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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Jun 28, 2004 22:06:48 GMT -5
Very interesting - the two with the most to hide, apparently, are the most exposed right from the start, apparently. The person who is the most mysterious to me is Book. He's a "closed book", as it were. We get little hints and intriguing clues, but never enough to really know what his past was and why he is on Serenity now. Makes me really wonder how much was planned to be revealed in the rest of the first season of Firefly and how much would have been slowly peeled away year by year. Lola Yup, me too. All we know for sure at the end of Objects in Space is that Book has a lot of secrets; we don't know any of them, although we have a few clues as to what they are. Inara's secrets are at least categorized: why did she leave the Temple of her Order, for instance. Not Book's. Julia, about ready to crash
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Post by Lola m on Jun 29, 2004 5:51:36 GMT -5
Okay, then. My semi-braindead observations: Kaylee is just the most trusting person ever: "He wasn't gonna let me die." And just as I'm thinking, why do you think that? I wasn't sure, she follows it up with, "You just gotta have faith in people." She's got faith in a complete stranger, instantly. In this episode, we get our first indication of River being more than just really smart. She knows that something's up, instinctively, just before Dobson pops up and grabs her. Joss really loves this scene: Bad man is using girl as leverage by holding a gun to her head. Good guy shoots man without any hesitation whatsoever. It works, but boy did I flash on Wes and his father. Except, the difference is that Mal just used one bullet. It was business, not personal, while for Wes it was personal on many levels. When the chips are down, and they're maybe gonna die, Mal lets Inara see how he really feels - but he never tells her. I was thinking that Wash and his Crazy Ivan was the sexiest thing ever, and apparently Zoe agreed with me. ;D It's interesting, to me, that the shepherd goes to the whore for spiritual guidance/reassurance. Not sure what it means, right now, but it's interesting, and shows Inara once again to be "mom". Every time I see that scene with Book going to Inara for guidance, I look at the way it is shot and I think it looks like a benediction, or like she is granting him absolution or something. Lit from behind and him seated before her, mimicing the look of kneeling before a priest. Her hands on his head. I also think the scenes between Book and Inara are supposed to make us see the similarities between them. The crazy Ivan? Oh yeah - dead sexy. Wash is just so uncannily cool and collected and capable and all. And that is always sexy. I'm right there with Zoe when she says "I need this man to tear all my clothes off." I love the Wash and Zoe show. Lola Yeah the bit where Mal just walks in and shoots the Fed is a fave. It's got so many layers. Like, it makes you think of Indiana Jones, where he shoots the guy with a whip. And it shows you the differences in personality and action between Mal and Simon. And it's a great end to the dramatic back and forthing we've just seen - Mal and the gang taking on Patience while the folks back at Serenity are fighting with Dobson. And it also underscores that while the Alliance is a force to be fought against, it doesn't even come close to scaring the crew as much as the Reavers.
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Post by Linda on Jun 29, 2004 7:01:23 GMT -5
Hi all!
For one glorious moment this weekend, I was kinda caught up on the main board. And now I'm not. Ah, well.
Very little brain function, but I did watch Serenity Part 2. And I even skimmed a bit of this thread, although I don't have any particular comments except: good point, nice catch & I didn't notice that (apply to all previous posts.)
Misc. thoughts:
Julia, Karen & Lola re: the theme song: I think you're right. Your interpretation(s) of "sky" in the theme song are more correct than mine. Mal *does* refer to space as the sky (and his freedom). However, I don't think this necessarily precludes the darker interpretation of the last unfinished verse, where the sky could also mean the sky above Serenity, where Mal lost everything (There's no place I can be / Since I found Serenity / But you can't take the sky from me ...) Joss deliberately chose to have an elaborate and expensive opening battle scene after filming some pretty effective exposition (as seen in the DVD deleted scene feature.) I think the most important point of the scene was Mal's devastated expression as he realizes what's happened when he sees the Alliance ships filling the sky. (Maybe I'll change my mind again, though.)
