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Post by Karen on Mar 22, 2009 10:36:45 GMT -5
Not reading. Not looking. Was out of town, haven't seen the ep. But Jim did. [Let me repeat: I was out of town and Jim came home and knew when and what channel and made it a point to watch.] He sent me this in an email: Joss rocks. Really. Headspinning fun. He also told me: "It lived up to the hype. No, actually, it was under-hyped." He had to be won over to Firefly, but now likes rewatching it. He hasn't, as yet, however, asked to start watching the Buffy episodes.... Hehe..turn 2. So...at some point do you suppose he will turn into a Joss worshipper and watch Buffy for Joss stories - not Buffy? I kind of envy that he has that in front of him.
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Post by leftylady on Mar 22, 2009 14:52:05 GMT -5
A few things I missed saying yesterday:
The “after” banter between Ballard and Mellie – delightfully fast paced and more Jossian role reversal.
“It’s not finished” - works on several levels but ….. is Echo still remembering her mission with Joel after two wipes? Will DeWitt become suspicious of the break in tabula rasa? Or is she already part of whatever is happening to Echo?
leftylady
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Post by leftylady on Mar 22, 2009 14:54:29 GMT -5
Urban legend documentary / news thingee! Nice intro. The story grows more intricet and more divisive. Oooooh, coincidental language? Joss wrote this one, so I'm thinking not so coincidental. "A mindless whore. Just your type." Damn. It this guy trying to get smacked down?What? Screaming and . . . Victor wants to pretend. Pretend they're married. The dolls don't have sex drives - that's "part of the deal". If Victor's off program - like Alpha . . . hmmmmmm. And here's a mention of the attic again. Sierra cries when they're asleep. I'm getting a not good feeling about this. I think, not Victor. I'm thinking someone else - someone in charge at the house, maybe? I like this woman at the Bureau who's helping him. She's less obsessed than him, but just as interested in making sure if something is wrong that they find out and fix it. "Rick?" "Dick." "I thought his name was Rick." "Oh, it is." Oh, snap! ;D So, what's the story he's hired her for? And holy crap! He actually found her, finds the person he's been looking for. That? I was not expecting. Good question, Lola. Makes me think that Tanaka is part of the greater conspiracy to discredit Ballard and distract him from his investigation. Part of the DH's in with TPTB? leftylady
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Post by leftylady on Mar 22, 2009 14:55:42 GMT -5
Ha! "That could be sweet for some guys." And she looks at him in a whole new light. It's oddly fascinating hearing him talk about how they build a personality to fit what they need. I mean, yes, creepy, and yet also fascinating. Wonder why you're not dead? Gonna erase me? Put me in the attic? You're disgusting! And he's right about how they're doing the same thing. Which makes them both horrible, yes? "We are in the business of using people. The question is, what is the best use for someone like you?" O.M.G. They want to use him . . . to attack the neighbor. Rape and kill her?! OMG!! This is a nice moment between these two. And she is standing in for the audience now, isn't she? Just stating straightforwardly that he should find out about hte dollhouse, because what they're doing is wrong. Oy. And now here's the plan. Send the icky guy to kill her, send Echo to kill him. Attic? not just for actives/dolls but for handlers too? leftylady
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Post by leftylady on Mar 22, 2009 15:20:49 GMT -5
Ha! "That could be sweet for some guys." And she looks at him in a whole new light. It's oddly fascinating hearing him talk about how they build a personality to fit what they need. I mean, yes, creepy, and yet also fascinating. Wonder why you're not dead? Gonna erase me? Put me in the attic? You're disgusting! And he's right about how they're doing the same thing. Which makes them both horrible, yes? "We are in the business of using people. The question is, what is the best use for someone like you?" O.M.G. They want to use him . . . to attack the neighbor. Rape and kill her?! OMG!! This is a nice moment between these two. And she is standing in for the audience now, isn't she? Just stating straightforwardly that he should find out about hte dollhouse, because what they're doing is wrong. Oy. And now here's the plan. Send the icky guy to kill her, send Echo to kill him. I've been suspecting Mellie as a Doll for a while now. When DeWitt sent Sierra's former handler out to kill her, after looking at the surveilance in her apartment, I was almost certain, for why would they have surveilance on her apartment unless she worked for them? They couldn't be certain that Ballard would fall for her unless they were working on it. The logical place to have surveilance on him was his apartment. Then I wavered for a minute, with DeWitt sending him to kill her, but the absolute contempt she held him in for raping her children (for that's what he was doing: I think she draws a strong distinction between the imprinted personalities and the resting childlike state of the Actives) made me think she was sending him out to die a horrible and poetic death. Which she confirmed later: "Not without its poetry" Now I wonder who the inside man is. Doc Saunders? Topher's prentice? Who? But was it surveillance on her apartment? I was never clear on whether that was her appartment or Ballards. I assumed it was his and was lulled into overruling my earlier suspicions of Mellie as active. Then, wham, Joss threw in a curve. Bugging his apartment made sense sense to me so that DeWitt could keep tabs on his investigation. Luring him into Mellie's apartment would take time and was not certain to work. (But maybe that was the goal of offering repeat offering leftovers.... ;D) leftylady
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Post by Sue on Mar 22, 2009 17:03:18 GMT -5
I can not even BELIEVE that I set the VCR before I left town and didn't check the time (after the DST change) and I managed to tape the Fox news and not Dollhouse.
