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Post by Queen E on Nov 30, 2010 22:20:31 GMT -5
Oh, it's good to see you! I'd be interested in your take on the season so far: Dark and interesting? Or taking too long to get going? I'm loving it! I really need to go back through and rewatch every episode all at once to get a better feel of what I think of the season. I'll probably do that during Hellatus. I think they've really delivered on what they promised--a very noir feel and getting back to the MOTW, but still hanging onto the general story arc. They've scaled it back from last season's end-of-the-world not a bang but a whimper errors, which is a very good thing, IMO. Sam's storyline is FANTASTIC. And Jared is doing a phenomenal acting job. I've never been a big fan of his acting abilities, so I'm really happy he's been able to stretch himself and show a range this season. I'm loving the whole family/alpha thing, and I can't wait to see where they're going with it. I don't like the Campbells, but I really wasn't expecting to like them. Dean's storyline has me intrigued. I'm not a fan of the Dean/Lisa OTP thing, but I think the writers' point is that Dean is having to learn that that apple pie lifestyle really isn't for him and what will make him happiest. At least, that's what I'm hoping they're doing with it. I think he loves Lisa, but he's not IN love with her, and he's slowly realizing that life's not for him (at least, I hope that's not just in my fantasies ). I haven't enjoyed the lack of Castiel so far, but I understand the reason for it and look forward to more Cas in the second half of the season. And I'm still not liking the animosity that Dean still exhibits towards Cas--there needs to be an airing of feelings to get this all out in the open and get them past it. They were forging a great friendship in season 4 and first half of season 5, I wish they could go back to that. Or at least keep Dean from acting as if he hates Cas. So, that's all my instant, distracted-because-I'm-at-work opinions of the season. What are your feelings on the season? Well, it's interesting because I've been watching some of the older episodes that I didn't rewatch when I was working on my article, and I have to say that I am constantly surprised by Jensen Ackles' skills. JP has gotten a lot better, but often in the earlier seasons he either went way too big, or not big enough. So maybe it's his instincts that have gotten better. (I'm thinking in particular of "Heart" in which Sam was supposed to be the one you're sad for, but Dean is the one who ends up being the heartbreaker). As for this season, I think the tone has been a bit uneven, but I like the throughline and I think when I rewatch it as a whole, it's going to come across much better. I'd love to write about, someday, how working for Heaven and working for the King of Hell is not really that different. And I think the Dean/Cas thing? Is less animosity and more a projection of his anger at the higher forces that manipulated him and treated him badly; they treated Cas badly as well, so angry disappointment is the emotion I get from their interactions... like he views Cas as going back to an abusive situation.
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Post by Queen E on Dec 7, 2010 11:25:20 GMT -5
A very cogent analysis by Maureen Ryan about both "Caged Heat" and the season so far. Caged Heat
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Post by Lola m on Dec 8, 2010 22:04:51 GMT -5
A very cogent analysis by Maureen Ryan about both "Caged Heat" and the season so far. Caged HeatVery cool/interesting analysis. And, yes, I agree with a lot of the points - "The road to Hell isn't paved with good intentions. It's paved with the shards of the Winchesters' belief system." Thanks for the link, Erin!
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Post by Squeemonster on Dec 9, 2010 17:28:09 GMT -5
A very cogent analysis by Maureen Ryan about both "Caged Heat" and the season so far. Caged HeatYeah, I always love Mo's reviews. And more often than not I end up agreeing with her about almost everything.
