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Post by Lola m on Apr 5, 2008 20:24:39 GMT -5
The rest aren't part of this investigation. Of course they are.
Um. Not sure that this is necessarily true, but some of them might be other rift-grabbed folk.
Classic Gwen way of working, really. She always has to immerse herself in the people, what they are like, make it personal.
Scattered thru time and space. Probably can't get them back, can't identify when it will happen again, can't stop it. Some things we can't fix. That's not gonna sit well with Gwen.
Owen and the Serenity saying. That's just . . . interesting. So, is he using that to help him adjust to being dead? As opposed to being an acoholic?
Whoa. Gwen's in serious "what does it all matter" mode. And Rhys is sort of right too. Why are you saving people, if not because of, well, life.
Sort of like what Doyle says to Angel about connecting. That his atonement can't just be helping in the abstract, he's got to engage with the people, with the world.
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Post by Sara on Apr 5, 2008 20:29:50 GMT -5
Oh yeah, Ianto totally helped her.
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Post by Sara on Apr 5, 2008 20:31:22 GMT -5
Well. This should be a fun conversation.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 5, 2008 20:33:59 GMT -5
**squeeee!** Wonderful Jack/Ianto. Cheating at hide and seek. "Coming back in? Work to do." Jack wants her to drop it. More to it, I'm thinking than just "we can't do anything". Jack hiding things? What came in the package? Ianto gave her the package? It's not just a GPS like Andy thinks? OMG! Andy wants to join up with TW? Everyone wants to join the cool kids, eh? ;D Andy is all "this is an adventure" (I mean he also truly cares and wants to find the kid, solve the thing, but . . . ). And Gwen thinks it might get more rift-y and dangerous, eh? Knows he can't come. Lighthouse! Cool. And blanket covered person, and Jack. Aha! I can smell a conspiracy now.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 5, 2008 20:43:36 GMT -5
Are these old fortifications, maybe from WWII?
Using Jack's code to get in. "Law unto himself." "He knows we'll always forgive him."
Nursing home/hospital/asylum/containment facilty thing? The little chalk name plaques on the doors are actually kind of . . . sweet . . .
All the people from the rift. And of course it's not that simple. So, how many layers of security access are there in TW? Did Ianto know about this because he's the "organize everything" guy?
That's Jonah. Ah, that's some of the consequences of being lost in time and space, aren't they.
"Watched the solar system burn, so beautiful."
Can I trust you to tell the truth. Am I really home?
She tells him about his mom, about the how much time it's been. You're safe now. Wants to see his mom.
Have they not told his mom only because of not wanting to have them learn about what's going on?
Used to be just a few, now there are more. So, Jack started this up and now it's running away from him a bit, isn't it? Can't fix them, just take care of them. Also, it's "can't explain them", isn't it?
Gwen says his mom (and others) need the truth. "Jack if you lost someone" - so this will strike a cord with him.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 5, 2008 20:55:22 GMT -5
Found him. Looking after him. Can see him, but Gwen is somber enough to tell her that things are not good. Telling Andy that mom knows and now wants him to corraborate. Using me. You'd never suggest me to TW, no I wouldn't. Ouch. So, it's harsh truth/reality day, is it? Is this mom a "test case", to see how other relatives would handle it? You understand what I've told you, he's not a child anymore, he's injured. I don't know that she can understand until she sees. How could you? And she freaks. Because she can't believe the time travel thing, really. All the memories that tell her it really is him. I'm late, tried to get home for years, so sorry. Downswing. The good phase gets shorter every day. Um. Gwen, I think you should have looked into this fully before involving the mom. Should have understood the whole picture, so you could have told her the whole picture. She should have known the full extent before she got there, not have been surprised by it. He screams for 20 hours every day? Now, Jack didn't tell her about it all. But, she also didn't ask about it all, ask to be told about the full project. So, failure all 'round then. But also failure that fits each of the characters. Gwen goes wiht her heart and her human connetion first, but doesn't always want to see the complete picture. And Jack keeps trying to hold everything all together by himself, even when he's totally swamped. I think mom is probably not gonna be able to take care of him at home. But, she could come see him in the times he lucid.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 5, 2008 21:00:42 GMT -5
And this mom can't do this. Can't come see him in just the "good times".