Can.Not.Believe. I wasn't more obsessive about the time.
Anyway, I've got it online at Fox.
Had to pause 5 minutes in to post a totally off the wall guess which will probably be entirely wrong, but here goes:
I think Ballard's neighbor is Caroline's sister. She knows he's hunting the Dollhouse and thinks that's where her sister is.
This is based on the fact that she actually looks a lot like Echo.
EDIT: Well, yes then. Sort of a sister, but not in the way I was predicting.
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Post by Sue on Mar 22, 2009 17:55:39 GMT -5
If you were a writer would you really want to work alongside Joss.
Who is the MOST incredible storyteller, even when he's telling 5-6 different stories all at once.
What television exec, no matter how dense, having this episode in the can, would even bother to show episodes 1-5?
So, now I can "recruit" friends to watch by telling them: skip episodes 1-5 and go straight to 6. Having the man on the street interviews is pure genius -- sets the backstory, acknowledges the creepiness, gets people to admit to the seduction of the idea, etc.
(I mean, you can always so back and watch episodes 1-5 to make sure you know all of the back story, but THIS is the "why did I ever consider doubting Joss" episode.)
Surely Boyd is the "inside man?" (surely? maybe? ya think? could be anybody?) But I want it to be Boyd!
I like the neighbor girl a lot.
Many, many, many, layers and stories.
That was an incredible fight scene.
The story of the rich man and the woman he loved who died----fantastic. Drew me in, so sympathetic, so sad, so lovely, and her with the "it's porn isn't it?", which really a little bit it sort of was: "It is a fantasy."
What were the ratings? What have the reviewers said? What is the word on the street?
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Post by Sue on Mar 22, 2009 18:00:37 GMT -5
" You think it's not happening? You think they're not controlling you? Don't worry about it. Just sit back and wait for them to tell you what to buy." Holy Crap. This fight? Is like, damn! This is a fight. Wait a minute . . . she's telling him all about things . . . is this . . . . is this her programming? If so, by who?? If not, is there . . . is there some layer of her underneath that is doing this? Is she actually undercover or something?? "We have a person inside." "You're going about this the wrong way." Over 20 Dollhouses all over the world. Deals in fantasy, their business but not their purpose. There is a huge conspiracy!!! OMG!! OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!! Mellie is programmed too?!? "There are 3 flowers in a vase." Holy fuck. **is completely wrung out** Wow. I mean. Wow. "Imagine this technology exists. Imagine it being used. Now, imagine it being used . . . on you." And they get what they want, Ballard leaving the FBI. "I played a very bad hand very well." "I don't think they're as ignorant as they're supposed to be." Truer words never spoken, dude! Oh, what a perfect series of images! The "romantic" image of her pretending to be his wife and then, it's all sucked away again and then, the grr arrgg monster. The "sweet" fantasy that isn't very sweet, pulled away to reaveal, voila, a monster. Damn!! For some reason I just thought maybe he was talking about women, in general, with this line. No way. "They" are controlling everything: politicians, economics, advertising, media. They control everything. They tell you what to buy.It's a mysterious world-wide cabal of control! oh, oh, oh, oh, my
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Post by Sue on Mar 22, 2009 18:03:11 GMT -5
"You think it's not happening? You think they're not controlling you? Don't worry about it. Just sit back and wait for them to tell you what to buy." Holy Crap. This fight? Is like, damn! This is a fight. Wait a minute . . . she's telling him all about things . . . is this . . . . is this her programming? If so, by who?? If not, is there . . . is there some layer of her underneath that is doing this? Is she actually undercover or something?? "We have a person inside." "You're going about this the wrong way." Over 20 Dollhouses all over the world. Deals in fantasy, their business but not their purpose. There is a huge conspiracy!!! OMG!! OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!! Mellie is programmed too?!? "There are 3 flowers in a vase." Holy fuck. **is completely wrung out** Wow. I mean. Wow. " Imagine this technology exists. Imagine it being used. Now, imagine it being used . . . on you."And they get what they want, Ballard leaving the FBI. "I played a very bad hand very well." "I don't think they're as ignorant as they're supposed to be." Truer words never spoken, dude! Oh, what a perfect series of images! The "romantic" image of her pretending to be his wife and then, it's all sucked away again and then, the grr arrgg monster. The "sweet" fantasy that isn't very sweet, pulled away to reaveal, voila, a monster. Damn!! Did you know that "Truman-ism" is now an officially recognized psychological disease? People who believe that they are living like Jim Carrey in "The Truman Show." Joss is going to create people with a whole new psychosis --- people who believe that this universe actually exists.
