1/8: I Will Remember You

[Techno-bot]

Written by David Greenwalt & Jeannine Renshaw
Directed by David Grossman
Air date: 11/23/99

when exposure to demon blood causes Angel to become mortal, he must decide whether or not to renew his relationship with Buffy.

[beccaelizabeth]

From the casefiles:
Continuity
Buffy and Angel have years of shared history and heartbreak, including a wrenching disagreement over the course of their relationship in the Sunnydale sewers in "The Prom". Buffy also told Angel jokingly she doesn't look that good in sunlight in "Some Assembly Required"- now he has a chance to find out for himself. Cordelia gives Doyle a brief recap of the Buffy and Angel romance in her typical dry fashion. Angel is the first vampire known to have become human again and then returned to his vampiric state, but he won't be the last.


Cut due to length:
Doyle: "So Buffy and Angel, it's always been pretty... (mimes fisticuffs)... volatile?"
Cordelia: "That was nothing. One time they kicked the daylights out of each other at the mall- I was too embarrassed to shop there for, like, weeks."
Doyle: "It must have been good sometime..."
Cordelia: "At first he was just hanging around in the shadows, spying on us- boy, a lot's changed there, huh? - I was seeing someone at the time so I guess he sort of fixated on her."
Doyle: "And eventually they got together."
Cordelia: "Did they ever, on her seventeenth birthday. Which kicked in his 'knowing a moment of true happiness' curse and thine it really got ugly."
Doyle: "He went bad, tried to kill her."
Cordelia: "He tried to kill everybody. You weren't really goin' out much after dark in those days... Then she ran him through with a sword, sent him to Hell. He popped out four months later which was like a hundred years of torment in demon time or something... His hair's never really been the same."
Doyle: "And then?"
Cordelia: "Then they were on-again off-again - you sort of need a score card at this point- but finally they broke up for real last spring. That's when he took off for L.A. The story thus far."
Doyle: "Great. So what happens now?"

[be comments- so very glad that got cut. Can you imagine how clunky awkward that would have been? But the comment about his hair was gold. It needs saying.]


Pop Culture
-Doyle is trying to remind Angel to stay on target when he says "Orson, we're in a situation here." Mork from the Planet Ork (played by Robin Williams) reported to his fearless leader, Orson, on Mork and Mindy (1978-1982)
-"We have time for a cappuccino- and probably the director's cut of Titanic." Cordelia gives Doyle some idea of how long it will take Buffy and Angel to have a really awesome argument. The James Cameron film (1997) lasted over three hours.
-When searching below=ground for the demon, Buffy says "Tunnel number one it is." This is a reference to Let's make a Deal, a show on which contestants choose Door #1, #2 or#3
-"The next thing I know we're being attacked by that mutant ninja demon thing..." Buffy recounts her experiences in a reference to the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, characters created by Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird in the mid-eighties.

Our Heroes
"We did a set last year for the Oracles; they were sort of a brother and sister act who lived in another dimension, and they would be visited for knowledge. On that set, we wanted to create something that looked like it went on forever, a halway that looked like it just kept going and kept going and kept going. And for budgetary and for space constraints, we couldn't do that. So we tried a tried-and-true trick of forced perspective, we built a set with diminishing-size arches that, when you put the camera in the right position, it looks like they just go on." -Stuart Blatt, Production Designer.

[Rachael]

*sigh*

Okay, this episode always brings me back to "I love Bangel."

But, today, I have another point: IMO, Angel made the wrong choice. Again. Just as with the Gem of Amara. And this time, his justification for making that choice is even less clear than last time.

The Oracles (who do, in fact, answer direct questions honestly - you just have to ask the right questions. Very much like science. ) tell Angel that the demon told the truth, others would come, and Buffy would die - sooner than most people. 'Kay. What else is new? We knew that, on some level. Buffy's right: "They always come, and they always will." No rest for the Slayer. At no point was a direct connection between Angel not being a vampire and Buffy dying made.

Now, looking ahead, we could imagine any number of times in the future when Angel saved Buffy's life. All true. And the whole world-saveage delivery of the Liz Taylor Device to Spike via Buffy was very nice, I'll admit. But NONE of that was known, in specific, to Angel, and also - the Oracles couldn't be all that specific, 'cause the future isn't written in stone. We know this, now, from lots and lots of episodes of BtVS and AtS.

And also - while he showed himself willing to sacrifice his entire happy future for Buffy's life, Angel never actually got any word that his sacrifice would really save her. Just means something else will kill her. To be really gloomy for a sec - she's the Slayer. Something's gonna get her eventually. Probably.

And Angel has this assumption that she'll go out of her way to protect him, and so not be on her game. Uh-huh. Except, now he's human, why is he any different from Willow or Xander, humans she's already added to her list of "protect at almost any cost"? Does he intend to keep fighting evil, except, human now, and so gonna get in mortal danger a lot more often?

And also? The decision, already to violate the memories and experiences of someone he loves without their permission is chill-making. She's a grownup. He had no right.

So, IMO, Angel's decision comes down to guilt over being happy, and not being ready to let go of that guilt and come out of the darkness. He's really honed his brooding skills. But the price is too high.

Okay. . .other stuff. There's a whole big time theme going on, which is fairly obvious and easily interpreted, but it's neat nonetheless:

The episode opens with Angel setting his clock (and balancing his desk, incidentally, kinda symbolic, the balancing, right after seeing Buffy). That same clock is prominent yet again later, as is the one in Angel's apartment.

