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Post by Karen on May 22, 2007 23:13:38 GMT -5
"I know. Gonna run him over with my Karma" "Random ass-kicking's a good thing. Keeps everyone else in line." Uh.. don't know if that's anything other than Dicklogic... Parker big CREEPY painting. Lily Kane, I mean! Thanks, Sara! That karma line was great. You could take it a couple of different ways.
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Post by Rob on May 23, 2007 0:16:12 GMT -5
I'm very glad the show ended on such a strong note. The last two episodes harkened back to what this show does best: force protagonists to wander into grayer territory than they would prefer, while hoping the end justifies the means. That's Veronica Mars in a nutshell.
Obviously this really wasn't designed to be a series finale...which is too bad. I'd have liked for Rob Thomas to go a more Joss-ian route and give each season a definitive ending (with the exception of Season 6...but then, at the time UPN had given BtVS a 2-year pickup).
Thomas had to know the show's potential of renewal was 50-50...and that's the absolute best case scenario. There should be so many ramifications to the events in this episode...and now we're not to see any of them. :-(
I'll always wonder how more people didn't tune in; when this show was on its game, it was better than 95% of other network programming. In the few episodes when the show was struggling to find direction, it was only better than 90%.
I suppose I should be grateful the network allowed for 64 episodes since the show never developed a mainstream following, a la "Gilmore Girls" or *choke* "Top Model." I don't think anyone can say Veronica Mars didn't get a chance to find acceptance.
I'd like to consider myself a person of slightly above-average intelligence. Despite that fact...I still spend a lot of hours in front of the television :-), and I think it's fair to say I'm far from alone in that. I'd like to think I've learned to separate wheat from chaff pretty quickly...and VM stood out from the first 5 minutes of the pilot.
For the life of me, I'll never understand why a bigger percentage of the viewing population didn't see what I saw.
Of course, this isn't new for me: "Firefly" never really captured mainstream imagination (though as we know, no thanks to Fox), "Wiseguy" actually got 4 seasons and several Emmy/Golden Globe nominations, but for whatever reason it never got the audience it deserved.
Yet "Walker: Texas Ranger" lasted what, 9 years? "According To Jim" lives on? "Survivor: (Insert Remote Location Here)?" "American Idol?" "The Bachelor?"
I don't mean to offend those among us who watch one or more of the shows I listed there...but after seeing the strength of this Veronica Mars finale, I find myself increasingly bitter. If people in this country insist on watching dreck that makes them feel smarter, rather than something that actually challenges their intellect, I have to wonder where the hell society is headed.
And on that depressing note, I retire for the evening. Maybe I'll talk more about episode specifics tomorrow, if I feel up to it.
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Post by Vlad on May 23, 2007 1:20:21 GMT -5
I loved this episode... well really both, but the finale was awesome. I loved how they brought Veronica back full circle... I loved how the characters all showed who they were, that by the end of the episode everyone has had experiences but people are still who they are:
Weevil: Not an evil man, but still a crook. Loyal to Veronica and there for her, but still holding onto that card reader as a means for a profit.
Mac: gal-pal extroidinaire; loyal to V and full of good "see thru you" advice without cramming it down V's throat. She knows how to lay things out for her and let Veronica put it together for herself.. which is what Veronica does best.
Keith: Keith is still Keith and will do anything for his daughter, including sacraficing a career. I never wanted him as a sheriff anyway. I really wanted to see Veronica and Keith butt heads in a next season with him as sheriff and her doing all the things he taught her to do so well. How can you fault her, Keith, she idolizes you and your ideals. How many felonies did you commit in the name of good? Keith Mars PI, the private avenger is a much more suitable profession for you. You can't perform nearly as much good in the world being hampered by trivialities like the law.
Logan: Logan will never change. But you know what Veronica, he's always there for you... and we saw him really try. Some may despise him, some may be disgusted by him, but the goodness that is in Logan, that is left, is there becasue of Veronica. He tries in his way to be loyal to her. And really, as that final scene with him showed and contrasted to Piz.. .well neither one of them was "right."