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Post by Squeemonster on Dec 9, 2010 17:32:12 GMT -5
I'm loving it! I really need to go back through and rewatch every episode all at once to get a better feel of what I think of the season. I'll probably do that during Hellatus. I think they've really delivered on what they promised--a very noir feel and getting back to the MOTW, but still hanging onto the general story arc. They've scaled it back from last season's end-of-the-world not a bang but a whimper errors, which is a very good thing, IMO. Sam's storyline is FANTASTIC. And Jared is doing a phenomenal acting job. I've never been a big fan of his acting abilities, so I'm really happy he's been able to stretch himself and show a range this season. I'm loving the whole family/alpha thing, and I can't wait to see where they're going with it. I don't like the Campbells, but I really wasn't expecting to like them. Dean's storyline has me intrigued. I'm not a fan of the Dean/Lisa OTP thing, but I think the writers' point is that Dean is having to learn that that apple pie lifestyle really isn't for him and what will make him happiest. At least, that's what I'm hoping they're doing with it. I think he loves Lisa, but he's not IN love with her, and he's slowly realizing that life's not for him (at least, I hope that's not just in my fantasies ). I haven't enjoyed the lack of Castiel so far, but I understand the reason for it and look forward to more Cas in the second half of the season. And I'm still not liking the animosity that Dean still exhibits towards Cas--there needs to be an airing of feelings to get this all out in the open and get them past it. They were forging a great friendship in season 4 and first half of season 5, I wish they could go back to that. Or at least keep Dean from acting as if he hates Cas. So, that's all my instant, distracted-because-I'm-at-work opinions of the season. What are your feelings on the season? Well, it's interesting because I've been watching some of the older episodes that I didn't rewatch when I was working on my article, and I have to say that I am constantly surprised by Jensen Ackles' skills. JP has gotten a lot better, but often in the earlier seasons he either went way too big, or not big enough. So maybe it's his instincts that have gotten better. (I'm thinking in particular of "Heart" in which Sam was supposed to be the one you're sad for, but Dean is the one who ends up being the heartbreaker). As for this season, I think the tone has been a bit uneven, but I like the throughline and I think when I rewatch it as a whole, it's going to come across much better. I'd love to write about, someday, how working for Heaven and working for the King of Hell is not really that different. And I think the Dean/Cas thing? Is less animosity and more a projection of his anger at the higher forces that manipulated him and treated him badly; they treated Cas badly as well, so angry disappointment is the emotion I get from their interactions... like he views Cas as going back to an abusive situation. Yeah, I can see that about their relationship right now. I think if it were written a bit better it'd be more believable that that's Dean's motivations for his attitude towards Cas. It's just so frustrating that it seems like Dean can barely tolerate the presence of Cas. And it's seemed that way for almost a season and a half now, give or take. I know I expect too much, given what I'm really wanting to see happen, but still. It's a shame that a friendship that had so much potential has devolved into "What has Cas done for Dean lately?"
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Post by Queen E on Apr 16, 2011 20:27:06 GMT -5
Hey Monnie:
"You know, the one in the dirty trench coat whose in love with you."
I'm assuming there was squee.
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Post by Squeemonster on Apr 17, 2011 21:47:00 GMT -5
Hey Monnie: "You know, the one in the dirty trench coat whose in love with you." I'm assuming there was squee. All of the dogs in my county as well as all neighboring counties have filed suit over the damage caused to their ears by all my squeeing. WE ARE CANON, BAYBEE! \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/ And speaking of this ep (which I loved, btw LOVED), I need to gather and post my thoughts of what I think may be happening for the rest of the season. I think there is going to be a big blowout in regards to Cas and all these mysterious regrettable things he's doing. I am praying wiht all my being that it will be as spectacular and gut-wrenching but ultimately redeeming as I'm thinking it will be. I HAVE THEORIES.
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Post by Queen E on May 8, 2011 13:42:34 GMT -5
Well, that was...epic.
A few points that spring to mind:
1) It's a bit rich for any of them (Dean, Sam, and Bobby) to give anyone shit about deals with the devil UNLESS it is coming from the "don't make the mistake I did" place. Even richer? Sam lecturing anyone about trust.
2) From an academic standpoint, it's interesting how they incorporated both evolution and biblical events.
3) Favorite line: "Who heaven is this?" "Ken Lay's." "I still question his inclusion here."
4) Favorite meta moment: Demon Bobby Singer, aka Ellsworth? Was apparently the name of the guy Jim Beaver played on Deadwood.
5) Stupid slip up of Cas, with the Superman remark. So dumb, in fact, that I wonder if he actually WANTED to be caught.
6) Supernatural got renewed!! This episode does make me concerned, however, that Castiel didn't...
7) Re Dean/Cas? I'm not the type to see hoyay everywhere, but the last time I saw it laid on this thick? Logan and Weevil on Veronica Mars. ETA: I take that back, as upon momentary reflection, it occurs to me that Ten/Simm!Master were, bar none, the most HoYay couple ever. Dean and Cas...getting there.