Then there's the watch he gives to the Oracles, and, "I like time. . .there's so little and so much of it." Interesting.

And then, Buffy's repeated "It's not enough time." It's really not.

And finally, the last thing we see is that clock, again, only now it's broken. Time ran out for Angel and Buffy.


Umm. Sign that Buffy and Angel are fundamentally incompatible, IMO, despite the hotness of them - they can (and often do) see the same behavior in exactly opposite ways. He's trying to respect her and show she's special by not letting her know he's there, and she takes it as she's not special enough to let know he's there. Also, she can say some fairly nasty things without a huge amount of provocation: "Boy, it's a good thing I haven't fantasized about you becoming human like 10 zillion times, 'cause today would have been a real letdown." Jeez.

Happy Angel is so lovely to watch. I wish I'd gotten to see it more than like three times. I really wanted it to work out, in this episode. Even though there was no flippersmackin' way it would.

Peanut butter in the bed. Again.

And, finally:

"I love chocolate. . .but not, as it turns out, yogurt!"

[beccaelizabeth]

Rachael said:

the future isn't written in stone.

the *past* isn't written in stone, so the future hardly can be.

I pretty much agree with everything you said
except I'm in so not a B/A place that Buffy's simple presence in Angel's show was winding me up yesterday. Yeah, I think I've moved on...

[beccaelizabeth]

Episode opens looking at a clock. subtle.
pretty old fashioned wind up clock being wound by Angel
who is being picky about his office

you know that double lamp with the red shades I noted the last couple of eps? Gone. Only a yellow lamp, two bulbs on a single stalk, shade matching the desk lamp. yellow all over.

I think the things on the desk top have been rearranged a lot. No pyramid thing, big round thing today, books over in corner. He's been fiddling.

Angel wearing black. Not fuzzy, button up shirt with the cuffs undone. Actually it might be velvety, so also fuzzy. Also has a silver shiny on his wrist, probably wrist watch.

The slats of the window are wide open when we watch Angel fiddle but tight closed when we see Cordy looking through them. Which makes more sense because otherwise she couldn't talk as if she didnt expect him to hear. But he is a vampire and can surely hear every word out there if he wants to.
Can see wings sticking up into shot too.

Theres quite a lot of light coming in that window at the back but it obviously isnt direct sunlight.

Doyle knows Angel got in last night, and C didnt until she asked. So Doyle was around the office? Or talks to Angel more?

Doyle is wearing a very dark blue shirt with white squiggly bits, open over a white t with very faint light blue pattern. No chain visible today, so not wearing his cross. Green trousers.
Cordy's top is very colorful, kind of orangey red with leaves and flowers on it. Denim skirt with belts, lots of stuff round her wrist. Hair back and up, done something with it just to come in to the office.

Cordy puts her hand on Doyle's shoulder to tell him he's got so much to learn. Doyle's reaction not just to the words methinks.

Angel using a stake to level his desk, not the most practical thing. But I guess he has a lot of them to hand.

Cordy saying it was Doyle that worried Why not just say oops? insecure/defensive

"But she's human and I'm - not. And that's also never going to change."
except for then it does

Buffy in the doorway. Wearing black and brown I think.

and another desk style lamp on the thingy behind the door. Theres a *lot* of lamps on for daytime in a well lit room inhabited by a guy who can see in total darkness and has previously shown a preference for sitting by himself in the dark.

Angel standing there with his mouth hanging open.

Buffy came to see her father. I note because this is season 4 and her father is still in touch. Yet by next season he's a no show.

Cordelia doing all the noisy part of the reacting and trying to maybe gloss over things?
Buffy staring at Angel and Angel dropping his gaze and his head, all oops.

Buffy has the exact same hair style as Cordy today, with the clippy thing holding the top bit back, and the long straight hair.
Got brown boots on with inches of heel. and some brown bracelets on right wrist.
two rings on her left hand, index and middle fingers. both look plain.

Angel mostly doesnt meet her eyes until 'wrestled with this decision'

whenever someone says its a long story in the Jossverse it can always be boiled down to three sentences or less. Usually less.

theres a lot of black and red in the books and cabinets, and brown and yellow and white in the walls and lights. So black and brown clothes in here match the office.

Angel moves around a lot, hand gestures and head shakes and sort of swaying as he shifts his feet. More movement than usual I think.

Doyle is the 'new sidekick'
not employee or seer or anything, sidekick

Buffy being all pouty and sulky. You know I kinda dont like her here? Its a reasonable reaction in context but jumping in without watching the concurrent Buffy eps it seems less reasonable.

Also people that have to explain they're a big girl are rarely very convincing.
especially when they tell someone off for protecting them then have to take it back straight away.
Buffy just doesnt come off looking good or like a serious love interest just from this intro.

Cordy getting stuff out her desk. She has a purple book with flowers on? huh. contrast with the tomes and the business folders.

"I feel you inside" is slightly odd

"I'm gonna go, start forgetting."
This is the version of the conversation (and the episode) that happened as far as Buffy is concerned. Angel lives with remembering her saying she'll never forget, Buffy lives with her saying she will forget. Very, very huge difference in experience must shape their reactions thereafter. Angel expects her to be waiting for him on some level, because she said all that stuff. Buffy moves on, because she didnt.

crash smash through the window. That happens a lot. no safe places, no just watching, always stuff comes to get you.