Way, way, way back in time, during Life of the Party, Lorne has a throwaway line about a new show: "It's Grapes of Wrath in outer space. Uh-huh. Oh, it's got heart. Yes, it's got laser battles. It's got a timely message of interstellar poverty. " I've wondered if it was a little in-joke referring to Firefly. Especially with all the talk about being lost in the woods. I am not really familiar with the book, so I can't really say how closely the series matches the book's themes. Is anyone familiar with it?
Mal and Simon always seem to be as far apart as the widescreen allows. And yet, Mal offers him a job and safety at the end, despite all the trouble he knows will come of it. Personally, it reminds me of Buffy's decision to let Spike in for Thanksgiving dinner (without any slash that I can see, though). Simon has useful skills, just as Spike had useful information, but his being a prominent fugitive would cause more problems than the doctoring is worth. And yet, it seems like the right decision to Mal, despite the additional burden and his already strained resources. I would have liked to have seen how their relationship would have played out over the course of years.
Final note: My favorite moment of the episode was when Kaylee, Book & Jayne were in the engine room, prepping for the "Crazy Ivan." Kaylee directed Jayne to cut the hydraulics, saying "This'll be real simple" as Jayne opens the control panel and exposes a mass of wires & lights. I **love** the expression on Jayne's face. Adam B. is awesome.
Linda, saying good god is that the time?
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makd with a wonky board
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Post by makd with a wonky board on Jun 29, 2004 7:01:34 GMT -5
I liked all the ways they show us that the crew has been together for a while - they know each other. And like Erin said earlier, they are a family. The joke Mal plays on Simon - telling him that Kaylee is dead. So he'll freak about his patient and also think that the captain is gonna throw him out an airlock. But it's not just Mal that thinks it's funny. Zoe and Wash and Jayne are all cracking up. 'Cuz they're a solid group. It's an in-joke and they're hazing the new guy - which also makes him part of the family, in a warped way. I think the joke is more than that they're solid. I think it's a sharing of their view that Simon is arrogantly self-interested. He cares about River, but doesn't think about the effect his actions have on others. Like, maybe getting someone else killed. Course, it's also a good/mean trick on us viewers as well. We're meant to be upset and sad and think Kaylee - the nicest character we've met so far - is dead. But by including us in with both the folks laughing and the one being laughed at, we're made a part of the family too. And the two groups are connected by spoken lines. Simon saying "the man's psychotic" and Wash saying "you are psychotic". ITAThe other scene with Mal, Zoe, Wash and Jayne that struck me was after the captain first talks to Patience. There's just that moment of silence and then Mal says: "I believe that woman's plannin' to shoot me again." You can see right away that this is the exact thing they all figured out; they're all on the same wavelength. - Jayne is Mr. Straightforward as usual "She meant to pay you, she'd'a haggled you down some." - Wash is being the funny guy, all insulted and disgusted that she didn't do a better job of trying to fool them. - Mal is just mad and kicking at stuff but knowing they're gonna have to deal with her anyway. - And Zoe is smart enough to know the whole thing is not a good idea and to want to try something else, but she's not gonna contradict the captain by really pushing it. So we get to see how they are a tight crew and also get another fine sample of each of their basic characters and how they play off each other. Yep. And, I must say, I am awed by Zoe's loyalty. She manages to be completely loyal to Mal and to Wash. She's the Strong, Silent Type that most men are "supposed to be" - yet she's clearly all woman. The Jossman wrote another amazing female character. Then of course there's the whole scene with Kaylee directing Jayne and Book in the engine room. She's just perfect in how she quickly assigns Book to stuff that she sees he can do and I love how she handles Jayne. Oh, yeah. Kaylee is the heart. Mal is the head. Jayne is the hands. Although, sometimes I think that Kaylee is the spirit, I feel that Book will become that...or maybe River will.....It's a great ride to see....Lola
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makd I know I logged in damn
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Post by makd I know I logged in damn on Jun 29, 2004 7:07:52 GMT -5
For me, Innara isn't only an Ambassador --- Innara was a fertility/mother goddess in the two rivers area in Mesopatamia.