Not that necessarily all the relatives would feel this way. And a part of her reaction might be, frankly, that it was sprung on her without knowing beforehand.
She may change her mind and want to see him later, just just may need time to adjust to it all.
Doesn't necessarily mean the idea of involving the family members is totally wrong. But you have to handle it better than this. Not go barging in because you just want to make things all better.
Ah, Gwen. Really feeling the need to connect now. Live and learn, Gwen. This doesn't have to be all one way or the other, I'm thinking. Surely there is a middle way between Jack and Gwen?
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Post by Lola m on Apr 5, 2008 21:01:37 GMT -5
Oh yeah, Ianto totally helped her. Totally. Which just adds to the possible background story for him, eh?
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Post by Lola m on Apr 5, 2008 21:02:44 GMT -5
You'd think Jack would know better than to think saying "it's over" means Gwen will give up. Plus he definitely seemed like he was hiding something. Really! I mean, he might as well have said "hey, how'd you like to try and discover a secret, eh?".
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Post by Lola m on Apr 5, 2008 21:11:11 GMT -5
Just read Becca's brief thoughts on the episode, and I can understand your rage. But...I'm not sure we're supposed to read the mother's decision as the good one. To me, the episode was about committing to the reality of life, rather than living an illusion. That's what Rhys was saying to Gwen at the park; that her job is not about her playing the hero, living a fantasy, if you will, but rather about realizing what she's doing this for...ie, so people can continue to live and breath and breed and do all the normal things. That it has to be selfless, in some respects, rather than for the greater glory of Gwen. The mother, on the other hand, would rather have lived with the dream, searching for her son caught on tape in some crowd, rather than face the reality of his pain. It's one thing to care for a son that's cute and popular and athletic; it's another to care for one that is broken and burnt and insane...but that son needs it more, and she didn't have it to give. Gwen made the opposite choice, at the end of the episode; she shared with Rhys the pain of what happened, and yet opened the dialogue to make a choice for hope...and for someone in her position, with what she's seen, knowing what happens all the time in Cardiff, a decision to have a child would be a vote for the idea that there is something in their relationship, and in the world, that is worth the risk and pain. The risk and pain that the mother in this episode didn't choose to take on. Well said, Erin. And sort of redeemed this episode for me a bit. Because I was so angry at Jack for not just telling Gwen from the beginning what he was up to. He hired her for her investigative skills, yes? Then he thinks she's NOT going to investigate something just because he tells her not to? *throws things in frustration* And I'm also a little angry at Ianto. He must have known what Jack was up to, else how else would he have been able to provide the GPS coordinates for Gwen? So why didn't he warn her in any way about what she would find? And THEN I got angry at Gwen for only doing a half-asss investigation before dragging the grieving mother to the facility. She couldn't have asked the nurse/caretaker lady what kind of symptoms Jonah had as a result of his trip through the Rift? And the nurse never said a word when the mother was led into the room, but then after the tearful reunion, the nurse decides to come in and say that she has to LEAVE!!!!!!! WTF? GAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I'm getting angry all over again!!!!!!!!! *takes deep breaths to calm down* But uh yes, the nekkid Ianto/Jack scene was hot. ;D ETA: Where can I find Becca's review? I think Jack doesn't know what the hell to do and is sort of . . . paddling in place. Also, I assume they are treating/helping as best they can. We are limited in what we know because we don't see the fully picture. I mean, they do have staff there who appear to know a bit about the folks there. (Although, yes, I wonder why retcon couldn't be tried. Then again, we don't know for sure what they've tried and how it has worked or not . . .) Perhaps with this happening to more people, and with more people knowing about it (like Gwen), they can beging a dialogue about what to do now. Also, I think the mom is still in shock. Not that she necessarily will change her mind. Some people would be able to cope, some would not. That's . . . human, I guess. And her one reaction doesn't necessarily predict how all family would react.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 5, 2008 21:12:58 GMT -5
Just read Becca's brief thoughts on the episode, and I can understand your rage. But...I'm not sure we're supposed to read the mother's decision as the good one. To me, the episode was about committing to the reality of life, rather than living an illusion. That's what Rhys was saying to Gwen at the park; that her job is not about her playing the hero, living a fantasy, if you will, but rather about realizing what she's doing this for...ie, so people can continue to live and breath and breed and do all the normal things. That it has to be selfless, in some respects, rather than for the greater glory of Gwen. The mother, on the other hand, would rather have lived with the dream, searching for her son caught on tape in some crowd, rather than face the reality of his pain. It's one thing to care for a son that's cute and popular and athletic; it's another to care for one that is broken and burnt and insane...but that son needs it more, and she didn't have it to give. Gwen made the opposite choice, at the end of the episode; she shared with Rhys the pain of what happened, and yet opened the dialogue to make a choice for hope...and for someone in her position, with what she's seen, knowing what happens all the time in Cardiff, a decision to have a child would be a vote for the idea that there is something in their relationship, and in the world, that is worth the risk and pain. The risk and pain that the mother in this episode didn't choose to take on. Oooh, good thoughts. I particularly like the connection of the two storylines.