Outside the window the demon smashed through there is a wall with two windows in it, both with round tops, and the edge of something black and sloping.

Doyle and Cordy, C making yet another false assumption. The front door they are going through has blinds covering it. Theres a box on the wall behind them with three sections and lots of something horizontal. Names and numbers and talk box? Not sure. The wall is brick, but yellow. Angel's bricks are red. In the same building.

Angel gets thrown towards the window and into the light but doesnt noticeably burst into flames, so its not direct sunlight back there.

The bad thing is wearing leather and chainmail. Classic and sturdy.
The sword looks rather familiar. Its blurry but I'm pretty sure its one of the Highlander replica swords with the horsey looking dragon head on the end. Very pretty sword, but kinda distinctive to a different show. So, odd.

Angel diving in to grab the sword and the glowy blood dripping down the blade. pretty.

the two former lovebirds land on top of each other and get close enough to kiss and hesitate there a moment.
am I being uncharitable thinking 'cliche'?
I'm hot and tired and cranky and somehow cant get back into the Buffy/Angel mood. I'm still in the 'move on!' mood, even though that makes me sound like Andrew.

"It was rude. We should go kill it."


and Buffy gets changed ready for slayage. She was wearing something long and flowy, so not practical for kicking or running. But pretty. So she wore it.

Sewers.

And now Buffy is wearing a white top. I get why changing the skirt, but why change the top? Now she's all opposite instead of matching. the top is fuzzy soft. And white in a *sewer*. And she lets her hair down. I get why you wouldnt keep it fancy, or keep it in that clip that probably would fall out, but to leave it loose? This I dont get. Black trousers, practical.

Angel added the leather jacket and grabbed an axe.
Buffy brought the stake cause she knows how to use it. Well she also knows how to use a sword, but she didnt bring one of those. too many memories to have one around Angel? But when the other guy has a sword if you arent going to bring a ranged weapon then you at least need something with reach that can block.
I'm counting Angel's weapon choice as more appropriate even with the room to swing issue.

Angel says "I feel wierd" and Buffy assumes its about her and her emotional issues.

maybe this episode isnt about Buffy and Angel, but about how things arent about Buffy any more.

the light in the sewers, never threatening to vampires, and now apparently really blue and low down... it makes absolutely no sense. Someones been mood lighting the sewers. I mean I can accept the light you see the dark by, but the mood lighting is bugging me.

"we have to bear"
I'm giggling because there was a bear last night (You made a bear!)

the ever so convincing relationship recap while they step closer together. Quick, bring on the demon.

the white top isnt just opposite of Angel, its opposite of what Buffy was a minute ago. and here she is being opposite of forgetting. sort of.

"or anything a real girl would want"
so if Buffy doesnt want it she isnt a real girl?

"to leave each other"
Buffy being mutual about the leaving

The first light that actually hurts Angel is the one that stops him touching Buffy
about all we can see of her on that ladder is light. She isnt well lit in the usual way, the camera cant see her right, she's all bright and shadow. Going up and away from him. relationship capsule in symbol. much less clunky.

I think Buffy's boots are black now. She wasn't carrying a bag, where did she *get* all this stuff?!

And now Angel in the dark is *really* dark, kind of the inverse of Buffy on the ladder. Almost all dark and some really light bits.

Theres enough dark that even the all seeing camera doesnt see the demon until its eyes start glowing.

The scene change 'this is a sewer' shot is the area he now walks into.

Putting your hand up to stop a sword, clever. Very carefully showing us the wound.

and the fight, and the shorter sword and yes thats definitely the highlander replica dragon. and the demon is similarly hard to kill.

they show us Angel morphing to vamp face after he is injured and starts to bleed, but we dont see him un morph. He just doesnt have vamp face any more after the demon blood gets on his hand.

oooh, swirly magic blood and glowing Angel flesh. But dark eyes still. Nothing happening to his soul.

heartbeat.

dust mistake, Doyle 'trying to give me a heart attack', cause he cares.
that's a *lot* of dust. I never vacuum and I never get dust like that. maybe the ceiling is falling apart.

[beccaelizabeth]

Angel comes in. At some point he took his coat off, and he has it in his left hand. Drops it vaguely in the direction of a chair and it misses. He comes in from the street entrance (with the hallway with the many levels and steps and interesting pointy arches). The sunshiny street. and he is looking all dazed.

Doyle figures out Angel is alive. Without saying anything, just goes up to him. Theres some kind of conversation-by-eyes thing going on but I cant translate.
Doyle taking his pulse.

Fridge full of fruit and stuff.

I love Angel's reaction when he tries the chocolate

and all the expressions on his face

Doyle calling him Orson- he's acting all alien-on-earth, trying everything in wierd mixtures.

Angel leans in right close to see the mohra demon. Do you think his eyes got worse cause of not being a vampire no more?

"They take out warriors, like you and Buffy"
not including himself

And Angel reflected in the glass. Didnt go hunting a mirror, just coincidentally sees his reflection in the glass. with the dramatic music rather nice in the background. he doesnt touch the glass, though he raises his hand like he's going to.

Doyle: "I don't know. I thought the only way for you to be made mortal was if the Powers-That-Be stepped in."
Angel: "What, they could have done this? How come I keep getting the feeling that you're not telling me everything."
Doyle: "Because I'm not. We're both on a need to know basis here."