Book is metaphorically going back - to the mother goddess.
She's also the most educated person, aside from Book and Simon, on board the ship. And, unlike Simon, her knowledge isn't all technical. It's spiritual and psychological as well.
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Post by Rachael on Jun 29, 2004 8:06:47 GMT -5
Every time I see that scene with Book going to Inara for guidance, I look at the way it is shot and I think it looks like a benediction, or like she is granting him absolution or something. Lit from behind and him seated before her, mimicing the look of kneeling before a priest. Her hands on his head. I also think the scenes between Book and Inara are supposed to make us see the similarities between them. Indeed. It definitely has a religious flavor to it. And, as makd points out, they're much more similar to one another (Book and Inara) than maybe either of them is to anyone else on the ship.
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Post by Cal on Jun 29, 2004 8:47:56 GMT -5
Indeed. It definitely has a religious flavor to it. And, as makd points out, they're much more similar to one another (Book and Inara) than maybe either of them is to anyone else on the ship. I've got nothing to say that hasn't already been said. I will say that this is one of the best pilot episodes to a series that I've ever seen. Wonderful!
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Post by Sara on Jun 29, 2004 9:10:03 GMT -5
I've watched the pilot twice, and I think Jayne is attracted to Kaylee. He just doesn't have the social skills to appropriately express it. Dobson is your standard throwaway baddie. I tend to think when he said the thing about Kaylee wishing Simon was a ob/gyn Jayne was trying to tease Kaylee, make the kind of clever joke he thought someone like Mal might come up with; it was after Mal chastised him in front of everyone else that he got defensive and a little nastier. But the scene where he watches Kaylee's surgery definitely indicates he has some strong feelings for her. Wonder if that explains his strong antipathy toward Simon--and if the reward was the only reason he tried to get Simon and River arrested? Hmmm...
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Post by Lola m on Jun 29, 2004 10:35:25 GMT -5
Hi all! For one glorious moment this weekend, I was kinda caught up on the main board. And now I'm not. Ah, well. Very little brain function, but I did watch Serenity Part 2. And I even skimmed a bit of this thread, although I don't have any particular comments except: good point, nice catch & I didn't notice that (apply to all previous posts.) Misc. thoughts: Julia, Karen & Lola re: the theme song: I think you're right. Your interpretation(s) of "sky" in the theme song are more correct than mine. Mal *does* refer to space as the sky (and his freedom). However, I don't think this necessarily precludes the darker interpretation of the last unfinished verse, where the sky could also mean the sky above Serenity, where Mal lost everything ( There's no place I can be / Since I found Serenity / But you can't take the sky from me ...) Joss deliberately chose to have an elaborate and expensive opening battle scene after filming some pretty effective exposition (as seen in the DVD deleted scene feature.) I think the most important point of the scene was Mal's devastated expression as he realizes what's happened when he sees the Alliance ships filling the sky. (Maybe I'll change my mind again, though.) Way, way, way back in time, during Life of the Party, Lorne has a throwaway line about a new show: "It's Grapes of Wrath in outer space. Uh-huh. Oh, it's got heart. Yes, it's got laser battles. It's got a timely message of interstellar poverty. " I've wondered if it was a little in-joke referring to Firefly. Especially with all the talk about being lost in the woods. I am not really familiar with the book, so I can't really say how closely the series matches the book's themes. Is anyone familiar with it? Mal and Simon always seem to be as far apart as the widescreen allows. And yet, Mal offers him a job and safety at the end, despite all the trouble he knows will come of it. Personally, it reminds me of Buffy's decision to let Spike in for Thanksgiving dinner (without any slash that I can see, though). Simon has useful skills, just as