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Post by Queen E on Jul 18, 2005 10:58:06 GMT -5
For any and all HP discussion!
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Post by Pixi on Jul 19, 2005 8:46:39 GMT -5
Helllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooo!!!!!
Well this is an empty thread at this point.
I'll start. I loved this book. Much more than I liked the last one. Great opening scene with the Prime Minister, then the chill-inducing scene with Snape and then a plunge into Harry/Dumbledore goodness.
I assume no one is reading this thread who hasn't finished the book so may I say great, great, ending.
I loved all the layers they added to Draco's character.
And I have to say - I'm skeptical that Snape is a baddie. I think Dumbledore may have wanted Snape to kill him. Maybe something to do with the mysterious poison/liquid? I don't know - I just have faith in Dumbledore and I would have a hard time believing he was so wrong about Snape.
I did not guess the identity of the Half-Blood Prince. But my son Hudson said - ahhh come on Mom it was a Potions book. You should have got it from that.
Interesting that from the time Riddle wanted the Dark Arts position, the teacher has only lasted one year.
I loved the fact that Fleur stayed with Bill even when he was scarred. Loved the way they turned that upsidedown from what you would expect.
I also loved the fact that Tonks and Lupin got together. Altogether now - awwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!
I also suspected that somewhere down the line that Ginny and Harry would match up. It just seemed inevitable alone with the Ron and Hermione matchup.
So supposed the next book is the last book? Well - she does have to stop somewhere I guess. Alot of things to wrap up though.
Finally, I really enjoyed the glimpses into Tom Riddle's/Valdemort's past. Even though he didn't make an appearance in this one his presence permeated the book. I always like villains with layers and this was very well done.
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Post by Becky H on Jul 19, 2005 9:16:53 GMT -5
Hi Pixi! I was not surprised that Dumbledore died. I'd been seeing stories about bookies taking bets on which character would die and he was their number one choice. And I was stunned! that Snape killed him. I'm still trying to convince myself that this is all part of a deep game and that Dumbledore wanted Snape to killl him and that's why he said, "please." Maybe Dumbledore knew he wouldn't recover from retrieving the Horcrux. I want Snape to be redeemed.
Speaking of redemption, I liked that Draco was given some shades of gray instead of being a melodrama villain.
And I loved, loved, loved Ginny and Harry together. And doesn't the final scene of Ron and Hermione saying to Harry that they knew what they were signing up for and could have backed out long ago remind you of the end of BtVS, with Xander and Willow sticking by Buffy to the end?
I also loved how Fleur finally convinced Mrs. Weasley that she really loved Bill. Awww.
Did you think of Defense Against the Dark Arts teachers being the equivalent of Spinal Tap drummers or is mine the only mind that works that way?
Can't wait for the next one!
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Post by Pixi on Jul 19, 2005 15:12:02 GMT -5
Hi Pixi! I was not surprised that Dumbledore died. I'd been seeing stories about bookies taking bets on which character would die and he was their number one choice. And I was stunned! that Snape killed him. I'm still trying to convince myself that this is all part of a deep game and that Dumbledore wanted Snape to killl him and that's why he said, "please." Maybe Dumbledore knew he wouldn't recover from retrieving the Horcrux. I want Snape to be redeemed. Speaking of redemption, I liked that Draco was given some shades of gray instead of being a melodrama villain. And I loved, loved, loved Ginny and Harry together. And doesn't the final scene of Ron and Hermione saying to Harry that they knew what they were signing up for and could have backed out long ago remind you of the end of BtVS, with Xander and Willow sticking by Buffy to the end? I also loved how Fleur finally convinced Mrs. Weasley that she really loved Bill. Awww. Did you think of Defense Against the Dark Arts teachers being the equivalent of Spinal Tap drummers or is mine the only mind that works that way? Can't wait for the next one! Speaking of the layers of Draco - one of the most fascinating scenes in this unveiling is the scene of his conversations with Moaning Mrytle. It's sad that the only person he had to go to and open up to is a ghost. I wonder what happens to him when he is dragged away. And truly - I was surprised to see his character opened up and given those shades of grey as he has always been thoroughly Badass/First Class Villain through and through. I wouldn't go quite so far as to give him the OPJ label but for the first time we are shown something other than a stock character.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 19, 2005 20:15:25 GMT -5
Hey, I just picked up the book from the library today, and I'm only about 25 pages into it (I don't care about spoilers), and I just wanted to say that I really loved this quote at the first chapter with Fudge and the Prime Minister:
Prime Minister: "But for heaven's sake- you're wizards! You can do magic! Surely you can sort out- well- anything!"
