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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Feb 9, 2008 19:53:03 GMT -5
Hmph. Part of what we need to fix, as a society, is the "nowhere to shop (that we can afford) but Wal-Mart". Because I completely understand those who shop at Wal-Mart out of financial necessity, or because there's nowhere else to go. I still think they're evil. But, as Vlad says, only marginally less evil than other big chains. It's a bigger margin than I'd like in some ways, though. I mean...they wouldn't sell my sister an HPT over the counter. Heh. Anyone hear Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me today? The bit about how a study determined that the panhandlers living outside of Walmart actually make more money than the Walmart employees? (And have a similar health care plan....) Sad part is, the "make more money" bit is actually true. And then, how many people think about what it is they can really afford? Because when people get into a place where all the prices are so crazy cheap, a lot of them tend to buy a whole lot of stuff they don't actually NEED.* Oh, but that's why we're getting the "rebate" checks this spring/summer, right? So we can keep spending, spending, spending... *BTDT myself and am still paying for it.Our rebate checks are going directly into the firey inferno of the charge card balances. Or possibly the car loan. Then there will be a two month period to get the balances payed down even more so we can face the fact that we have to do some major structural repairs to the house before it falls apart. Julia, *sigh*
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 9, 2008 19:56:30 GMT -5
Nice echo chamber. Olberman, Stewart, Franken and Maher are so much more civil in their discourse than Limbaugh and Coulter, huh? Echo chamber? Don't think so. We jsut haven't got there yet and are also being "civil." But since you brought them up, my opinions: Franken: Of slightly different flavor, but in my opinion about as rabid as either Coulter or Rush. Maher: He likes to play devil's advocate when hosting a show, but sure, his own politics shine through a lot. I think ABC did him a huge disservice when they canceled Politically Incorrect for, what was in my opinion, massive BS. At least that show was populated for the most part by people that actually argued the many sides of a topic, but, also usually didn't let it get too mean. He didn't have the tendency, like Hannity or O'Reilly, to line up straw men to take pot shots at. I haven't listened to him much since then, so I don't know if this has changed. Olberman: He is capable of taking cheap shots at times. On the other hand, he does have a tendency to pull away the curtain and let the light shine where it may, and will ridicule both sides. Stewert: Doesn't deserve to be on this list at all. He pretty much takes the moderate approach, invites guests of all stripes to his show and lets them talk, often asking very pointed questions between his humor. We could do a lot worse than have more people that treated politics like he does. He definitely doesn't hesitate to show when EITHER side is jsut being wacky. Vlad Franken & Mahr are no better than Coulter when it comes to a pompous, self-righteous style. I don't know Olberman. Stewart is neither pompous nor self-righteous in style, and is respectful of his guests. Agree he doesn't belong on this list. That said, I want to acknowledge that his show has a clearly liberal bias - not saying that is wrong (it is OK for a show to have a bias, of either variety). If I had to pick someone on the left that I think is as wildly bias and full of themselves as Coulter, it would be Michael Moore.
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Post by Shan on Feb 9, 2008 19:57:38 GMT -5
*snort* And for Jason Bourne. LOL! Bourne for president! He's tired, he's pissed... and best of all all his skeletons have been conveniently "lost." He doesn't even remember them himself. Vlad Er, no. I meant at the end of the 2nd one when he's talking to the Fed lady who's been chasing him and he tells her something like: "Get some rest. You look tired."
