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Post by Shan on Feb 22, 2009 15:44:32 GMT -5
Part of the problem with the Jackie Lyden interview is that she's on record as being a BtVS s1-3 nonshipping fan (fannish jargon, but that's the efficient way to transfer specialist knowledge, no?). I remember her commentary on the end of the series- when she was among those who hated Spike's sacrifice as a betrayal of the series' feminist principles.[/green]
Julia, I find her diegesis lacks subtlety[sarcasm] Yeah, because in order to be a true feminist one has to deny the contributions of half of the human populace? Or prove that one can do it all alone without any men? [/sarcasm] As if Joss (or any thinking human being) would be so narrow minded. Joss isn't just a feminist, he's a humanist. That's why I love his stories!
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Post by Sue on Feb 22, 2009 15:59:35 GMT -5
[sarcasm] Yeah, because in order to be a true feminist one has to deny the contributions of half of the human populace? Or prove that one can do it all alone without any men? [/sarcasm] As if Joss (or any thinking human being) would be so narrow minded. Joss isn't just a feminist, he's a humanist. That's why I love his stories! Yeah, that.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Feb 22, 2009 21:48:32 GMT -5
I concede to NPR that on the surface one COULD make a case for the "sick male fantasy" tag. After all, the dolls are all (mostly?) female, beautiful and absolutely without wills of their own. However, once you watch it you cannot help but be squicked, and Joss makes sure you know just exactly what kind of an evil is being perpetuated here.
But my goodness, how many shout outs to Buffy there were! The Tabula Rasa Effect, indeed.
It's official. I'm hooked!
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Post by Vlad on Feb 23, 2009 3:55:36 GMT -5
Feelin' a bit under the gun these days? Tired of feeling like an echo of yourself? Not sure where you are going or where you have been? Well, I have a suggestion for you. Why don't you lose yourself in the... Our dear ex-pat Erin has delivered a highly important document to our organization. This is for your eyes only. Burn after reading. If you do not have S3 clearance level 6, stop reading immediately!
Okay then, if you are still reading this, you must be approved. Erin has written the first of her reviews of dollhouse. Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to hack into the S'cubie website and download the data, codenamed: Ghost: Never Fade Away.Should you be captured, the S3 will disavow any knowledge or connection with you. Good luck, S'cubie. This post will self-destruct in 5 seconds. Vlad
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Post by Karen on Feb 23, 2009 10:52:32 GMT -5
Random thought....is anyone else wondering whether any of the dollhouse staff members might be programmed themselves? Even the programmer guy?If Alpha's objective in this episode was to give Echo's own slate back to her - or to give her a composite - I wonder why? And I wonder why he went postal in the first place and killed everyone - except Echo? Perhaps we'll get some backstory and there was a relationship of some sort, between them, either before they had their slates wiped semi-clean or some cross-pollination between multiple imprinted personalities. But did Alpha discover something, or realize something? If so, why would it necessitate the butchery? Escaping with the knowledge/memories before he got wiped again makes the most sense to me. <edit> Oh, yes! I see Sue got there before me, awesome! I was thinking about it in terms of "How do the actives' handlers work it out in their heads that what they're doing is okay in any way? What if someone worked it out FOR them...?"Oh. Good thought about the staff programming possibility. That would explain a few things - like the fleeting bewilderment on both AA's character and the tech guy when they were asked specific questions about the process. I need to rewatch with that in mind.
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Post by Rachael on Feb 23, 2009 20:15:56 GMT -5
i didn't see anything at all in this episode that definitively said it WAS a plot by alpha. it's interesting that some writers about tv are assuming it rather than entertaining it as one possibility. i think it's also a possibility that alpha killed the fake ranger guy because he was posing a threat to echo, or that there's some "lower ranked" alternate possibility like that somebody was setting it up to make the dollhouse believe it was alpha (perhaps to sow doubt among the employees, perhaps for some other reason). Agree. I wondered where he got that "was in FACT hired by Alpha" certitude. Not saying it may not be fact, just not sure we can at this moment be totally certain---unless I missed something (which is always a possibility.) Nope. It's either pure speculation or a spoiler, since nothing in this ep did anything other than indicate that Alpha was in some way responsible for the "episode".
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Post by Karen on Feb 27, 2009 13:45:44 GMT -5
I can't remember if it was in this episode or "Ghost", but did anyone else besides me flash on "Ghostbusters" when the mind wipe Techie guy took out the hard drive containing Echo's memories and it was hot and he kind of juggled it like it burned his fingers.
There was a scene in the "Ghostbusters" movie when after they captured the essence of a ghost, the machine they trapped it in was smoking.
Just put me in mind that the memories must be almost sentient - or at least that because they are the 'feeling' part that is getting removed, it is another entity.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 28, 2009 9:33:08 GMT -5
Teaser
Three Months Ago
A security breach?
Wow, they have a security force? It seems that these people could make much better use of their resources then what they are doing.
Alpha composited?
What the hell was that? Echo killed him?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 28, 2009 9:45:52 GMT -5
Part I
Adelle waxes poetic on the Dollhouse. She's seriously delusional. Or she's spent so much time doing this that's she's lost all perspective.