Piz: Piz is always the good guy, but if there was ever a need to stand up and back a guy off, and let it become physical if the other guy presses it, it was that scene at the cafeteria table. I wanted him, if not to "Logan" the guy's ass, then at least press the other guy into throwing the first punch and then beat him to a pulp. Call me a neandertal, but really, sometimes you have to be not afraid to go wherever you need to go. Even if it's to the county jail on a misdemeaner charge of assault. Piz and Veronica will never work in the end. Veronica understands the need of doing what you need to do, not what is civil. But also, not to be too harsh on him, he was protecting Veronica as best he could. I still give him friend points. He tried to do what he thought was the right thing.
Wallace: noble and willing to sacrafice for his friend Veronica. In the end, it's a shame that there isn't a romantic spark between Wallace and Veronica. Because, really, as he has matured, he is the perfect blend of wimpy but lovable Piz and Logan "point me in a direction and I will go off half-cocked for you" Echolls.
I loved this episode and I loved this series. If it comes back (in any form!) I will continue to watch it. It had it's wobbles, especially this third season, but I lay that at the networks feet, not Thomas'. If it doesn't, at least it went out on the right note: with all the characters we care about so much being themselves... being true to themselves and, at least in their own ways, all being true to Veronica. In the first episode she had no friends but her father. Three years later she has all these people that are there for her, many willing to go to extroidinary lengths to protect her. And she did it her way. Veronica, you are my hero. The bitch is back, indeed!
Vlad
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Post by Matthew on May 23, 2007 1:30:08 GMT -5
Oh I loved it! It was so . . . . depressing. And I mean that in a good way. Really. I'm actually not joking. I loved the . . . bitterness of it. I gotta say, that Sue has a point: I was totally engaged in it, and there with the participants at every twist, bleeding with all of them, and worrying about all of them. But knowing that it was a SERIES ender instead of a mere season-ender made it a real bitter brew to swallow. I mean, it's one thing if you get to look forward to more tales of redemption, but this was so... " Chinatown" in ending. VERY noir, VERY intense: and I'm not eschewing that: I watched all the eps of "Thief" and loved it, and am soooo hooked in "The Riches" right now that I couldn't drop the show if I tried, no matter how bad things get, because there's always that pagliacci-type laughing in the face of hell going on. It's the "Well, you're all so screwed, and we have come back full circle to the beginning of the series" that has me feeling resentful. And though that works from the dramatic standpoint, and has a tragic symmetry to it, well, I just want them to not be in the same ruts they all were in when we first came into the show. Well, I suppose V's not, really, as she has Piz and Wallace and Mac, but Logan's in a similar hell to the one he was in when we first saw him, Keith is in dishonor and is no longer Sheriff, and a thousand or more evil evil powerful men are known to be loose in this world, and the response of a truly morally responsible person is to destroy them with their own hellish secrets, though many of them are amoral and ruthless enough to make that road hell and certain destruction. Seriously: I'll watch this episode again, and cheer as Veronica shows the steel she has inside, and I'll pity and be angry with Logan as he follows his self-destructive heart, and I'll adore Mac and Wallace and even Piz, and I won't hate Dick as much as I used to, but...oh, Keith. True, this was a hell of an episode and the stakes were raised so freaking high, and NOW I WANNA SEE WHAT'S FREAKIN' NEXT! THAT'S why this ending sucked like a swedish porn star!!!! And holy god, but I wanna see Logan stop breaking himself, though I doubt it's possible.