Do you think Doyle knew about the Shanshu?
theres things he knows but Angel doesnt cause he doesnt need to
because knowing would be harmful? Or just knowing out of turn?

also, 'mortal'. They keep saying it. theres a couple of different definitions but top of the list is liable or subject to death. he has *always* been mortal. Now he is human. but beings not subject to ageing or natural death are not referred to as mortal even if they can die, which seems to give them an overoptimistic attitude to their chances.

Angel's shirt, in more light, is not quite black, has some blue in it. So I'm vaguely wondering if vampire color vision is sharp enough to see shades of black, and make Angel think his wardrobe is varied. But then how painful bright would Xander's wardrobe have been?

bars and wierd uneven stones, lit torches, and marble bits. interesting thing to find underneath LA.

writing in greek. In America. Where there werent greek speaking humans until it was an English speaking country. But greek, mystical. And wierd to look at because of the different alphabet.

Gateway for lost souls
okay, think about that for a while. personally no way would I want to step through that. gateway to make your soul lost? gateway for people who have lost their souls? Anything that mentions souls is just way too risky, you know?
says souls, not people. so only people with souls can get in?
and for if you are lost. this isnt a place you go to if you know where to go next.

"I'm just a lowly messenger, you're a warrior"
whats so lowly about messages? Oracles is another kind of messenger.

"if your heart is pure"
vampires are impure (says Glory) but Angel's heart is pure enough to survive

(Doyle in the brown leather again. I think I thought it was his only jacket cause he seems to be wearing it at the moments I tend to remember)

big shiny light! but not daylight, just light. and smoke effects. you can tell its all mystical.

Oracles, one male one female (usual representation of balance)
blue and gold. gold valuable, blue also very valuable until recently when chemistry could make cheap blue. blue and gold on religious pictures used to be the most expensive way you could decorate them. honor to the divine.
blue blood=royalty
some gods are depicted in art with blue skin

wearing black wraps. very simple old fashioned garments.

gives the shiny watch he has been wearing all episode.

"I like Time. There is so little and so much of it."
I quote that soooo often. except usually without the I like.

"He's no longer a warrior"
so how can he get in?
also where do they get off saying that just being human makes him not a warrior?
I think I mentioned at length elsewhere, while I can understand Angel's choice in this episode, it so totally puts down all the humans who make an effort, Giles and Xander and everyone else who just turns up and tries, it winds me up.

even the lights in there are blue and gold. pretty. and changing all the time.

"Did you save humanity? Avert the Apocalypse?"
I know humanity is used to mean all humans, but it is also used to mean those qualities that make us human as opposed to beasts or bastards. The good stuff. Did Angel save humanity? Well he has quite a bit of his own right now.
Part of why the big dumb plan was dumb was it was the kind of fighting any demon could do, and not big with the humanity or soul saveage, even though it was big with the self sacrifice. Demons can be self sacrificing.

the music in the background here makes me wish I had a better vocabulary to talk about music. notice it, because its really perfect and moving for the moment.

Oracles say "If it has happened it was meant to be."
thats not exactly claiming vast knowledge, thats just saying that everything is according to plan even when it isnt.


Man: "That which we serve is no longer that which you serve. You are released from your fealty."
Angel: "That's it? I'm free?"

so they talk about it in terms of fealty and freedom.

fealty:
The fidelity owed by a vassal to his feudal lord.
The oath of such fidelity.
Faithfulness; allegiance.
Fidelity; constancy; faithfulness, as of a friend to a friend, or of a wife to her husband.
the loyalty that citizens owe to their country (or subjects to their sovereign)
Fealty is distinguished from homage, which is an acknowledgment of tenure, while fealty implies an oath. homage apparently means public deference. so fealty is not the public bowing part, its the promising to serve part.

the interesting part is that for them to release him from fealty implies he swore it in the first place. when and to who or what?

you can be released from your oaths, but not generally from constancy or faithfulness.

Angel asking if he is free now says he thinks of before as not-free, even though he has many choices.

It is a really interesting little exchange.


Angel goes flying out and Doyle catches him / gets squished

"What do you want" and long look.
my brain goes to the slash place and wonders what if Buffy werent there when he got attacked

big romantic kisses in sunlight
awww, sweet
but becca the ever practical would not have believed it was Angel and let him kiss. Because much of the data contradictory to that theory. No longer feels the same to Slayer sense right? And in sunlight. so, suspicion.

but that wouldnt get the big romantic kiss with the swelling music

Cordy fussing over a sickly plant: "This plant was thriving just this morning. Now look at it. I'm telling you where she leads, dark forces follow."

okay, so we get the conversation where Doyle worries Cordy is jealous of Buffy and Cordy worries about the world falling apart. But why the dead plant? I'm finding it strange.
I guess its another time thing. How things fall apart / die when so quickly.

Doyle is really focused about Angel. And thinks C would be attracted to him. As like his first thought all the time.

Doyle's silly expression/movement to indicate what Cordelia has just called getting groiny. she says it but he doesnt.

[beccaelizabeth]

I'm actually bored with the relationship stuff. sorry anyone who likes it, today, B/A boring to me. But I wont forward it. I think Angel makes more facial expressions in this conversation than he has in the whole series so far.

Buffy is kind of a bitch in this episode. Like if this is all we see of her we wouldnt miss her.

Angel was being so precise and tidy at the start of the episode, and now he's sweeping stuff off the table to let it break. fun contrast.

naked Angel with the careful camera angles. kinda pretty.