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Post by Vlad on Feb 9, 2008 19:58:46 GMT -5
And then, how many people think about what it is they can really afford? Because when people get into a place where all the prices are so crazy cheap, a lot of them tend to buy a whole lot of stuff they don't actually NEED.* Oh, but that's why we're getting the "rebate" checks this spring/summer, right? So we can keep spending, spending, spending... *BTDT myself and am still paying for it.I try to stick to my list, but it isn't easy. On the other hand, if I do overbuy, it tends to be books and craft supplies and presents. Our "rebate" is going into savings, if at all possible, until we find out how the government plans to adjust our 2008 tax returns to compensate for it. BTDT last time. So true! And jsut like Huckabee and Paul both stated in the debates "How is this "rebate" gonna help our economy? We get a few hundred dollars (not even a months rent or mortgage!) and we are supposed to spend it, so we go buy 4 pair of shoes made in China... and our money is right over there.. again, even faster. One of the few things Huckabee is right on about is: we need to create jobs and rebuild infrastructure in this country. It may be a pipe dream or too late, but how is not doing these things ever going to improve us? Vlad
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 9, 2008 19:59:51 GMT -5
*snort* And for Jason Bourne. LOL! Bourne for president! He's tired, he's pissed... and best of all all his skeletons have been conveniently "lost." He doesn't even remember them himself. Vlad
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Post by Vlad on Feb 9, 2008 20:00:39 GMT -5
LOL! Bourne for president! He's tired, he's pissed... and best of all all his skeletons have been conveniently "lost." He doesn't even remember them himself. Vlad Er, no. I meant at the end of the 2nd one when he's talking to the Fed lady who's been chasing him and he tells her something like: "Get some rest. You look tired." Oh. Well, I never have been one to let misunderstanding stop me! Bourne for President anyway. Vlad
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Post by Vlad on Feb 9, 2008 20:07:26 GMT -5
Echo chamber? Don't think so. We jsut haven't got there yet and are also being "civil." But since you brought them up, my opinions: Franken: Of slightly different flavor, but in my opinion about as rabid as either Coulter or Rush. Maher: He likes to play devil's advocate when hosting a show, but sure, his own politics shine through a lot. I think ABC did him a huge disservice when they canceled Politically Incorrect for, what was in my opinion, massive BS. At least that show was populated for the most part by people that actually argued the many sides of a topic, but, also usually didn't let it get too mean. He didn't have the tendency, like Hannity or O'Reilly, to line up straw men to take pot shots at. I haven't listened to him much since then, so I don't know if this has changed. Olberman: He is capable of taking cheap shots at times. On the other hand, he does have a tendency to pull away the curtain and let the light shine where it may, and will ridicule both sides. Stewert: Doesn't deserve to be on this list at all. He pretty much takes the moderate approach, invites guests of all stripes to his show and lets them talk, often asking very pointed questions between his humor. We could do a lot worse than have more people that treated politics like he does. He definitely doesn't hesitate to show when EITHER side is jsut being wacky. Vlad Franken & Mahr are no better than Coulter when it comes to a pompous, self-righteous style. I don't know Olberman. Stewart is neither pompous nor self-righteous in style, and is respectful of his guests. Agree he doesn't belong on this list. That said, I want to acknowledge that his show has a clearly liberal bias - not saying that is wrong (it is OK for a show to have a bias, of either variety). If I had to pick someone on the left that I think is as wildly bias and full of themselves as Coulter, it would be Michael Moore. I agree with you on Moore, but didn't bring him up because I was responding directly to Sharky's question of those specific 4 guys. Tho' I did mention Hannity and O'Reilly, but that was only for an example and the fact they are both doing the same jobs. Moore is a film maker. And I agree with you, bias is perfectly okay on an opinion based talk show, which is what all these guys do. But being bombastic? Being uncivil? I guess they have a right to it, this is hte US. It doesn't mean I have to like or watch them, or not to stand up to them when I think they are doing us all harm. Vlad
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Post by Rachael on Feb 9, 2008 20:09:26 GMT -5
And then, how many people think about what it is they can really afford? Because when people get into a place where all the prices are so crazy cheap, a lot of them tend to buy a whole lot of stuff they don't actually NEED.* Oh, but that's why we're getting the "rebate" checks this spring/summer, right? So we can keep spending, spending, spending... *BTDT myself and am still paying for it.I try to stick to my list, but it isn't easy. On the other hand, if I do overbuy, it tends to be books and craft supplies and presents. Our "rebate" is going into savings, if at all possible, until we find out how the government plans to adjust our 2008 tax returns to compensate for it. BTDT last time. I'm either going to use it to finish paying off the last of the credit card debt incurred when we got married, put it in savings, or give it to a poverty charity...since if you can't make the rent, or have just lost your house, a $600 check isn't going to help with that. The stimulus package is putting money into the economy at the wrong end, IMO.
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Post by Shan on Feb 9, 2008 20:15:27 GMT -5
Nice echo chamber. Olberman, Stewart, Franken and Maher are so much more civil in their discourse than Limbaugh and Coulter, huh? I think I'll get while the getting's good. It's only an "echo chamber" if there are never any new ideas to discuss, nobody new TO discuss them. How are you going to ever talk about the red, or blue, or even the little bit purple, if you "get while the getting's good"? I mean, some of us actually considered switching political affiliations. There's a discussion right there that you're totally missing out on.
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 9, 2008 20:17:54 GMT -5
Like I said, this is not a safe place for me, I'd be chum in the waters around here. Vlad, Olberman makes a regular segment of "The Worst Person in the World." Maher lamented that Ledger died instead of Limbaugh from drug abuse. Stewart saves his sharpest barbs for the Right. There is an excess of vitriol on all sides. I want government to leave me alone as much as possible. That's a pipe dream, I know. Put the dessicated corpse of Robert Heinlein in the running and I might vote for him. My favorite talking heads are on ABC's Sunday Morning news show: George Will for the right, and George Stephanopolous for the left. Both are smart and know how to make an argument and give you food for thought. And Sharky, you are a sharp, smart guy who would never be chum, in any waters. And I hope you will stick around, because the more diverse opinions, the more fun, IMO. I think that as we go along and get used to each other, the waters will be safe and warm and fine for anyone interested in civil discourse. But, if you aren't comfy, you aren't comfy. It is definitely up to you. Stop in often, sometimes, or never - whatever makes your board experience best for you.
