was a long one, given the complexity of what he was trying to do, and instead of sleeping while Sara came out of anesthesia he instead went through a pretty grueling workout) and a crushing sense of failure--we know Jack doesn't like letting people down now, and I imagine when he was a young doctor he handled it even worse. Good point about the time frame of the flashback. I'm just very meh on Jack and his backstories and I tend not to enjoy them very much. The actress playing Sara doesn't appeal to me very much either - acting wise so I was seriously uninvested in these scenes. I'll grant your points though. I did like his hair. ;D ( I hear so much and do so much with malpractice on a daily basis that it does tend to color my opinions and reactions. I'll grant all the rebuttal as very valid) I understand this. Try watching a submarine movie with my ex, who was on one. Writing so that the pros don't get pulled out of the story by the errors is difficult to the point of nearly impossible. Like watching an actor walk up to a completely strange computer with proprietary software and make it work immediately. I'm much more forgiving about this kind of stuff than Rich, but it does give me a little jolt.
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Post by Jan on Sept 22, 2005 9:29:20 GMT -5
Spasibo! Interesting they were going back to last season so much: trusting us to be able to follow, as with Kate's decision to have a five-second panic attack during the descent. I liked it, myself--if nothing else, I see it as a way of reminding the audience that only 40 days (or so) have elapsed for the castaways and thus events that we saw months ago are still very fresh in the characters' minds. #metoo#
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Post by Matthew on Sept 22, 2005 9:32:22 GMT -5
Good point about the time frame of the flashback. I'm just very meh on Jack and his backstories and I tend not to enjoy them very much. The actress playing Sara doesn't appeal to me very much either - acting wise so I was seriously uninvested in these scenes. I'll grant your points though. I did like his hair. ;D ( I hear so much and do so much with malpractice on a daily basis that it does tend to color my opinions and reactions. I'll grant all the rebuttal as very valid) I understand this. Try watching a submarine movie with my ex, who was on one. Writing so that the pros don't get pulled out of the story by the errors is difficult to the point of nearly impossible. Like watching an actor walk up to a completely strange computer with proprietary software and make it work immediately. I'm much more forgiving about this kind of stuff than Rich, but it does give me a little jolt. "It would drive you crazy if we were watching an army movie and they were all saluting backwards and ... invading all willy-nilly. "
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Post by Jan on Sept 22, 2005 9:49:00 GMT -5
I understand this. Try watching a submarine movie with my ex, who was on one. Writing so that the pros don't get pulled out of the story by the errors is difficult to the point of nearly impossible. Like watching an actor walk up to a completely strange computer with proprietary software and make it work immediately. I'm much more forgiving about this kind of stuff than Rich, but it does give me a little jolt. "It would drive you crazy if we were watching an army movie and they were all saluting backwards and ... invading all willy-nilly. " Quoting from ... ?
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Post by Matthew on Sept 22, 2005 9:49:52 GMT -5
"It would drive you crazy if we were watching an army movie and they were all saluting backwards and ... invading all willy-nilly. " Quoting from ... ? Buffy to Riley, in the teaser from The Replacement
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Post by Pixi on Sept 22, 2005 9:50:00 GMT -5
Okay - I just read this on another board.
The patient who died in the ER is named Rutherford. As in Shannon Rutherford? It was her father?
If so - nice little moment like the seeing Hurley on TV in Jin's flashback.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Sept 22, 2005 9:53:52 GMT -5
My take, before I start reading: Trite and predictable. I knew (I hoped not, but I knew) that Desmond-in-the-stadium was going to be hatch/bomb shelter guy as soon as he said "See you in the next life". It was inevitable. On the other hand, maybe crazy hatch guy really is the show's writer - the cast shoved him down the hatch when he said he didn't know how to resolve the mystery. Another show falls victim to Chris Carter syndrome. Also, either our signal or the sound was bad, or maybe Charlie was mumbling. We had a hard time figuring out what people were saying. I'm going to read all the other comments now, and refrain from saying anything else about the episode.
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