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Post by Matthew on May 23, 2007 1:33:41 GMT -5
OK, I thought these two episodes brought me back to the Veronica Mars that I loved and looked foward too every week! They were 2 of the best episodes of the season for me. And quite frankly this would have been one completely AWESOME story arc to have focused on this year instead of the whole dean murder. Veronica trying to figure out who the Castle were, and who was behind the vid. They could have started this arc 6 episodes into the season and had me wishing every night was Tuesday night. I am sort of pissed that I had to sit through the whole who murdered the dean arc, and RT throws this at me the last 2 episodes. This could have been strung out for at least 10 episodes if not an entire season. I am getting more pissed the more I think about it. Loved Wallace trying to help V. Sticking by his BFF no matter what. Throwing away any chance of joining The Castle to help V take them down, completely sums up their relationship. Perfect. Loved Logan kicking the shit out of the asshole at the end. Showing Veronica, hey I am who I am , anyone fucks with you I beat the hell out of them. Whether you are my girl or not. Perfect. Hated that there are so many question left unanswered. Kieth/Vinnie could have been a great storyline if they had started it about 4 episodes ago. Does Weevil use the card maker? Does Mac end up with Dick? ROFL God I wished these last 2 episodes had sucked so I would not miss this show so much. Well-spoken, Jeff. *nods firmly, like Theodore Roosevelt*
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Post by Matthew on May 23, 2007 1:40:34 GMT -5
That "what did you do?" sounds a whole lot by SMG as Buffy. Love Wallace coming to Veronica and Piz's defense. Parker breaks up with Logan. This show just got really soapy all of a sudden. Some one's always supposed to pay, isn't that the rule we live by?Very interesting... Yeah, where did that come from? Did he learn that from his dad? Some one may have to pay, but that doesn't mean that you should be the one to dole out the punishment. How else, if society isn't going to do it through "proper" channels? Eh. Ties in to the Castle files. That was such an Andrew Vachss moment, that whole story element: terrible and full of wonder and awe at the depths and limits of the human capacity for evil and calloussness, and the... responsibility implicit in having that information (as to specifics) in hand. So easy to build a "better dead" list from watching/listening to the files, and WHAT do you DO with that clear knowledge that this man is evil to the core, that man is troubled by his sins and those he's seen, and how do you proceed? Giving whatsherhead the list of the members isn't nearly a beginning.
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Post by Matthew on May 23, 2007 1:47:41 GMT -5
Yale secet society. GWB is a member: many high-end Yale graduates are. Which makes it sorta low-rent as a secret society.. Ah, thanks for the clarification. Clarifying my clarification: I wasn't saying that the fact that many high-end yale grads are members of skull-and-bones makes it a low-rent secret society: I was thinking that the fact that many people know who is skull-and-bones, and that outsiders DO know about it, makes it low-rent. Which makes me feel better about the Hearst Castle. Because we didn't know jack about it until tonight. So it's officially secreter, and therefore better. *turns off babbletron, takes drugged arse to bed*
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Post by Sue on May 23, 2007 8:14:47 GMT -5
Well, I knew that there would be wildly varying opinions on the finale.
Heck, I have wildly varying opinions and even those opinions vary from moment to moment.
I think instead of encapsulating I'll just answer posts one by one.
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Post by Sue on May 23, 2007 8:17:56 GMT -5
I. Loved. The. Finale. So. Much! I'll post my individual section by section notes, just as I wrote them, later. But first I just had to say how perfectly I think the finale was for this show. Every character got to be exactly who they are. And it had that truly dark, cynical, "see the corruption underneath everything", sacrifice for the ones you love even when it will turn out badly, noir vibe. Scary, when it needed to be, but in a creepily close to real world scary way. And we got so many call backs to the past and especially back to the start of VM.If the show had to go out, this was a heck of a way to do it, as far as I am concerned. I got such a very noir feel. One of my favorite things about the show and they really brought it to the fore for these final eps. **is happy** OK, now I'll read everyone else's posts and start to type out the notes I made. (I feel so stupid that I forgot it started an hour early! I mean, I set the DVR correctly, but didn't start watching 'til the first hour was up, thus mixing me up for my "post as ya watch" thing! Oy! : I don't think I'm quite so enthusiastic as Lola, because I do like to live in fairytale land and I like my heroes to be strong, brave, handsome, true of heart, with totally unsmudged white hats. I like the guy to get the girl and true love to win out. I like to see the bad guys punished.....you get the picture. But I also live in the real world and can appreciate that it ain't gonna happen. So, I agree with the part in red.