Fudge: "The trouble is, the other side can do magic too."
That is all for now.
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Post by Sara on Jul 20, 2005 8:50:42 GMT -5
Becky, Pixi, I'm with you in suspecting Snape is playing a deeper game than we realize at the moment. Plus it's worth remembering the Unbreakable Vow he made--Snape swore that if Draco didn't accomplish his mission, he would. Actually, now that I think about it--I wonder if Snape made an Unbreakable Vow to Dumbledore that he would help defeat Voldemort no matter what? I'd have to imagine that if one makes two such Vows, the first would supercede the second; however, Snape had to figure Draco knew about the Vow he'd made to Draco's mother--if Snape didn't follow through, then he truly would be exposed as a traitor within the Death Eaters' midst. I dunno--I, like the rest of you, can't help but believe there's more to Snape's story than meets the eye. I can't say as I'm surprised Ron and Hermione are destined for coupledom, although I always had a soft spot in my heart for a Harry/Hermione pairing. However, I also adore Ginny and am glad that Harry finally woke up and smelled the flowers where she's concerned. And can I just note how happy I am that Harry did much less yelling this time around? ETA: A big SQUEEE! over the Tonks/Lupin development. If anyone's interested, I once came across an absolutely terrific fic about the two of them that's set during Order of the Phoenix: Shifts.
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Post by Pixi on Jul 20, 2005 9:21:41 GMT -5
Becky, Pixi, I'm with you in suspecting Snape is playing a deeper game than we realize at the moment. Plus it's worth remembering the Unbreakable Vow he made--Snape swore that if Draco didn't accomplish his mission, he would. Actually, now that I think about it--I wonder if Snape made an Unbreakable Vow to Dumbledore that he would help defeat Voldemort no matter what? I'd have to imagine that if one makes two such Vows, the first would supercede the second; however, Snape had to figure Draco knew about the Vow he'd made to Draco's mother--if Snape didn't follow through, then he truly would be exposed as a traitor within the Death Eaters' midst. I dunno--I, like the rest of you, can't help but believe there's more to Snape's story than meets the eye. I can't say as I'm surprised Ron and Hermione are destined for coupledom, although I always had a soft spot in my heart for a Harry/Hermione pairing. However, I also adore Ginny and am glad that Harry finally woke up and smelled the flowers where she's concerned. And can I just note how happy I am that Harry did much less yelling this time around? ETA: A big SQUEEE! over the Tonks/Lupin development. If anyone's interested, I once came across an absolutely terrific fic about the two of them that's set during Order of the Phoenix: Shifts. You and me both! I like your idea that Snape may have done an earlier unbreakable vow with Dumbledore that superseded the second one. Interesting. Another thing that I loved was Dumbledore's funeral. Wasn't the imagery wonderful with the centaur's arrows arcing across the sky, the mermen singing and the phoenix rising? It was magnificent and beautiful and just what you would expect at a funeral like this.