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Post by Squeemonster on May 9, 2011 17:03:06 GMT -5
Well, that was...epic. A few points that spring to mind: 1) It's a bit rich for any of them (Dean, Sam, and Bobby) to give anyone shit about deals with the devil UNLESS it is coming from the "don't make the mistake I did" place. Even richer? Sam lecturing anyone about trust. 2) From an academic standpoint, it's interesting how they incorporated both evolution and biblical events. 3) Favorite line: "Who heaven is this?" "Ken Lay's." "I still question his inclusion here." 4) Favorite meta moment: Demon Bobby Singer, aka Ellsworth? Was apparently the name of the guy Jim Beaver played on Deadwood. 5) Stupid slip up of Cas, with the Superman remark. So dumb, in fact, that I wonder if he actually WANTED to be caught. 6) Supernatural got renewed!! This episode does make me concerned, however, that Castiel didn't... 7) Re Dean/Cas? I'm not the type to see hoyay everywhere, but the last time I saw it laid on this thick? Logan and Weevil on Veronica Mars. ETA: I take that back, as upon momentary reflection, it occurs to me that Ten/Simm!Master were, bar none, the most HoYay couple ever. Dean and Cas...getting there. I don't have time right now to really respond to your points--I will try to remember to do so later. But until then, here's my LJ post on my thoughts on the ep: I love Ben Edlund
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Post by Queen E on May 22, 2011 0:25:18 GMT -5
Well, that was...whoa.
I don't quite know what to think. I think my brain is scrambled.
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Post by Karen on May 23, 2011 10:11:27 GMT -5
Well, that was...whoa. I don't quite know what to think. I think my brain is scrambled. You and Cas's brain both! Mine, too! What struck me was how meek Dean sounded when he was apologizing to Cas and suggesting he put the souls back, and that was before Cas's big announcement. But it WAS after Raphael's demise....which by the way, did you notice that Raphael made a 'splat'and not a burn wing spot? Misha NAILED the scene, tho, because during his speech, all I could think of was that he might as well say 'Bow down before me.' And then he said it! Whoa, indeed!
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Post by Queen E on May 23, 2011 11:35:11 GMT -5
Well, that was...whoa. I don't quite know what to think. I think my brain is scrambled. You and Cas's brain both! Mine, too! What struck me was how meek Dean sounded when he was apologizing to Cas and suggesting he put the souls back, and that was before Cas's big announcement. But it WAS after Raphael's demise....which by the way, did you notice that Raphael made a 'splat'and not a burn wing spot? Misha NAILED the scene, tho, because during his speech, all I could think of was that he might as well say 'Bow down before me.' And then he said it! Whoa, indeed! It was a bit of an eye-for-an-eye moment; Raphael killed Cas the same way in "Lucifer Rising"; remember Chuck saying "Is that a tooth in my hair?" And, of course, Lucifer did the same thing to Cas in "Swan Song." Poor Cas, getting exploded all the time. Here are a couple complaints about the season and its ending: 1) Sam's memory wall was hyped basically turning him into a vegetable if it came down. He seemed shaky but mobile, and somehow manged to get from South Dakota to Cas/Crowley's secret hideaway really quickly. 2) As these past few episodes proved (to me, at least), the war for heaven was a much more compelling storyline. Why did they not focus more on that throughout? Because it felt a bit rushed at the end. And now my inner feminist comes out. Because, why I think my complaints are valid, I have a HUGE problem with how some commentary seems to focus on Sera Gamble's showrunning capabilities in a very gendered way, much the same as they did with Marti Noxon; ie, what is good about the season is down to Whedon/Kripke (or Edlund), and what bad is laid at the feet of Gamble/Noxon. I think that sucks.