"peanut butter, preferably crunchy"
which Angel has.
I'm collecting peanut butter references. I'm strange.

what we see of the room is quite substantially wrecked. which is kinda familiar from later for Buffy. but she doesnt remember this happening.

strawberries (which I'm allergic to so dont find sexy at all), chocolate, peanut butter, ice cream.

Sheets are all swirly dark on white. no solids or straight lines.
some red cushions.
Buffy wearing something probably belonging to Angel (it is black)
Angel wearing only his tattoo
double standards on television, like the L shaped sheets.

licking and laughing
okay, so that part doesnt annoy

Doyle: "Hey, I'm glad for Angel, but if that means I'm off the hook with the Powers-That-Be as well, all the better. I'm finally free to go out in the world and make me own mark in the world."

so he thinks the visions he gets are somehow because of Angel?
but immediately that proves not to be so

also
Cordy: "We had a cat that used to do that."
lol

I'm now obsessing on Angel's bed covers. Yeah, detail oriented. But the sheets are swirly, and the pillows are flowers and leaves and blue and green (which would match Doyle. I'm just saying.) And the top cover is patterns including more red. Nothing matches. All mixtures of things. And all way ornate. And also, vampires have no body heat, what is the point of covers anyway? Spike sleeps on top of a stone slab, Angel sleeps in a big double bed with floral covers. just a teensy tiny huge contrast.
also if we were watching this in broadcast order I could compare to what we've seen of Angel's sheets in Sunnydale but I havent got to any episode where that has been visible so I cant.
so why did I type that?
um, to remind me later.
ah, on closer examination the blue flowers also have swirls like the sheet, so those actually do match. The top thing is mostly green with some... beige? cream? pink? orange? pale something, and those red blobs. But mostly green and blue. And the red blobs match the red cushions.
but its like he's got all the colors on there.

Okay, and my readers are skipping this cause its so very not the point of this scene. sorry.

happy snuggly in bed Angel is... kind of sad cause we *never* see this again. but sweet.

so perfect for Buffy is feeling like a normal girl. which she will never be. methinks even if he didnt revamp things wouldnt have continued perfect.

Angel same robe we saw before, red and black. suits this ep better.
pulls on black trousers probably from earlier. but then he grabs a soft dark grey top, not at all what he was wearing before. So does he have more than one days worth of cast off clothes lying in his living room?
the long coat is lying there too. he wears that for the second demon hunt. first hunt was the leather.

Doyle: "I think maybe we ought to bring someone a little supernatural."
not so subtle hint that maybe Angel cant handle it now
I get how Angel gets to thinking being human wont be good enough, but that would be because he still thinks he can do everything alone. Humans have to be social. which is exactly what Doyle was sent to get Angel to be. So now Angel will work with Doyle, but tries to protect the Slayer even from being woken up in the middle of the night. Not so smart.

also, its lucky that Buffy is all covered up, seeing as Angel considerately left the door open for his associate to peek at his sleeping girlfriend. Personally I'd be very much annoyed in similar circumstances.

Angel: "I know what I'm doing."
no you dont, you are failing to account for a change in circumstance. dumb.

Angel: "If this thing with me and Buffy is going to work, I need to be able do this on my own. I can't keep risking her life every time some minion of hell.. Just tell me how to kill it."
and this is so wrong on so many levels, and we all know it. Buffy risks herself you dumb person! You isnt the boss of her so you arent risking her! Its not like she does what you tell her. Dumb. very, hugely, testosterone poisoned old fashioned attitudes must be the manly man DUMB.

Doyle is not being at all about the gender of the players here, he just wants the strong person to do the fighting. Angel is being about gender, and also about protect the beloved. things so would not have worked out.

Angel's reaction to blood- Doyle says "It's never an easy sight. It's part of being human"
but I'm wondering. I mean surely his reactions didnt get rewired so quickly? But it wouldnt smell right. Also it was a surprise when he found it- he couldnt track tiny traces like before. Being surprised by something that used to be the center of your world must be a huge shock, kind of like being reminded you've gone blind.
And Doyle's senses notice the demon before Angel does.
then Angel gets his ass kicked badly and runs away.
I totally get where Angel decided being human sucks. its insulting, but I get it. The part I really dont like is how he goes about fixing it.

Buffy puts her hair up and dresses in her own clothes before coming upstairs to look for Angel.

Cordy in the office. Didnt go home, is waiting to see how things work out. But didnt go with D & A neither, because not a fighter yet.

Buffy with expertise about the weapons.

Cordelia being magnificently self centered. Reminds me this is so very early Cordy.

Cordy almost doing like Angel told her and not telling. Just gets carried away with her own rant. She was never actually Buffy's follower, but she seems to be trying to follow Angel's instructions now. And it cant just be a he's the boss thing because trying to sell all the office equipment without asking? not something you do to your boss.

It is a lovely dramatic setting for the fight, the pipes and then the big wierd round room.

"The end of days has begun and can’t be stopped."
sounds familiar

"You hurt my boyfriend."
definitely sounds familiar. more threat and less whine than about Owen.
but that line probably doesnt help Angel's self esteem issues. He's gone from being the champion to being the boyfriend. I'm sure he'd see that as a step down, however fun it is. because the champion has a girlfriend, not is a boyfriend. if that makes sense in english.

implausible but pretty lighting again. makes everything all dramatic.

Mohra: "Together you were powerful. Alone, you are dead."