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Post by Becky H on Jul 20, 2005 10:58:28 GMT -5
Becky, Pixi, I'm with you in suspecting Snape is playing a deeper game than we realize at the moment. Plus it's worth remembering the Unbreakable Vow he made--Snape swore that if Draco didn't accomplish his mission, he would. Actually, now that I think about it--I wonder if Snape made an Unbreakable Vow to Dumbledore that he would help defeat Voldemort no matter what? I'd have to imagine that if one makes two such Vows, the first would supercede the second; however, Snape had to figure Draco knew about the Vow he'd made to Draco's mother--if Snape didn't follow through, then he truly would be exposed as a traitor within the Death Eaters' midst. I dunno--I, like the rest of you, can't help but believe there's more to Snape's story than meets the eye. I can't say as I'm surprised Ron and Hermione are destined for coupledom, although I always had a soft spot in my heart for a Harry/Hermione pairing. However, I also adore Ginny and am glad that Harry finally woke up and smelled the flowers where she's concerned. And can I just note how happy I am that Harry did much less yelling this time around? ETA: A big SQUEEE! over the Tonks/Lupin development. If anyone's interested, I once came across an absolutely terrific fic about the two of them that's set during Order of the Phoenix: Shifts. Halley has my copy so I can't check the exact text but I remember reading the Unbreakable Vow and thinking that there was wiggle room to it. There was something about "as best I can," which is a weasel-out-of-it clause if ever I heard one.
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Post by Becky H on Jul 20, 2005 11:02:01 GMT -5
Another thing that I loved was Dumbledore's funeral. Wasn't the imagery wonderful with the centaur's arrows arcing across the sky, the mermen singing and the phoenix rising? It was magnificent and beautiful and just what you would expect at a funeral like this. That's where I started sniffling. When Dumbledore said "please" to Snape, I flashed on Obi-Wan allowing Darth Vader to kill him. When Harry followed McGonagal to Dumbledore's study and Dumbledore's portrait had been added to those on the wall, it occurred to me that, in a possibly very significant way, he isn't gone.
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Post by Riff on Jul 20, 2005 13:12:13 GMT -5
Another thing that I loved was Dumbledore's funeral. Wasn't the imagery wonderful with the centaur's arrows arcing across the sky, the mermen singing and the phoenix rising? It was magnificent and beautiful and just what you would expect at a funeral like this. That's where I started sniffling. When Dumbledore said "please" to Snape, I flashed on Obi-Wan allowing Darth Vader to kill him. When Harry followed McGonagal to Dumbledore's study and Dumbledore's portrait had been added to those on the wall, it occurred to me that, in a possibly very significant way, he isn't gone. Eetah on Obi-wan and Darth Vader! I don't think it's any coincidence Dumbledore tells Harry at the end of The Philospher's Stone that death is not the end. In terms of pleasing narrative flow, I didn’t love this book as much as I did the first three, but I certainly found it an improvement on the last two. I have a feeling that if Ms Rowling wrote The Philosopher’s Stone now, it would be around two thousand pages long. Having said that, it’s an enjoyable story. I thought the teenage romances were quite true to life, and amusing. And everything is progressing exactly as I have foreseen... *evil laugh* As soon as the fragmentation of Voldemort’s soul into seven pieces was mentioned, I thought something a little like this: Ah ha! Seven horcruxes, and there will be seven Harry Potter novels. It will no doubt turn out that, in each of the books, Harry has (mostly inadvertently) destroyed one of the horcruxes. In the next book it will be revealed that Voldemort cast out the final horcrux at random, protecting it by the fact that even he didn’t know where it was. We know that they can be placed in animals, so why not a person? It’s in Harry, of course! This explains the links between him and Voldemort that have been suggested ever since we found out their wands contain feathers from the same phoenix. And that is the real reason the infant Harry survived and deflected Voldemort’s curse – the Dark Lord was actually attacking himself! I felt quite pleased with myself for a few pages. Damn. ;D As for the questions about Snape etc., the most telling thing is that all of Harry’s paranoid fantasies, right down to such unlikely details as Malfoy laughing over having repaired something in the Room, turned out to be correct. There’s something wrong there. Dumbledore knew exactly what he was doing to trust Snape.