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Post by Sue on May 23, 2007 8:19:07 GMT -5
OK, I thought these two episodes brought me back to the Veronica Mars that I loved and looked foward too every week! They were 2 of the best episodes of the season for me. And quite frankly this would have been one completely AWESOME story arc to have focused on this year instead of the whole dean murder. Veronica trying to figure out who the Castle were, and who was behind the vid. They could have started this arc 6 episodes into the season and had me wishing every night was Tuesday night.I am sort of pissed that I had to sit through the whole who murdered the dean arc, and RT throws this at me the last 2 episodes. This could have been strung out for at least 10 episodes if not an entire season. I am getting more pissed the more I think about it. Loved Wallace trying to help V. Sticking by his BFF no matter what. Throwing away any chance of joining The Castle to help V take them down, completely sums up their relationship. Perfect. Loved Logan kicking the shit out of the asshole at the end. Showing Veronica, hey I am who I am , anyone fucks with you I beat the hell out of them. Whether you are my girl or not. Perfect. Hated that there are so many question left unanswered. Kieth/Vinnie could have been a great storyline if they had started it about 4 episodes ago. Does Weevil use the card maker? Does Mac end up with Dick? ROFL God I wished these last 2 episodes had sucked so I would not miss this show so much. And I TOTALLY agree with this! (plus the rest of the post)
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Post by Sue on May 23, 2007 8:19:46 GMT -5
Well, damn. I thought these last episodes got better and better, and I did love the finale. Things will go on in Neptune as they always have. The few and powerful will keep on being corrupt. Those from the wrong side of the tracks will have to struggle against that corruption. Sometimes they'll rise above it, sometimes they'll say 'fuck it' and carve out their own kind of existence. And always, the kids will suffer, but some will also grow and learn from their mistakes, even as they continue to take 2 steps forward and one step backwards. But what we found out is that each one of us is a brain, and an athlete, and a basket case, a princess, and a criminal.What ultimately matters is that Veronica will always have her dad watching her back, and V will always be there for her dad. And so it goes.... And also yep.
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Post by Sue on May 23, 2007 8:26:39 GMT -5
I'm very glad the show ended on such a strong note. The last two episodes harkened back to what this show does best: force protagonists to wander into grayer territory than they would prefer, while hoping the end justifies the means. That's Veronica Mars in a nutshell. Obviously this really wasn't designed to be a series finale...which is too bad. I'd have liked for Rob Thomas to go a more Joss-ian route and give each season a definitive ending (with the exception of Season 6...but then, at the time UPN had given BtVS a 2-year pickup). Thomas had to know the show's potential of renewal was 50-50...and that's the absolute best case scenario. There should be so many ramifications to the events in this episode...and now we're not to see any of them. :-( I'll always wonder how more people didn't tune in; when this show was on its game, it was better than 95% of other network programming. In the few episodes when the show was struggling to find direction, it was only better than 90%. I suppose I should be grateful the network allowed for 64 episodes since the show never developed a mainstream following, a la "Gilmore Girls" or *choke* "Top Model." I don't think anyone can say Veronica Mars didn't get a chance to find acceptance. I'd like to consider myself a person of slightly above-average intelligence. Despite that fact...I still spend a lot of hours in front of the television :-), and I think it's fair to say I'm far from alone in that. I'd like to think I've learned to separate wheat from chaff pretty quickly...and VM stood out from the first 5 minutes of the pilot. For the life of me, I'll never understand why a bigger percentage of the viewing population didn't see what I saw. Of course, this isn't new for me: "Firefly" never really captured mainstream imagination (though as we know, no thanks to Fox), "Wiseguy" actually got 4 seasons and several Emmy/Golden Globe nominations, but for whatever reason it never got the audience it deserved. Yet "Walker: Texas Ranger" lasted what, 9 years? "According To Jim" lives on? "Survivor: (Insert Remote Location Here)?" "American Idol?" "The Bachelor?" I don't mean to offend those among us who watch one or more of the shows I listed there...but after seeing the strength of this Veronica Mars finale, I find myself increasingly bitter. If people in this country insist on watching dreck that makes them feel smarter, rather than something that actually challenges their intellect, I have to wonder where the hell society is headed. And on that depressing note, I retire for the evening. Maybe I'll talk more about episode specifics tomorrow, if I feel up to it. Rob, Also agree with your entire analysis. Honestly? Honestly---VM belonged on PBS. Seriously---like some of those British dramas or comedys. It had that kind of depth. I know why it didn't get more fans, mentioned in my first post: Network Time Slot Competition Audience Appeal was just.....odd. I get why teeny-boppers did "get" it. (Like Buffy seasons 6-7; or maybe even 4-7. Veronica started out too dark and too sophisticated and too mature for the "average" UPN/CW demographic. PBS. If VM had been in novel form it would have been one of those mature teen novels that received awards and became a permanent fixture on required reading lists in AP English courses. At least, if the universe were fair.