Angel seems to take this to heart. And yet, they're still alone anyways. daft him.

I dont get why a text book would be that obscure anyway. I get translation errors, but I dont get deliberate obscurity in basic instructions on how to defend yourself. I mean it isnt like alchemy where they're trying to keep commercially valuable secrets. Unless theres a trade in demon blood, which would actually be logical and useful.

[beccaelizabeth]

Oracles confirm the bit about the end of days. both sides say it is coming. and dont seem displeased by that. which is worrying.

"I ask you to take mine back"
Angel music starting in the background, his theme. I saw/listened to an essay that pointed out they have little motifs, especially in these earlier episodes.

to give Angel credit, he doesnt ask them to wipe everyone memories and reverse time and alter the whole world just for his benefit. he humbly offers his life into service of the higher beings. fealty again.

but the Oracles decide changing the past is easier than, say, accepting his service and pointing out that with Spike and Willow's cooperation he could be back to what he was without time turning at all.

"a demon with a soul"
the Oracle does not say human soul, just soul. thereby implying that demons with souls are rare ie demons dont have souls. which implication I disagree with, for most definitions of soul.

"Look I can't protect her or anyone this way, not as a man."
it again makes it odd using man=human because it suggests a male cant protect her or anyone.

Angel's face is all beat up, you can see red bits sometimes when the light is right. must be unpleasant when you are used to healing much quicker.

Man: "Temporal folds are not to indulge at - the whims of lower beings."
Woman: "You are wrong."
important to note, Oracles can be wrong too. look surprised about it but they disagree with each other and she says he is wrong. so one of them is wrong. but people go to them for advice.

"This one is willing to sacrifice every drop of human happiness and love he has ever known for another. He is not a lower being."
and I note this because Cordy as a higher being becomes a lot less implausible by this definition. Theres a whole lot of higher beings around by this definition.

"Can you carry that burden?"
you know by phrasing it that way she pretty much guarantees he'll say yes. if she asked him if he was worthy of that gift, reckon he'd say no.

different clock, different dress on Buffy (where was she carrying this stuff??)
red flowery dress. red, passion, and dress, not practical slayage trousers.
hair back to beind in a clip like at the start of the ep.

also in yet another new angle of corner of Angel's home. theres a desk with built in book case and either a matching lamp to the one that was upstairs behind Buffy or the same lamp moved down here. and again behind Buffy. theres a bunch of silver goblets on the shelf, something on the wall that could be a map, another set of stairs going up (the one next to the lift presumably goes up to the office, so where does that one come out?), an armchair, some pictures leaned against the wall (he hangs up weapons and props up pictures). bricks are yellow like upstairs, not dark like in the kitchen. rugs on a wood floor, presumably why C wanted to see if the floor was wood in the kitchen.

Angel on the stairs, so Buffy looks up at him and A looks down at her. Going down the stairs, not taking the lift. So he stops half way down.
no coat, face with red bruise bits.
comes the rest of the way down and turns away from her, gets distance before turning to face her. Buffy backs off when he tells her what he chose. turns away, walks away. physically trying to get away from the news, not hear it.

"that's not just bad for you, it's bad for the people we were meant to help."
still 'we're meant to'. He doesnt put himself in the category of people to be helped. And he still thinks of them as seperate, a them, not just 'bad for everyone' but 'bad for that group'.

"How can we be together if the cost is your life, or the lives of others?"
well yes, if she is dead is more difficult to be together

Angel assumes it is him that makes a difference. He and Cordelia have a lot in common- all about them. Unfortunately for Angel's ego he stays surrounded by people that agree with him and prophecies that seem to say he really is the center of the world. Makes it more difficult to see things in perspective or consider other points of view.

"I wasn't sure - if I could do it if I woke up with you one more morning."
did he sleep-wake with her? she slept, he watched.
so it would be one morning, not one more.

The B/A theme music in the background. awww, sad. Even though I'm glad they didnt get back together I'm still moved by the sad scene.

see obviously if he chose not to be a vampire it would be like if he chose to keep the gem, screwing the basic premise of the TV show. but both choices involve him making very dumb but very Angel choices. Interesting character traits that are entirely consistend but dumb, dumb, dumb. So it wasnt just ooc reasons.

Angel all crying. Hug him! very sad.

"I'll never forget."

and then the time shift and Angel, after hearing that, *still* says his line.

B: "given enough time - we should be able to.."
A: "Forget."

but its obviously hard to say it. and he says it different, with different body language. and reacts when she agrees. you think maybe he'd been hoping up til that second?

transcript says 'a lot of time has passed', but I thought I heard 'our time has passed'. Which would be interesting.

He uses the clock to smash the gem. Big change from carefully winding it at the start of the episode. less fond of time's passing now.

"That was unreal."
like everything in that day Angel remembers now.

"I've had a lot of time to catch up on my reading."
true and lying both at once.

His expression is so... puppy. Hurt. But covering it, not all twisted up like it was just before time turned.

Buffy leaves while he is looking down at the broken timepiece. not even waiting to say bye. All gone smashed.

the office door has a bolt and a lock with the knob you twist and a regular key hole. Also safety glass. So, a lot of ways to keep people out.

"That's it."

no more Buffy never.

actually as soon as I think it over, but the story brings me with it to

the ep doesnt end looking at the clock, but the story wraps there, like it started. tidy.