Spike had useful information, but his being a prominent fugitive would cause more problems than the doctoring is worth. And yet, it seems like the right decision to Mal, despite the additional burden and his already strained resources. I would have liked to have seen how their relationship would have played out over the course of years. Final note: My favorite moment of the episode was when Kaylee, Book & Jayne were in the engine room, prepping for the "Crazy Ivan." Kaylee directed Jayne to cut the hydraulics, saying "This'll be real simple" as Jayne opens the control panel and exposes a mass of wires & lights. I **love** the expression on Jayne's face. Adam B. is awesome. Linda, saying good god is that the time? Eetah on your sky thoughts. I think both the lighter and the darker meanings are supposed to be there. 'Cuz Mal definitely has his dark side - he is soooo scarred from his war experiences. I hate that one of the things the network wanted was to make Mal "more fun/not so dark". He's an amazingly complex character and they wanted to make him all flat and one-dimensional. Joss should have more character freedom with the film, I would imagine. Great thinking on Lorne's mention of "Grapes of Wrath" in outer space. I hadn't thought of that connection at all! I would just bet that was a reference to Firefly. It would fit that description pretty well. The folks forced off their land and making a long journey, encountering scoundrels and innocents along the way. Yup. I can see it. Hmmm. 'Nother eetah from me on the look on Jayne's face when Kaylee is all "now it's real simple". And just before, when she's going "Look. Look! Where I'm pointing!" Hee, hee. He's like a dog running around trying to follow her commands and she's trying to be all sweet about it. Lola - who actually thinks Kaylee and Jayne might have made a kind of cute couple.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 29, 2004 10:38:09 GMT -5
I've got nothing to say that hasn't already been said. I will say that this is one of the best pilot episodes to a series that I've ever seen. Wonderful! Yup. Every time I watch it I am amazed anew at how much he fit into this pilot. It's as good as, heck it's better than, a lot of the movies out there - and it was meant to be just the start for a whole lot more to come. Makes me anticipate the movie even more. **feeling bouncy now** Lola
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Post by Cal on Jun 29, 2004 11:05:26 GMT -5
Yup. Every time I watch it I am amazed anew at how much he fit into this pilot. It's as good as, heck it's better than, a lot of the movies out there - and it was meant to be just the start for a whole lot more to come. Makes me anticipate the movie even more. **feeling bouncy now** Lola I can't wait for the movie! I think it's going to be amazing.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 29, 2004 14:49:02 GMT -5
Interesting lines that Inara and Mal say. When she is talking to Simon and says: "You're lost in the woods. We all are, even the captain. He just likes it that way." Mal is standing in the door and says: "Woods are the only place I can see a see a clear path." Along with all the very obvious "Western" elements in the second half of Serenity (the meet on Whitefall, with the horses and the ambush and all), this line of Mal's really made me see the parallel with these folks and post-Civil War America that Matthew was talking about. 'Cuz that is such a frontier kind of thing to say. Like Daniel Boone, with his "when you can see the smoke from your neighbor's chimney, it's time to move farther out". Which, I know, is actually from an earlier historical time, but still has that classic "frontier" feel to it, ya know? (And did any of that make sense at all? I think I am using some of Rachael's mangled fly brains instead of my own scrambled - but not usually this scrambled - ones.) Lola
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Post by Queen E on Jun 29, 2004 16:24:17 GMT -5
Yup. Every time I watch it I am amazed anew at how much he fit into this pilot. It's as good as, heck it's better than, a lot of the movies out there - and it was meant to be just the start for a whole lot more to come. Makes me anticipate the movie even more. **feeling bouncy now** Lola Right there with the bouncy myself. 2005 is a long way away.