Is she going to keep saying "Did I fall asleep?" every time? Cause it's a nice moment, but it's going to get really old after a while.
Whoa. It's Matthew Keesler. They really made him look different. Good job.
White water rafting and mountain climbing That explains the extra insurance.
Why am I not reassured by Tech Guys reassurances?
A juice box? That's pretty heavy handed.
Back with Tahmoh.
Ah, this is the kidnappers lair. So the case from last week did attract Tahmoh's attention.
Mark Shepherd? Damn, he *really* gets around. Other guy is familiar.
Ah, that's a good point. The fingerprints of the dolls won't change even if their personalities do. I don't think that the Tech guy can do that, even if he can give them shortsightedness and asthma.
Now archery.
You're the only one who hasn't been disappointed in me. Hmm.
Ooh, nice cut. And more creepy sex.
Wait, what? What the hell was that?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 28, 2009 9:53:45 GMT -5
Part II
Handler's first day at work.
Echo is one of the most requested dolls.
Ah, so that was her handler Echo killed, and she's responsible for the scars on Amy Acker's face.
Oh, Echo didn't kill him, there was some intruder who did it?
Handler was a cop then. Interesting. I wonder if he knows Tahmoh.
Oh, Alpha killed the guy.
This guy again. How quickly is it going to take this guy to crash his car?
Back in the FBI.
Ah, the envelope that the guy had last week.
Now Echo's free climbing. This is so fucked up.
Now the park service is on their trail. Seriously, how did this operation last even three months being this sloppy? If I were to be up to no good, I would be sure to do it a lot better than this.
Oh, this guy is clearly not in the park service. Huh?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 28, 2009 10:00:47 GMT -5
Part III
Handler and Tech Guy.
That was an anomaly. O RLY?
Oh, so Alpha killed a lot of the other dolls too.
Back with Echo, running, running.
I'm guessing this NotPark Ranger is with Matthew Keesler. Are they trying to abduct Echo for their own?
Adelle and Lackey talk about Ballard.
What would happen if Echo were to just continue on with this imprint, I wonder?
Hansel and Gretl. Witches cottage in the woods. Ah, this is the real park ranger's cabin.
Oh, the canteen was poisoned. This is one sick son of a bitch.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 28, 2009 10:08:10 GMT -5
Part IV
Flashback.
Imprinting Echo onto Handler.
This is some creepy shit. Again, some more.
Back to the other creepy shit. In which the first creepy shit will probably end up being a blessing whenever Handler can find her.
Echo hallucinating.
Flashback/dream. Ooh, nice parallel there.
Tahmoh's neighbor.
No record of Caroline. So the dollhouse removed the whole paper trail. I was wondering about that. They must have connections at high levels.
Handler to the rescue. Except for the part where he gets shot.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 28, 2009 10:13:57 GMT -5
Coda
Flashback. Coming back from another engagement.
I'm getting a bit of a Truman Show vibe here. From ImprintedEcho's perspective, she's the only real thing around her. And she's being manipulated for other people's enjoyment.
Four brothers, none of them democrats. Heh.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 28, 2009 10:21:57 GMT -5
Oh, there's one more part, oops.
Coda II
Damn, they have helicopters too? How on Earth have the authorities not clued in into their existence yet if they don't keep a low profile?
Adelle and Lackey discuss the Bastard's background. Everything about him was fabricated.
Amy Acker again looking at a dead body. Guy was killed by Alpha.
Lackey acts creepy towards Echo.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 28, 2009 10:29:11 GMT -5
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh!! Eliza Hulu commercial!!! Heeeeeeeee!! I love those damn Hulu commercials. "New Samuelson." Well, that's just kind of disturbing, isn't it? And scientist guy is still disturbed by what happened. "An anomoly." Hmmmmmm. "Why not default them to ninja skills?" "We tried that." "And?" "Blood, screaming, dying." Ohhhhhhhhh, that's interesting. "She's not a girl. She's not even a person, just an empty hat. Until you stuff a rabbit into it." I really want to know how Boyd got involved with the Dollhouse? He obviously has issues with it. He's keeping Boyd alive so far at least, but Echo is in danger!! Eeeeep! Is this guy in cahoots with the hunter guy? I don't know how he can think like that, but obviously you'd have to be able to tell yourself that in order to mess that totally with people and their lives. "Well, we experimented on our blank canvases/empty hats by default programming to Ninja, but that only resulted in our losing some very valuable product, so we scrapped that plan (and those blank canvases==what a waste of time and money for us, but no apparent concern whatsoever about loss of LIFE) and now we are on to trying something else. This is a very interesting question which we are attempting to figure out to our benefit but we clearly intend to do whatever benefits us the most with no thought whatsoever regarding the 'product'." Call PETA -- animals are treated better. The mad scientist is like Willow at her worst on crack---although she was all about what made her happy. I've got to wonder what makes him tick. (Almost as if he is a product of his own technology, where someone wiped out every trace of his original humanity and programmed him to be "techo-scientist" only. Joss seems to have things to say about people who control and manipulate other people.They're turning people into robots.
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