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Post by Sue on May 23, 2007 8:28:33 GMT -5
I loved this episode... well really both, but the finale was awesome. I loved how they brought Veronica back full circle... I loved how the characters all showed who they were, that by the end of the episode everyone has had experiences but people are still who they are: Weevil: Not an evil man, but still a crook. Loyal to Veronica and there for her, but still holding onto that card reader as a means for a profit. Mac: gal-pal extroidinaire; loyal to V and full of good "see thru you" advice without cramming it down V's throat. She knows how to lay things out for her and let Veronica put it together for herself.. which is what Veronica does best. Keith: Keith is still Keith and will do anything for his daughter, including sacraficing a career. I never wanted him as a sheriff anyway. I really wanted to see Veronica and Keith butt heads in a next season with him as sheriff and her doing all the things he taught her to do so well. How can you fault her, Keith, she idolizes you and your ideals. How many felonies did you commit in the name of good? Keith Mars PI, the private avenger is a much more suitable profession for you. You can't perform nearly as much good in the world being hampered by trivialities like the law. Logan: Logan will never change. But you know what Veronica, he's always there for you... and we saw him really try. Some may despise him, some may be disgusted by him, but the goodness that is in Logan, that is left, is there becasue of Veronica. He tries in his way to be loyal to her. And really, as that final scene with him showed and contrasted to Piz.. .well neither one of them was "right." Piz: Piz is always the good guy, but if there was ever a need to stand up and back a guy off, and let it become physical if the other guy presses it, it was that scene at the cafeteria table. I wanted him, if not to "Logan" the guy's ass, then at least press the other guy into throwing the first punch and then beat him to a pulp. Call me a neandertal, but really, sometimes you have to be not afraid to go wherever you need to go. Even if it's to the county jail on a misdemeaner charge of assault. Piz and Veronica will never work in the end. Veronica understands the need of doing what you need to do, not what is civil. But also, not to be too harsh on him, he was protecting Veronica as best he could. I still give him friend points. He tried to do what he thought was the right thing. Wallace: noble and willing to sacrafice for his friend Veronica. In the end, it's a shame that there isn't a romantic spark between Wallace and Veronica. Because, really, as he has matured, he is the perfect blend of wimpy but lovable Piz and Logan "point me in a direction and I will go off half-cocked for you" Echolls. I loved this episode and I loved this series. If it comes back (in any form!) I will continue to watch it. It had it's wobbles, especially this third season, but I lay that at the networks feet, not Thomas'. If it doesn't, at least it went out on the right note: with all the characters we care about so much being themselves... being true to themselves and, at least in their own ways, all being true to Veronica. In the first episode she had no friends but her father. Three years later she has all these people that are there for her, many willing to go to extroidinary lengths to protect her. And she did it her way. Veronica, you are my hero. The bitch is back, indeed! Vlad Well, I didn't highlight in red because I'd have highlighted the entire post. Excellent analysis, Vlad. (And, as a good guy I liked Piz a whole lot more than Duncan.)
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Post by Sue on May 23, 2007 8:54:09 GMT -5
Oh I loved it! It was so . . . . depressing. And I mean that in a good way. Really. I'm actually not joking. I loved the . . . bitterness of it. I gotta say, that Sue has a point: I was totally engaged in it, and there with the participants at every twist, bleeding with all of them, and worrying about all of them. But knowing that it was a SERIES ender instead of a mere season-ender made it a real bitter brew to swallow. I mean, it's one thing if you get to look forward to more tales of redemption, but this was so... " Chinatown" in ending. VERY noir, VERY intense: and I'm not eschewing that: I watched all the eps of "Thief" and loved it, and am soooo hooked in "The Riches" right now that I couldn't drop the show if I tried, no matter how bad things get, because there's always that pagliacci-type laughing in the face of hell going on. It's the "Well, you're all so screwed, and we have come back full circle to the beginning of the series" that has me feeling resentful. And though that works from the dramatic standpoint, and has a tragic symmetry to it, well, I just want them to not be in the same ruts they all were in when we first came into the show. Well, I suppose V's not, really, as she has Piz and Wallace and Mac, but Logan's in a similar hell to the one he was in when we first saw him, Keith is in dishonor and is no longer Sheriff, and a thousand or more evil evil powerful men are known to be loose in this world, and the response of a truly morally responsible person is to destroy them with their own hellish secrets, though many of them are amoral and ruthless enough to make that road hell and certain destruction.