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Post by Shan on Feb 9, 2008 20:23:07 GMT -5
And then, how many people think about what it is they can really afford? Because when people get into a place where all the prices are so crazy cheap, a lot of them tend to buy a whole lot of stuff they don't actually NEED.* Oh, but that's why we're getting the "rebate" checks this spring/summer, right? So we can keep spending, spending, spending... *BTDT myself and am still paying for it.Our rebate checks are going directly into the firey inferno of the charge card balances. Or possibly the car loan. Then there will be a two month period to get the balances payed down even more so we can face the fact that we have to do some major structural repairs to the house before it falls apart. Julia, *sigh* Right there with ya on the debt payoff.
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Post by Rachael on Feb 9, 2008 20:23:08 GMT -5
Nice echo chamber. Olberman, Stewart, Franken and Maher are so much more civil in their discourse than Limbaugh and Coulter, huh? I think I'll get while the getting's good. I don't see an "echo chamber", here - while it's true that most of us are of similar political stripe, just to choose an obvious example - Vlad and I differ in several areas, politically. I myself would never have voted for Ron Paul, but I have respect for those who will. I just don't happen to be a libertarian, myself, and thus disagree with most of what Paul has to say. Except the bit about the war. We're only an echo chamber if we deliberately try to exclude other opinions or chase them out. I don't know from Olberman, because I make a practice of watching as little of the "news" networks as possible. Al Franken is a bit shrill at times, ayup. Bill Maher is much more balanced than Al Franken. I have been both incensed by, and in complete agreement with, Bill Maher over the years. Back when he was doing Politically Incorrect, Ann Coulter was one of his most frequent repeat guests, and he was very civil to her, even when he clearly disagreed entirely. John Stewart is a satirist, not a political commentator, persay. The fact that a large segment of America considers him a more reliable news source than the actual news speaks a lot about the news media itself, I think. As for his bias; yes, it's true that he's left of center, and doesn't hide it. However, I was watching Stewart during the Clinton years, too, and while now the harshest stuff is reserved for the right (and mostly the President), the same was true back then - the President took most of the heat from Jon Stewart. Thing is, though, as others have said, he's civil and respectful of nearly everyone who does a guest appearance on his show. He allows opinions to be heard, without shouting them down. So, yeah, if "civility of discourse" is the issue, then I think that Stewart and Maher have both got Coulter and Limbaugh beat, hands down.
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Post by Sharky on Feb 9, 2008 20:31:38 GMT -5
My favorite talking heads are on ABC's Sunday Morning news show: George Will for the right, and George Stephanopolous for the left. Both are smart and know how to make an argument and give you food for thought. And Sharky, you are a sharp, smart guy who would never be chum, in any waters. And I hope you will stick around, because the more diverse opinions, the more fun, IMO. I think that as we go along and get used to each other, the waters will be safe and warm and fine for anyone interested in civil discourse. But, if you aren't comfy, you aren't comfy. It is definitely up to you. Stop in often, sometimes, or never - whatever makes your board experience best for you. Well, we'll see. I grew up in the house of a union organizer with a mother who started life in a welfare colony. I feel strongly that people should help one another, and give as I can to help others. But, I believe that politicians of both stripes view government-directed philanthropy as their means to gain and maintain power. Most politics boil down to "take from those who would never vote for you and give to those who will."
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Post by Vlad on Feb 9, 2008 20:33:15 GMT -5
Except...OMFG, now we're getting banner ads to sign up for Ann Coulter's latest articles by email update. *facepalm* Speak of the devil... Not that I'm implying the she's the devil or anything. It's just an expression, sheesh. ;D I didn't say anything before, but, I want to say, when I read it, it made me laugh hard. Vlad
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Feb 9, 2008 20:36:51 GMT -5
Our rebate checks are going directly into the firey inferno of the charge card balances. Or possibly the car loan. Then there will be a two month period to get the balances payed down even more so we can face the fact that we have to do some major structural repairs to the house before it falls apart. Julia, *sigh* Right there with ya on the debt payoff. The only reason ours isn't going right into the credit card debt is that Paul's getting a dividend from Marge this month - that'll be enough to pay off the VISA and put a little away for emergencies. There's always an emergency. *sigh* I'm just very distrustful, based on the last "tax rebate", that we're going to have to pay the whole thing back when next spring rolls around.
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