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Post by Sara on Apr 5, 2008 21:49:34 GMT -5
Just read Becca's brief thoughts on the episode, and I can understand your rage. But...I'm not sure we're supposed to read the mother's decision as the good one. To me, the episode was about committing to the reality of life, rather than living an illusion. That's what Rhys was saying to Gwen at the park; that her job is not about her playing the hero, living a fantasy, if you will, but rather about realizing what she's doing this for...ie, so people can continue to live and breath and breed and do all the normal things. That it has to be selfless, in some respects, rather than for the greater glory of Gwen. The mother, on the other hand, would rather have lived with the dream, searching for her son caught on tape in some crowd, rather than face the reality of his pain. It's one thing to care for a son that's cute and popular and athletic; it's another to care for one that is broken and burnt and insane...but that son needs it more, and she didn't have it to give. Gwen made the opposite choice, at the end of the episode; she shared with Rhys the pain of what happened, and yet opened the dialogue to make a choice for hope...and for someone in her position, with what she's seen, knowing what happens all the time in Cardiff, a decision to have a child would be a vote for the idea that there is something in their relationship, and in the world, that is worth the risk and pain. The risk and pain that the mother in this episode didn't choose to take on. Oooh, good thoughts. I particularly like the connection of the two storylines.
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Apr 5, 2008 23:06:17 GMT -5
Owen and the Serenity saying. That's just . . . interesting. So, is he using that to help him adjust to being dead? As opposed to being an acoholic? I had a fic-theory that one reason for the change in Owen's behaviour between seasons was him sorting out his drinking, realising that going drinking and then shooting his boss could be considered a bit cause and effect and maybe cutting down on the drink part. And then the worst Owenish excesses went away a bit as he spent less time drunk or hungover at work. So... as well as, rather than opposed. But it's not so much useful as a canon interpretation. Also, the serenity prayer is available on jewelry, or was, so it might not be a delieberate association
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Post by artemis on Apr 6, 2008 10:52:01 GMT -5
i'm not sure yet what to think of this episode. my strongest initial impression is that i don't really fully understand exactly what jack was thinking in the way he behaved in this episode, most especially when he let gwen bring nikki to see her son without telling gwen about his screaming. maybe he didn't know about it. i don't know.
now to read your posts...
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Post by artemis on Apr 6, 2008 11:09:11 GMT -5
Well said, Erin. And sort of redeemed this episode for me a bit. Because I was so angry at Jack for not just telling Gwen from the beginning what he was up to. He hired her for her investigative skills, yes? Then he thinks she's NOT going to investigate something just because he tells her not to? *throws things in frustration* yeah, that baffled me, too. of course telling her to let it go was just going to make her more stubborn about finding out what's going on! yeah - like i said in my first post, i was angry at jack for not warning her - but you're right - gwen probably should have thought it through more herself before making such a decision. but i think erin is right too that the mother's wish to live with the illusion of what her son used to be instead of the reality of what had happened to him is anger-making, too. it's comparably easy to love and care for somebody when things are good. for some reason, it reminded me of after glory mind-sucked tara - it was easy for willow to commit to tara when things were good, but her decision to take care of her after she was mostly incapacitated said a lot more about willow's personality and commitment. ;D i agree with everybody - it's about time. maybe somebody said this in a post i haven't read yet, but when jack called ianto back to "work," and ianto lingered talking to gwen for a minute after jack left, it looked like jack had taken his shirt off in his office in the background. ("is that what they're calling it these days?") did anybody else see that, or am i just totally imagining it?
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