Seriously: I'll watch this episode again, and cheer as Veronica shows the steel she has inside, and I'll pity and be angry with Logan as he follows his self-destructive heart, and I'll adore Mac and Wallace and even Piz, and I won't hate Dick as much as I used to, but...oh, Keith. True, this was a hell of an episode and the stakes were raised so freaking high, and NOW I WANNA SEE WHAT'S FREAKIN' NEXT! THAT'S why this ending sucked like a swedish porn star!!!! And holy god, but I wanna see Logan stop breaking himself, though I doubt it's possible. Matthew-- (I know what you mean about The Riches. I didn't even bother to recommend it to Jim because he watches PBS, Discovery, History and Food channels (sadly we don't get Nat'l Geog channel). And he already thinks all I do is troll for new fictional shows. But he must have been channel surfing and The Riches sucked him right in. Good writing is good writing; good acting is good acting (he's totally in love with Minnie).) Normally, I'm not one to keep watching a show that just gets darker and darker and sadder and sadder and abuses its characters relentlessly. (An issue I've had over and over with BSG.) So who knows what would have happened if VM had had a season 4, but I don't think this is the case. RT takes them down these dark paths but generally they do seem to come through and get stronger. As to the red. Yes. I thought THAT was fascinating. Honestly, Veronica surprised me. That she would back off on the info on the disk. (Just having seen it probably puts her life in danger if you ask me.) I thought maybe she and Keith would try to actually bring people to justice. So she finally recognized that there are people so powerful that even she shouldn't take them on? Or (sad to say an indictment of V's character (but she's young) our Veronica is self-absorbed enough that no price is too high to pay to extract revenge but simply going after "justice" is not worth it? Altho, she even gave up on the revenge thing once she knew who the guy was. Given that she's taken on the Fitzpatrick's in the past this seemed a bit odd to me. Plus, she had a video-taped "confession.") [And, dropping back to actually look at specifics of the ep---that scene in the storage unit and the (invisible dog fence) collars was really, really creepy.] Anyway, I got off track, but I agree and said earlier I would have loved to see V and K go up against Kane, et al. Now, as to the part in green. Totally agree BUT: in the end this finale had a very "NFA" vibe about it. Our hero has gone very dark (the Keith part as well as V) but still has her friends gathered round her. She/they are at a very low point, we don't see how they can win the fight, we don't know how the fight will change them all but....but, but, but.....we know they will fight, we know they will overcome evil, we hope they will survive and return to make the world a better place. (Yeah, RT ought to write a book. Not a comic book, but doesn't he write books?)
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 23, 2007 9:09:28 GMT -5
OK, I thought these two episodes brought me back to the Veronica Mars that I loved and looked foward too every week! They were 2 of the best episodes of the season for me. And quite frankly this would have been one completely AWESOME story arc to have focused on this year instead of the whole dean murder. Veronica trying to figure out who the Castle were, and who was behind the vid. They could have started this arc 6 episodes into the season and had me wishing every night was Tuesday night.I am sort of pissed that I had to sit through the whole who murdered the dean arc, and RT throws this at me the last 2 episodes. This could have been strung out for at least 10 episodes if not an entire season. I am getting more pissed the more I think about it. Loved Wallace trying to help V. Sticking by his BFF no matter what. Throwing away any chance of joining The Castle to help V take them down, completely sums up their relationship. Perfect. Loved Logan kicking the shit out of the asshole at the end. Showing Veronica, hey I am who I am , anyone fucks with you I beat the hell out of them. Whether you are my girl or not. Perfect. Hated that there are so many question left unanswered. Kieth/Vinnie could have been a great storyline if they had started it about 4 episodes ago. Does Weevil use the card maker? Does Mac end up with Dick? ROFL God I wished these last 2 episodes had sucked so I would not miss this show so much. Eetah to the red. Everything introduced in these last 3 episodes was far, far more interesting than the two mini-arcs this season. Having all the regulars and semi-regulars appear also really helped. I don't know anything about the budget of the show, but surely there was a way of shifting money around to allow for all the regulars to appear more frequently, because it's when they all interact that the show really shines. I can't agree about Logan beating up the guy, though, unless you mean it was great in a storytelling way. It seemed too much like he was turning into Aaron (ref. Aaron beating up Trina's asshole boyfriend). Particularly since we see him do it twice in a row. How long is it until he accidentally kills some one?
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