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Reunion
Jul 6, 2005 23:29:46 GMT -5
Post by Rachael on Jul 6, 2005 23:29:46 GMT -5
Interesting! And they put their finger right on it, (as does Erin below) when they say the problem is Angel turning his back on the mission. By walking away from the visions, the helpless. So TPTB were trying to remind him of that - trying to pull him back? But not by force - it's gotta be his decision. But I also liked this essay for taking on the issue of how much the Fang Gang, the AI team, don't really help matters either. It's that whole "let's not listen to each other, let's just pull apart and sulk separately" thing that'll get them in trouble in season 3 as well. It's interesting, really, that the title of the episode is "Reunion", when the biggest event in the episode is truly a split. Although maybe the big reunion is between the Angel and Angelus sides of our hero....
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Reunion
Jul 6, 2005 23:43:07 GMT -5
Post by Rachael on Jul 6, 2005 23:43:07 GMT -5
Huh.
I found that I have little to say about this episode. It feels...very much on the surface, to me. And I have to admit to finding the Darla arc a bit less interesting than other arcs. Season 2 remains my least favorite of the bunch.
However:
- It's interesting, to me, that Dru arranges Darla's rising like a christening. The white dress, the veil - the entire situation is shrouded in holiness, which is fascinating, because I think it shows that Dru's basic personality is the same as in life. She was always a very devout human, and now, as a vampire, in many ways it's as if her devotedness is still there, but the magnetic pole has shifted, such that she gets religious experiences from really evil things. Unlike vamps like Darla or Spike, who are basically amoral hedonists, out for the kill because it's fun.
- So, does Lindsey not get what happens when someone is turned? Or does he really have a death wish where Darla is concerned? Because...he wanted to hang around and watch her rise. Hello - vampires wake up pissed off, hungry, and animalistic, a lot of the time. You'd think that'd be in the W&H orientation package.
- Cordy: "Nice plan, General Custer." vs. Gunn: "You had me at 'everyone gear up'." The non-loyalty of Cordy can be a real asset, at times.
- I felt so badly for Dru when she was "All alone...." Because she so is. Even as an evil, soulless monster, she's still all alone - the only one of her kind.
- Holland: "You don't kill humans." Oh, boy, the miscalculation. You did your job too well...and when he tries to play on Darla's gratitude to him for restoring her? Did HE not read the handbook? Because vampires? Not big with the gratitude.
- Lindsey: "The firm may not want you dead, but I'm cool with it." Already, Lindsey is breaking with W&H in order to wage a personal war with Angel.
- Finally, the most chilling line of the episode: "Daddy's home." She was right. Even though it didn't seem so at first. And that awestruck, "Daddy," at the end, when it becomes clear what Angel's plan is. Wow. I was loving the Dru bits of this episode.
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Post by Lola m on Jul 7, 2005 7:40:58 GMT -5
Huh. I found that I have little to say about this episode. It feels...very much on the surface, to me. And I have to admit to finding the Darla arc a bit less interesting than other arcs. Season 2 remains my least favorite of the bunch. However: - It's interesting, to me, that Dru arranges Darla's rising like a christening. The white dress, the veil - the entire situation is shrouded in holiness, which is fascinating, because I think it shows that Dru's basic personality is the same as in life. She was always a very devout human, and now, as a vampire, in many ways it's as if her devotedness is still there, but the magnetic pole has shifted, such that she gets religious experiences from really evil things. Unlike vamps like Darla or Spike, who are basically amoral hedonists, out for the kill because it's fun. - So, does Lindsey not get what happens when someone is turned? Or does he really have a death wish where Darla is concerned? Because...he wanted to hang around and watch her rise. Hello - vampires wake up pissed off, hungry, and animalistic, a lot of the time. You'd think that'd be in the W&H orientation package. - Cordy: "Nice plan, General Custer." vs. Gunn: "You had me at 'everyone gear up'." The non-loyalty of Cordy can be a real asset, at times. - I felt so badly for Dru when she was "All alone...." Because she so is. Even as an evil, soulless monster, she's still all alone - the only one of her kind. - Holland: "You don't kill humans." Oh, boy, the miscalculation. You did your job too well...and when he tries to play on Darla's gratitude to him for restoring her? Did HE not read the handbook? Because vampires? Not big with the gratitude. - Lindsey: "The firm may not want you dead, but I'm cool with it." Already, Lindsey is breaking with W&H in order to wage a personal war with Angel. - Finally, the most chilling line of the episode: "Daddy's home." She was right. Even though it didn't seem so at first. And that awestruck, "Daddy," at the end, when it becomes clear what Angel's plan is. Wow. I was loving the Dru bits of this episode. I really love all the Dru bits here!! I find it very telling to see how often she switches from saying "Angelus" or "Daddy" to "Angel" or "the Angel-beast". I think that is her reaction to him - how is is kind of . . . flickering back and forth. And it's a hint of what we'll see later in the season: an Angelus-esque Angel.
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Reunion
Jul 7, 2005 19:55:01 GMT -5
Post by Lola m on Jul 7, 2005 19:55:01 GMT -5
Another favorite Dru moment. (OK, you guys already knew I am a Dru fan, and we don't get that many eps with her in them, so you gotta excuse the babbling. ;D)
Dru: Oh, yeah. Grandmother is very pleased with it. - I can tell. - Aren't you, Grandmother? My daughter. Lindsey: Can she hear you? Dru: She's *dead.*
(The look she gives him. Priceless. Those sudden moments when someone is humoring her and she just suddenly snaps into coherence. Love it. ;D )
I'm also really interested in what Darla really feels about being back. She presents as very . . . upset about it at first. And she sure as heck is really really pissed at Holland. