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Post by spacecat1974 on Apr 4, 2009 18:04:59 GMT -5
The idea of Nolan "buying" Sierra just squicks me! And then turning her over to the Dollhouse so that she could never say no again?
Just icky! Anyone else notice Victor wasn't waiting for Sierra to go to bed at the end? That made me kind of sad.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 6, 2009 12:13:17 GMT -5
Now we're getting there! "You wanted to forget." Won't tell her because that would be "violating the contract". "You couldn't live with the consequences of your own actions. And you no longer have to." Hmmmm. Adelle says that Caroline!Echo can't choose for the others, that they also wanted to not remember. Oh, wow. Now Sierra and Victor remembering when they were wiped!! And is this the reason why Mellie!November "volunteered"? The death of her child? Whoa! Is Caroline!Echo actualy getting them all released? No. No, they're all programmed to fall asleep when the "test" is done. And they all get gathered back up. OMG! Was this Dr Saunder's idea? To give some of them "closure" on those persistant memories? Close the loops. Let the tide come in. It's the only way to wash it back out." Oh, and the sedative wasn't timed. It was set to go off when they got what they wanted. "She wasn't leading them to freedom. She was leading them into a world of terror and chaos that would have destroyed them." "She's not leading them anywhere any more." "You should be grateful." "Yeah. I'll work on that." Man! The layers and levels of people doing things for what they believe are right reasons are thick and complicated, aren't they? Oooooooooooooooh!!!! Caroline got off a call to Paul!!Man! Another exciting and complex and action-packed and thinky ep! Wait, how and when did Caroline get a call off to Paul? Or was this something Adelle planned? Or the mole? Cause if it was Caroline's doing, I don't see how she'd know who Ballard was or how to contact him. I'm thinking it was when she was going through desk, looking for files and stuff - when she first came back to the Dollhouse and Adelle was surprised to see her there. Because the security guy was all "should we stop it" and she was all "no, let it run". I'm thinking sometime in that brief time when Echo was off their radar, so to speak, she found the info about Ballard (in the files she was holding maybe?) and made a call.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 6, 2009 12:16:49 GMT -5
The idea of Nolan "buying" Sierra just squicks me! And then turning her over to the Dollhouse so that she could never say no again? **nods a lot** Also, I found it interesting that what he did was possibly against the rules of the Dollhouse itself, because of how he had to bribe people to make it work. Although, that could have just been while grabbing her and getting her there, I suppose . . . **nods to this too** I wonder if some of the progress they had started to make while wiped, showing some individuality and spontaneous comunication between each other and so on, is now set back again.
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Post by Karen on Apr 6, 2009 14:14:01 GMT -5
The idea of Nolan "buying" Sierra just squicks me! And then turning her over to the Dollhouse so that she could never say no again? **nods a lot** Also, I found it interesting that what he did was possibly against the rules of the Dollhouse itself, because of how he had to bribe people to make it work. Although, that could have just been while grabbing her and getting her there, I suppose . . . **nods to this too** I wonder if some of the progress they had started to make while wiped, showing some individuality and spontaneous comunication between each other and so on, is now set back again. I wondered that, too - and I'm sure you are right - this is going to be a setback. An important thing that happened is that Topher and Dr. Fred had a lot more interaction with Echo's real self. That has to affect the decisions they will be making from here on out. I can see now why Topher believed he was doing a good thing - especially if he was told that all the dolls were volunteers wanting to forget something awful from their past. I kept waiting for Echo to put him in his chair. I don't doubt that will happen at some point in the story. Paul's dream about Echo was probably foreshadowing. He has a thing she needs indeed. Also, it is interesting to me that Victor's 'issue' developed when he was in the Dollhouse. No matter how they try to keep the actives isolated, that there is no such thing as a person being able to live in a vacuum. My friend and I were discussing how Dollhouse hasn't really drawn us in completely yet. One of the things that is missing from Joss's other shows is that sense of 'family'. I'm sure that knowing how important family is to Joss, that he will be showing us how we as humans are naturally drawn towards each other to form all sorts of families.
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Post by Rachael on Apr 6, 2009 19:00:01 GMT -5
And there's the answer to "how will it last five years (ratings gods willing, which doesn't look good) if the dolls all wake up in Episode 8?" Answer: they didn't, not really. They were just programmed to be "themselves", and let's never again think there's anything Adelle doesn't know. I was impressed at how: the apparent spoilers in the previews weren't spoilers after all...and how, every time I had a question, Joss answered it for me before it was over. Example: if you're running a drill, WHY on EARTH would you choose to "wake" the Dolls who were already glitching? Answer: Because it wasn't really a drill, but a "therapy session" to fix those exact dolls. Nicely done.