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Post by Karen on Mar 22, 2009 18:36:24 GMT -5
Aalso, how are the science/tech people recruited, and to what extent are they Dolls? Yes! And now Joss has to be careful that his overall themes and plots don't get overshadowed by the constant "is s/he a doll or not?" question every week.Unless......everyone really is a doll. Joss realizes this problem - mentioned in this review. Man on the Street
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Post by rich on Mar 22, 2009 18:51:28 GMT -5
Welcome back Joss. I missed you.
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Post by Karen on Mar 22, 2009 19:33:22 GMT -5
If you were a writer would you really want to work alongside Joss. Who is the MOST incredible storyteller, even when he's telling 5-6 different stories all at once. What television exec, no matter how dense, having this episode in the can, would even bother to show episodes 1-5?So, now I can "recruit" friends to watch by telling them: skip episodes 1-5 and go straight to 6. Having the man on the street interviews is pure genius -- sets the backstory, acknowledges the creepiness, gets people to admit to the seduction of the idea, etc. (I mean, you can always so back and watch episodes 1-5 to make sure you know all of the back story, but THIS is the "why did I ever consider doubting Joss" episode.) Surely Boyd is the "inside man?" (surely? maybe? ya think? could be anybody?) But I want it to be Boyd! I like the neighbor girl a lot. Many, many, many, layers and stories. That was an incredible fight scene. The story of the rich man and the woman he loved who died----fantastic. Drew me in, so sympathetic, so sad, so lovely, and her with the "it's porn isn't it?", which really a little bit it sort of was: "It is a fantasy." What were the ratings? What have the reviewers said? What is the word on the street? Ratings are pretty good. CBS ticked up to 5.4/9 at 9 p.m. with more March Madness. "Supernanny," 3.5/6, kept ABC in second. "Dollhouse" scored a 2.6/5 to move FOX ahead of NBC and "Friday Night Lights," 2.5/4. The CW aired an "America's Next Top Model" repeat. zap2it
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Post by Sue on Mar 22, 2009 21:13:54 GMT -5
The more I think about this, the more I like it, because otherwise we could have Ballard replaying The Fugitive where he spends the next five years (may it be so) trying to stop the Dollhouse. Maybe that's Joss's plan but I'm not sure that's effective. It makes sense to have some twist with Ballard and the Dollhouse. In a comparison with Angel, he was out there "helping the helpless." His primary mission was not to stop W&H (at least at first, and some debated whether it ever should have been) but to make a difference one soul at a time. Ironically, bringing Ballard into the Dollhouse rather than chasing the Dollhouse as an outsider would make more sense than having Angel as CEO of W&H. I'm seeing lots and lots of parallels to Angel. My thought too. Dollhouses all over the world, in control of everything important. Dollhouse = Wolfram & Hart DH managers = Senior Partners. Again, same motifs - different treatment. Now I hope the word spreads..... leftylady - who hearts Joss more than before. Is Joss a deep down conspiracy theorist? Or is it just that he sees that the world is emeshed in evil?
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Post by Sue on Mar 22, 2009 21:16:14 GMT -5
Ah. I just realized that the neighbor who is going to get her heart broken by Mr. FBitchI looks a lot like Echo. . brainshare
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Post by jeff on Mar 26, 2009 22:03:16 GMT -5
If you were a writer would you really want to work alongside Joss. Who is the MOST incredible storyteller, even when he's telling 5-6 different stories all at once. What television exec, no matter how dense, having this episode in the can, would even bother to show episodes 1-5?So, now I can "recruit" friends to watch by telling them: skip episodes 1-5 and go straight to 6. Having the man on the street interviews is pure genius -- sets the backstory, acknowledges the creepiness, gets people to admit to the seduction of the idea, etc. (I mean, you can always so back and watch episodes 1-5 to make sure you know all of the back story, but THIS is the "why did I ever consider doubting Joss" episode.) Surely Boyd is the "inside man?" (surely? maybe? ya think? could be anybody?) But I want it to be Boyd!I like the neighbor girl a lot. Many, many, many, layers and stories. That was an incredible fight scene. The story of the rich man and the woman he loved who died----fantastic. Drew me in, so sympathetic, so sad, so lovely, and her with the "it's porn isn't it?", which really a little bit it sort of was: "It is a fantasy." What were the ratings? What have the reviewers said? What is the word on the street? In order to create that part of echo to come out , it would have to be somebody with inner workings of how the downloads work. I am betting our little Fred/illyria/Dr Saunders is the inside man. just a thought.
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