I didn't list even half the references to time, because very obvious, and central to theme. Not enough time, and things fall apart when you arent looking. And it all happened so quickly, Angel surely didnt have time to think things through, just react. With more time would he make the same choices? Surely so, because, Angel. What he does.


5586 words. hope some of them were useful.

[Me]

beccaelizabeth said:

Fridge full of fruit and stuff.

I love Angel's reaction when he tries the chocolate

and all the expressions on his face

Doyle calling him Orson- he's acting all alien-on-earth, trying everything in wierd mixtures.

Why cant angel eat food when hes a vampire

and yet spike seems to eat human food all the time and has a taste for it -- the onion blossom , spicy chicken wings?

[beccaelizabeth]

Guest-Me said:

Why cant angel eat food when hes a vampire

and yet spike seems to eat human food all the time and has a taste for it -- the onion blossom , spicy chicken wings?

I'm sure Angel is physically capable of eating food. He says "I forgot how good it all tastes when you're alive!"
and Buffy says "your vamp taste buds couldn't really savor it"
Spike eats the spicy foods and strong tastes. Vamp taste buds maybe dont have the fine discrimination to enjoy different human foods, just as human taste certainly couldnt tell the difference between human and orangutan blood (Spike told Willy he didnt want orang blood in Goodbye Iowa). but apparently onions and buffalo wings are strong enough tastes to be worth the eating.

[Anne, Old S'cubie Cat]

beccaelizabeth said:

I'm sure Angel is physically capable of eating food. He says "I forgot how good it all tastes when you're alive!"
and Buffy says "your vamp taste buds couldn't really savor it"
Spike eats the spicy foods and strong tastes. Vamp taste buds maybe dont have the fine discrimination to enjoy different human foods, just as human taste certainly couldnt tell the difference between human and orangutan blood (Spike told Willy he didnt want orang blood in Goodbye Iowa). but apparently onions and buffalo wings are strong enough tastes to be worth the eating.

Becca, I haven't been commenting on the episode threads because I can't watch the episodes with the gang. I just wanted to say that I'm really enjoying your analyses; they're almost like watching the episodes with a really good commentator.

When I am eventually able to watch them on DVD, I'm going to come back and read your posts and appreciate them (the eps and the posts) even more.

[beccaelizabeth]

Anne said:

Becca, I haven't been commenting on the episode threads because I can't watch the episodes with the gang. I just wanted to say that I'm really enjoying your analyses; they're almost like watching the episodes with a really good commentator.

When I am eventually able to watch them on DVD, I'm going to come back and read your posts and appreciate them (the eps and the posts) even more.

cool
thanks

[Lola m]

beccaelizabeth said:

<snipped for space>
I think the things on the desk top have been rearranged a lot. No pyramid thing, big round thing today, books over in corner. He's been fiddling.

Which is soooo not him. Angel usually stoic, stand or loom or sit. But not usually with the fussy movement just for movements sake.

<snip>
Doyle knows Angel got in last night, and C didnt until she asked. So Doyle was around the office? Or talks to Angel more?

From what we’ve seen in eps so far, seems like Doyle and Angel hang out more. Cordy still at this point attempting to have some kind of social life outside of the demon fighting. Plus, Cordy still does the selective listening in a conversation. Pays more attention to stuff about her, not so aware if it’s not.

<snip>
"But she's human and I'm - not. And that's also never going to change."
except for then it does

Yep, so of course he’s immediately tested based on the conditions he’s set. If the problem is one of Angel being human or not, then what happens next should work. Except of course it doesn’t, because that’s not really the problem. Plus, I’ve always had a bit of an issue with the “she’s human” part. I mean, yes it is basically true. But she is a supernatural human. And that makes a difference. It’s part of the whole complexity and issues around Buffy wanting to be a “normal” girl. Of course, I object to the idea of “normal” to begin with, but also she is never going to be not supernatural. She can live her life however it works for her, but she is always gonna be supernatural. And that is more of the issue than anything.

<snip>
and another desk style lamp on the thingy behind the door. Theres a *lot* of lamps on for daytime in a well lit room inhabited by a guy who can see in total darkness and has previously shown a preference for sitting by himself in the dark.

**snicker**

<snip>
Buffy came to see her father. I note because this is season 4 and her father is still in touch. Yet by next season he's a no show.

And how revealing an excuse was that for Buffy to come up with to see Angel? ‘Cuz we know from the BtVS episode that really she came to see Angel. Jossverse – home of the dad issues.

<snip>

"I'm gonna go, start forgetting."
This is the version of the conversation (and the episode) that happened as far as Buffy is concerned. Angel lives with remembering her saying she'll never forget, Buffy lives with her saying she will forget. Very, very huge difference in experience must shape their reactions thereafter. Angel expects her to be waiting for him on some level, because she said all that stuff. Buffy moves on, because she didnt.

Huh. That’s very interesting. I hadn’t thought to re-review the scene this way. What you say makes so much sense.

Also, I’ve always thought that when Buffy says “Given enough time we should be able to . . “ and Angel cuts in with “Forget”, that that was not what Buffy had been meaning to say. That instead she was meaning to go in some direction like “we’d have some perspective, be able to try this relationship out in another way, etc. etc.”. So when Angel says “Forget” she sees this as where he wants to be – takes it at face value. So if I add on your thought about their different memories and therefore their perceptions of things and I can really see how they are in totally different places.