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Post by Becky H on Jul 21, 2005 19:31:43 GMT -5
Eetah on Obi-wan and Darth Vader! I don't think it's any coincidence Dumbledore tells Harry at the end of The Philospher's Stone that death is not the end. In terms of pleasing narrative flow, I didn’t love this book as much as I did the first three, but I certainly found it an improvement on the last two. I have a feeling that if Ms Rowling wrote The Philosopher’s Stone now, it would be around two thousand pages long. Having said that, it’s an enjoyable story. I thought the teenage romances were quite true to life, and amusing. And everything is progressing exactly as I have foreseen... *evil laugh* As soon as the fragmentation of Voldemort’s soul into seven pieces was mentioned, I thought something a little like this: Ah ha! Seven horcruxes, and there will be seven Harry Potter novels. It will no doubt turn out that, in each of the books, Harry has (mostly inadvertently) destroyed one of the horcruxes. In the next book it will be revealed that Voldemort cast out the final horcrux at random, protecting it by the fact that even he didn’t know where it was. We know that they can be placed in animals, so why not a person? It’s in Harry, of course! This explains the links between him and Voldemort that have been suggested ever since we found out their wands contain feathers from the same phoenix. And that is the real reason the infant Harry survived and deflected Voldemort’s curse – the Dark Lord was actually attacking himself! I felt quite pleased with myself for a few pages. Damn. ;D As for the questions about Snape etc., the most telling thing is that all of Harry’s paranoid fantasies, right down to such unlikely details as Malfoy laughing over having repaired something in the Room, turned out to be correct. There’s something wrong there. Dumbledore knew exactly what he was doing to trust Snape. Yep - narrative flow. This book didn't have the narrative urgency of one unifying storyline for me. It had lots of neat little stories (i.e. Tonks and Lupin) but no biggie like what is the Chamber of Secrets? Or what is the Philosopher's Stone? There didn't seem to be the same emphasis on discovering the identity of the Half-Blood Prince. I'm not complaining, because I did quite like the book, but it did feel to me like it was more about getting the chess pieces in place for the next game than usual.
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Post by Sara on Jul 28, 2005 22:07:11 GMT -5
Yep - narrative flow. This book didn't have the narrative urgency of one unifying storyline for me. It had lots of neat little stories (i.e. Tonks and Lupin) but no biggie like what is the Chamber of Secrets? Or what is the Philosopher's Stone? There didn't seem to be the same emphasis on discovering the identity of the Half-Blood Prince. I'm not complaining, because I did quite like the book, but it did feel to me like it was more about getting the chess pieces in place for the next game than usual. I agree. Entertainment Weekly, by the way, made an excellent case as to the identity of the mysterious R.A.B. who stole the locket Dumbledore and Harry sought: Sirius Black's deceased brother Regulus. Whoever wrote the article for the magazine remembered that when Harry and the gang were helping Sirius clean the family home in the last book, they came upon a locket that Sirius had never seen and which proved impossible to open. Wonder when Harry will remember about the locket in Grimaud Place--or that he knows of someone with the right initials.
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Post by Becky H on Jul 29, 2005 9:14:54 GMT -5
Yep - narrative flow. This book didn't have the narrative urgency of one unifying storyline for me. It had lots of neat little stories (i.e. Tonks and Lupin) but no biggie like what is the Chamber of Secrets? Or what is the Philosopher's Stone? There didn't seem to be the same emphasis on discovering the identity of the Half-Blood Prince. I'm not complaining, because I did quite like the book, but it did feel to me like it was more about getting the chess pieces in place for the next game than usual. I agree. Entertainment Weekly, by the way, made an excellent case as to the identity of the mysterious R.A.B. who stole the locket Dumbledore and Harry sought: Sirius Black's deceased brother Regulus. Whoever wrote the article for the magazine remembered that when Harry and the gang were helping Sirius clean the family home in the last book, they came upon a locket that Sirius had never seen and which proved impossible to open. Wonder when Harry will remember about the locket in Grimaud Place--or that he knows of someone with the right initials. I'd forgotten about that locket. How convenient that Harry now owns Grimaud Place.