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Post by Karen on Jun 29, 2004 18:41:47 GMT -5
Right there with the bouncy myself. 2005 is a long way away. But it will seem to get here too fast in some ways, and too slow in others. Quite bouncy myself. I agree with Cal - an excellent start to a series. At the end Mal tells Simon that he's had a good day. Simon doesn't know how that can be, seeing that half the crew has been shot up, including him. But Mal says - 'We're still flying.' Simon figures that's not much. But Mal says "It's enough." I just love the hopefulness of that. Even tho Mal has lost his faith, and Kaylee has said that he needs to have faith in people, you can see that his crew is important to him. I had to catch my breath when Mal touched Inara on the shoulder to ease her concerns. He also touched Wash on the shoulder and complimented on his fine piloting. (Wash - just not for comic relief.) I too love Zoe and Wash's relationship. Also, when Kaylee reached out to Mal and told him he was a good man - you could see on his face that he wanted to believe it - and be it - for her. Like a father would look at a daughter. He even warned Kaylee not to get too far into a crush on Simon. Very father-like. And the introduction to the reavers was nail-biting worthy. I thought about "Jaws", too, like Rae, when the reaver ship came into view. And couldn't you just feel the fear from the crew - I was holding my breath when they silently passed by. Mal seemed unnecessarily cruel to Simon when he told him Kaylee was dead. But after about the 4th watching, I've come to the conclusion that it was strictly intentional and done to diffuse the crew's anger towards Simon for shooting Kaylee. Kaylee is so well loved, that Mal (I think) needed to punish him - or at least show the crew that he isn't a threat or even to be hated, in order to allow him to become part of the crew. Later, Mal even invites Simon to stay on with the Serenity crew, because it would be "safer". There is so much going on in this episode. I love reading all your insights.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 29, 2004 19:16:47 GMT -5
But it will seem to get here too fast in some ways, and too slow in others. Quite bouncy myself. I agree with Cal - an excellent start to a series. At the end Mal tells Simon that he's had a good day. Simon doesn't know how that can be, seeing that half the crew has been shot up, including him. But Mal says - 'We're still flying.' Simon figures that's not much. But Mal says "It's enough." I just love the hopefulness of that. Even tho Mal has lost his faith, and Kaylee has said that he needs to have faith in people, you can see that his crew is important to him. I had to catch my breath when Mal touched Inara on the shoulder to ease her concerns. He also touched Wash on the shoulder and complimented on his fine piloting. (Wash - just not for comic relief.) I too love Zoe and Wash's relationship. Also, when Kaylee reached out to Mal and told him he was a good man - you could see on his face that he wanted to believe it - and be it - for her. Like a father would look at a daughter. He even warned Kaylee not to get too far into a crush on Simon. Very father-like. And the introduction to the reavers was nail-biting worthy. I thought about "Jaws", too, like Rae, when the reaver ship came into view. And couldn't you just feel the fear from the crew - I was holding my breath when they silently passed by. Mal seemed unnecessarily cruel to Simon when he told him Kaylee was dead. But after about the 4th watching, I've come to the conclusion that it was strictly intentional and done to diffuse the crew's anger towards Simon for shooting Kaylee. Kaylee is so well loved, that Mal (I think) needed to punish him - or at least show the crew that he isn't a threat or even to be hated, in order to allow him to become part of the crew. Later, Mal even invites Simon to stay on with the Serenity crew, because it would be "safer". There is so much going on in this episode. I love reading all your insights. Love the hopefulness in the "It's enough" line, too. For me, it was the crew's reactions that really sell the idea that the Reavers are bad, bad, bad news. Mal just freezes; Wash is going "oh God, oh God"; Zoe just closes her eyes and gets to make that stunning speech to Simon. But most of all - it was Jayne going for his guns and Inara quietly getting out something she could use to kill herself. That was just like ... oof. Gotta take this serious, now. And while they are waiting for the ship to go by, Mal is subtly doing more "fatherly/taking care of crew" stuff. Like he distracts Wash from obsessively watching the ship by directing him back to his instruments. Hadn't thought of Mal using the joke on Simon in quite that way. Very clever thought, Karen. It really makes sense, doesn't it? On a small ship like that, with long times between planet fall - it would be really important for Mal to work at diffusing tensions, keeping people from boiling over. Lola
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