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Post by Karen on May 23, 2011 22:18:18 GMT -5
You and Cas's brain both! Mine, too! What struck me was how meek Dean sounded when he was apologizing to Cas and suggesting he put the souls back, and that was before Cas's big announcement. But it WAS after Raphael's demise....which by the way, did you notice that Raphael made a 'splat'and not a burn wing spot? Misha NAILED the scene, tho, because during his speech, all I could think of was that he might as well say 'Bow down before me.' And then he said it! Whoa, indeed! It was a bit of an eye-for-an-eye moment; Raphael killed Cas the same way in "Lucifer Rising"; remember Chuck saying "Is that a tooth in my hair?" And, of course, Lucifer did the same thing to Cas in "Swan Song." Poor Cas, getting exploded all the time. Here are a couple complaints about the season and its ending: 1) Sam's memory wall was hyped basically turning him into a vegetable if it came down. He seemed shaky but mobile, and somehow manged to get from South Dakota to Cas/Crowley's secret hideaway really quickly. 2) As these past few episodes proved (to me, at least), the war for heaven was a much more compelling storyline. Why did they not focus more on that throughout? Because it felt a bit rushed at the end. And now my inner feminist comes out. Because, why I think my complaints are valid, I have a HUGE problem with how some commentary seems to focus on Sera Gamble's showrunning capabilities in a very gendered way, much the same as they did with Marti Noxon; ie, what is good about the season is down to Whedon/Kripke (or Edlund), and what bad is laid at the feet of Gamble/Noxon. I think that sucks. Ah..the eye for and eye explanation...I had forgotten about that. Thanks! I am glad I don't read the commentary except for here. And I agree that the end seemed a bit rushed and the war for heaven could've been the focus of the season.
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Post by Queen E on May 24, 2011 0:22:59 GMT -5
It was a bit of an eye-for-an-eye moment; Raphael killed Cas the same way in "Lucifer Rising"; remember Chuck saying "Is that a tooth in my hair?" And, of course, Lucifer did the same thing to Cas in "Swan Song." Poor Cas, getting exploded all the time. Here are a couple complaints about the season and its ending: 1) Sam's memory wall was hyped basically turning him into a vegetable if it came down. He seemed shaky but mobile, and somehow manged to get from South Dakota to Cas/Crowley's secret hideaway really quickly. 2) As these past few episodes proved (to me, at least), the war for heaven was a much more compelling storyline. Why did they not focus more on that throughout? Because it felt a bit rushed at the end. And now my inner feminist comes out. Because, why I think my complaints are valid, I have a HUGE problem with how some commentary seems to focus on Sera Gamble's showrunning capabilities in a very gendered way, much the same as they did with Marti Noxon; ie, what is good about the season is down to Whedon/Kripke (or Edlund), and what bad is laid at the feet of Gamble/Noxon. I think that sucks. Ah..the eye for and eye explanation...I had forgotten about that. Thanks! I am glad I don't read the commentary except for here. And I agree that the end seemed a bit rushed and the war for heaven could've been the focus of the season. Well, I can say that I praise them for their ambition, even if I fault them for their execution. They had three big lines running through: 1) Sam's soullessness, 2) The Mother of All, and 3) Raphael vs. Cas for control of heaven. They were connected, yes, but the connections weren't really strong enough. For instance, in "Appointment in Samarra," Death told Dean it was all about souls. That was a nice bit of foreshadowing. But the three storylines didn't blend as well as they should. Maybe if they could have connected them more explicitly: make Sam's soul much more an element in discovering purgatory, or maybe even the key that opens the door. Or more foreshadowing you could point to that might not have made the Cas/Crowley thing such a surprise. I sound like I'm bitching a lot, and I really did enjoy the season, but I can't help applying what I call the Buffy Test to shows that seem to come close to attention to continuity and well-thought-out story arcs. Joss and Co. did such a great job of foreshadowing and paying off arcs, as well as having excellent continuity, that it kind of spoiled me. For instance, if you watch the seventh episode of any season of Buffy, it pretty much lays out the major concerns of the whole season that you can really only see once they've played out, without beating you around the head with it. SPN doesn't really follow that pattern, but they've done a pretty decent job in laying the groundwork of the central concerns of a season: Season 1: finding their dad; Season 2: finding and killing Azazel; Season 3: saving Dean from hell; Season 4: Saving Sam from himself (and when I went back to Season 3, I realized they did a pretty good job of setting up Ruby as ambiguous enough to go either way; once you know her game plan in "Lucifer Rising," her "I can save Dean/I can't save Dean" weirdness makes sense); Season 5: stopping the apocalypse. Season 6 just felt a bit out of joint. Having spent all this time complaining, I am interested to see what Season 7 brings; how they deal with Castiel as god, and what the show is really saying about free will/destiny/religion etc.
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Post by Queen E on May 29, 2011 16:30:14 GMT -5
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