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Post by Rachael on Apr 6, 2009 19:07:09 GMT -5
The idea of Nolan "buying" Sierra just squicks me! And then turning her over to the Dollhouse so that she could never say no again? Just icky! Anyone else notice Victor wasn't waiting for Sierra to go to bed at the end? That made me kind of sad. What I find interesting is that Victor only has "bad feelings" about Sierra - as if she's the only one who had a bad experience. On the surface, it seems obvious he's talking about the rape, which he knows about...but I sensed another level to the remark, one even he may not know about. It's as if Sierra's the only one who's not a "volunteer". She was forced, and not for the last time. The others all seem (so far) to have made a deal - often, it seems, to get memories they don't want to live with ablated. Made me wonder what Echo's really awful memory is. I began to wonder how Adele lives with Sierra's endollment. She seems to think she's doing the others a favor, on some level - but there's simply no way to see Sierra's incarceration as anything other than human trafficking and rape.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 6, 2009 21:51:18 GMT -5
**nods a lot** Also, I found it interesting that what he did was possibly against the rules of the Dollhouse itself, because of how he had to bribe people to make it work. Although, that could have just been while grabbing her and getting her there, I suppose . . . **nods to this too** I wonder if some of the progress they had started to make while wiped, showing some individuality and spontaneous comunication between each other and so on, is now set back again. I wondered that, too - and I'm sure you are right - this is going to be a setback. An important thing that happened is that Topher and Dr. Fred had a lot more interaction with Echo's real self. That has to affect the decisions they will be making from here on out. Good point! It does give some more depth to Topher's character. I want to know if what he said about the chair wiping out a "normal" brain is true. I mean, it makes sense, but at the same time he was trying to save himself. And he has done layers of multiple people in one brain before, so . . . Yes! Even if they slip back to being more blank, they'll end up becoming more individualized again. I'm finding the think-y-ness of the show fascinating, although, yes, doesn't draw me in in the same way as Buffy or Angel or Firefly. At least, not yet. But you all know how much I love think-y shows, so . . . Friends as family, humor mixed with the drama, and a distinctive sound to the language of the characters - that's what this show is a little slower to give than other Joss shows so far. But, I expect we'll get some version of all that in this show.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 6, 2009 21:56:10 GMT -5
The idea of Nolan "buying" Sierra just squicks me! And then turning her over to the Dollhouse so that she could never say no again? Just icky! Anyone else notice Victor wasn't waiting for Sierra to go to bed at the end? That made me kind of sad. What I find interesting is that Victor only has "bad feelings" about Sierra - as if she's the only one who had a bad experience. On the surface, it seems obvious he's talking about the rape, which he knows about...but I sensed another level to the remark, one even he may not know about. It's as if Sierra's the only one who's not a "volunteer". She was forced, and not for the last time. The others all seem (so far) to have made a deal - often, it seems, to get memories they don't want to live with ablated. Made me wonder what Echo's really awful memory is. I began to wonder how Adele lives with Sierra's endollment. She seems to think she's doing the others a favor, on some level - but there's simply no way to see Sierra's incarceration as anything other than human trafficking and rape. Which makes it an important question, who was he bribing? Someone in the Dollhouse organization, so that Adele may not know that is how Sierra got there, or . . .
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Post by Sue on Apr 7, 2009 7:40:27 GMT -5
The idea of Nolan "buying" Sierra just squicks me! And then turning her over to the Dollhouse so that she could never say no again? Just icky! Anyone else notice Victor wasn't waiting for Sierra to go to bed at the end? That made me kind of sad. What I find interesting is that Victor only has "bad feelings" about Sierra - as if she's the only one who had a bad experience. On the surface, it seems obvious he's talking about the rape, which he knows about...but I sensed another level to the remark, one even he may not know about. It's as if Sierra's the only one who's not a "volunteer". She was forced, and not for the last time. The others all seem (so far) to have made a deal - often, it seems, to get memories they don't want to live with ablated. Made me wonder what Echo's really awful memory is.I began to wonder how Adele lives with Sierra's endollment. She seems to think she's doing the others a favor, on some level - but there's simply no way to see Sierra's incarceration as anything other than human trafficking and rape. I thought maybe it was that she got her boyfriend shot (killed?) during that break-in at Rossum. But I've also wondered whether part of the "deal" is also to avoid prosecution (for breaking in etc) and imprisonment? Which is a better deal for Rossum as well since it keeps its dirty laundry secret.
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Post by leftylady on Apr 7, 2009 18:29:06 GMT -5
Dollhouse, fiction or just ahead of the facts? Interesting to see an article in the paper yesterday entitled: "Discovery of memory molecule raises hopes - and big questions" [ online title Brain Researchers Open Door to Editing Memory] By BENEDICT CAREY the first paragraph: "Suppose scientists could erase certain memories by tinkering with a single substance in the brain. Could make you forget a chronic fear, a traumatic loss, even a bad habit." The slippery slope begins.... for rest of article, my paper said writer was from NYTimes but also found in blog : slfcllednowhere.livejournal.com/493471.htmlleftylady
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Post by Sue on Apr 8, 2009 8:51:00 GMT -5
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