<snip>
And now Buffy is wearing a white top. I get why changing the skirt, but why change the top? Now she's all opposite instead of matching. the top is fuzzy soft. And white in a *sewer*. And she lets her hair down. I get why you wouldnt keep it fancy, or keep it in that clip that probably would fall out, but to leave it loose? This I dont get. Black trousers, practical.

Angel added the leather jacket and grabbed an axe.

Well, Buffy was always with the pretty but slayer-ly questionable choices in dressing. And while Angel is also all about looking good, it’s easier with a classic man’s wardrobe choices to “look good” and still be able to kill stuff easily. Which says a whole bunch about societal issues and history and stuff. But we won’t go there.

<snip>
maybe this episode isnt about Buffy and Angel, but about how things arent about Buffy any more.

Yeah, that’s how I see it. Not only because from a show perspective it was important for AtS to establish itself as separate from BtVS – therefore, from Buffy herself. But also from story line it is important that Angel starts to see how he is not all about Buffy anymore. Which is why Buffy is . . . . not that nice/good a person or character in this ep. She’s seen outside her normal element and is meant to “not really fit” here in Angel’s world. It’s interesting how well the writers did this. They successfully get me to not really like Buffy as much when she’s on AtS, and not like Angel as much when he’s on BtVS.

<snip>
the light in the sewers, never threatening to vampires, and now apparently really blue and low down... it makes absolutely no sense. Someones been mood lighting the sewers.

**chuckles imagining someone mood lighting the sewers** It’s almost something that I can see Mayor Wilkins doing, except this isn’t Sunny D and he wouldn’t have cared so much about the mood lighting as about the cleanliness and germs and stuff. He really wouldn’t have liked these sewers. I always imagined that he was the reason for the much larger and neater sewer and tunnel system in Sunnydale.

<snnip>
"or anything a real girl would want"
so if Buffy doesnt want it she isnt a real girl?

Good one, be!

<snip>
they show us Angel morphing to vamp face after he is injured and starts to bleed, but we dont see him un morph. He just doesnt have vamp face any more after the demon blood gets on his hand.

oooh, swirly magic blood and glowing Angel flesh. But dark eyes still. Nothing happening to his soul.

My first thought was “Cuz it’s always gotta be blood”.

Lola

[Lola m]

beccaelizabeth said:

<snip>
"They take out warriors, like you and Buffy"
not including himself

Interesting, eh? And it’s not just that Doyle isn’t seeing himself as a fighter, it’s like he always downplays his role as not being that important.

<snip>
Doyle: "I don't know. I thought the only way for you to be made mortal was if the Powers-That-Be stepped in."
Angel: "What, they could have done this? How come I keep getting the feeling that you're not telling me everything."
Doyle: "Because I'm not. We're both on a need to know basis here."

Do you think Doyle knew about the Shanshu?
theres things he knows but Angel doesnt cause he doesnt need to
because knowing would be harmful? Or just knowing out of turn?

That’s what I wondered too! Or maybe it’s just a general knowledge of the kinds of things TPTB can do, but not this specific prophesy.

<snip>
"I'm just a lowly messenger, you're a warrior"
whats so lowly about messages? Oracles is another kind of messenger.

Yep, there’s that Doyle self-deprecation again.

<snip>
Oracles, one male one female (usual representation of balance)
blue and gold. gold valuable, blue also very valuable until recently when chemistry could make cheap blue. blue and gold on religious pictures used to be the most expensive way you could decorate them. honor to the divine.
blue blood=royalty
some gods are depicted in art with blue skin

Very good points!!

<snip>
Angel asking if he is free now says he thinks of before as not-free, even though he has many choices.

It is a really interesting little exchange.

Very interesting, especially the light it shines on Angel’s motivations and attitude. Because we tend to think of him as just generally feeling guilty over past actions, but this adds that element of “owing” humanity in payment for what he did. Makes me think of Erin’s analysis that talked about issues of debt and so on.

<snip>

okay, so we get the conversation where Doyle worries Cordy is jealous of Buffy and Cordy worries about the world falling apart. But why the dead plant? I'm finding it strange.
I guess its another time thing. How things fall apart / die when so quickly.

Yeah, I think it’s part of the whole time theme. ‘Cuz she says “This plant was thriving just this morning. Now look at it” – as if the plant died in just one day. So it’s stressing the “what a difference one day makes” idea.

Lola

[beccaelizabeth]

Lola said:

And how revealing an excuse was that for Buffy to come up with to see Angel? ‘Cuz we know from the BtVS episode that really she came to see Angel. Jossverse – home of the dad issues.

see this is why watching them out of step is a bit odd, because this I do not recall. I took what she said as true.
And if you think Jossverse has daddy issues they're tiny minor compared to comics. Even excluding Batman and all the Robins. Every frickin character has some kind of daddy thing going on.
(and now I want to change my avatar because the me and ASH one? *not* a daddy thing. really.)

Huh. That’s very interesting. I hadn’t thought to re-review the scene this way. What you say makes so much sense.

Also, I’ve always thought that when Buffy says “Given enough time we should be able to . . “ and Angel cuts in with “Forget”, that that was not what Buffy had been meaning to say. That instead she was meaning to go in some direction like “we’d have some perspective, be able to try this relationship out in another way, etc. etc.”. So when Angel says “Forget” she sees this as where he wants to be – takes it at face value. So if I add on your thought about their different memories and therefore their perceptions of things and I can really see how they are in totally different places.

nods *nods*

to pretty much all the comments as usual