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Post by Sharky on Aug 8, 2005 11:31:27 GMT -5
That's where I started sniffling. When Dumbledore said "please" to Snape, I flashed on Obi-Wan allowing Darth Vader to kill him. When Harry followed McGonagal to Dumbledore's study and Dumbledore's portrait had been added to those on the wall, it occurred to me that, in a possibly very significant way, he isn't gone. Eetah on Obi-wan and Darth Vader! I don't think it's any coincidence Dumbledore tells Harry at the end of The Philospher's Stone that death is not the end. In terms of pleasing narrative flow, I didn’t love this book as much as I did the first three, but I certainly found it an improvement on the last two. I have a feeling that if Ms Rowling wrote The Philosopher’s Stone now, it would be around two thousand pages long. Having said that, it’s an enjoyable story. I thought the teenage romances were quite true to life, and amusing. And everything is progressing exactly as I have foreseen... *evil laugh* As soon as the fragmentation of Voldemort’s soul into seven pieces was mentioned, I thought something a little like this: Ah ha! Seven horcruxes, and there will be seven Harry Potter novels. It will no doubt turn out that, in each of the books, Harry has (mostly inadvertently) destroyed one of the horcruxes. In the next book it will be revealed that Voldemort cast out the final horcrux at random, protecting it by the fact that even he didn’t know where it was. We know that they can be placed in animals, so why not a person? It’s in Harry, of course! This explains the links between him and Voldemort that have been suggested ever since we found out their wands contain feathers from the same phoenix. And that is the real reason the infant Harry survived and deflected Voldemort’s curse – the Dark Lord was actually attacking himself! I felt quite pleased with myself for a few pages. Damn. ;D As for the questions about Snape etc., the most telling thing is that all of Harry’s paranoid fantasies, right down to such unlikely details as Malfoy laughing over having repaired something in the Room, turned out to be correct. There’s something wrong there. Dumbledore knew exactly what he was doing to trust Snape. Yeah, I'm of the opinion that Harry's the seventh Horcrux. And, given the symbolism of Fawkes as Dumbledore's "pet", I don't think we've seen the end of Dumbledore. And, call me a Pollyanna, but I think Snape is Dumbledore's man, even yet.
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Post by Sara on Aug 8, 2005 12:38:03 GMT -5
Eetah on Obi-wan and Darth Vader! I don't think it's any coincidence Dumbledore tells Harry at the end of The Philospher's Stone that death is not the end. In terms of pleasing narrative flow, I didn’t love this book as much as I did the first three, but I certainly found it an improvement on the last two. I have a feeling that if Ms Rowling wrote The Philosopher’s Stone now, it would be around two thousand pages long. Having said that, it’s an enjoyable story. I thought the teenage romances were quite true to life, and amusing. And everything is progressing exactly as I have foreseen... *evil laugh* As soon as the fragmentation of Voldemort’s soul into seven pieces was mentioned, I thought something a little like this: Ah ha! Seven horcruxes, and there will be seven Harry Potter novels. It will no doubt turn out that, in each of the books, Harry has (mostly inadvertently) destroyed one of the horcruxes. In the next book it will be revealed that Voldemort cast out the final horcrux at random, protecting it by the fact that even he didn’t know where it was. We know that they can be placed in animals, so why not a person? It’s in Harry, of course! This explains the links between him and Voldemort that have been suggested ever since we found out their wands contain feathers from the same phoenix. And that is the real reason the infant Harry survived and deflected Voldemort’s curse – the Dark Lord was actually attacking himself! I felt quite pleased with myself for a few pages. Damn. ;D As for the questions about Snape etc., the most telling thing is that all of Harry’s paranoid fantasies, right down to such unlikely details as Malfoy laughing over having repaired something in the Room, turned out to be correct. There’s something wrong there. Dumbledore knew exactly what he was doing to trust Snape. Yeah, I'm of the opinion that Harry's the seventh Horcrux. And, given the symbolism of Fawkes as Dumbledore's "pet", I don't think we've seen the end of Dumbledore. And, call me a Pollyanna, but I think Snape is Dumbledore's man, even yet. I agree about Snape. As to the red--let's take it a step further. What if Voldemort is somehow Harry's Horcrux as well? After all, Voldemort attempted to kill Harry only to have the spell backfire on him. If the spell truly did bounce back against the caster, then in a literal sense you could say Harry attempted to kill Voldemort. Heck, it's entirely likely that it would have killed Voldemort if not for his Horcruxes--meaning baby Harry had technically performed the act necessary to create a Horcux in the first place. But then how would he have known what to do next... Yeah, I haven't completely worked this idea through.
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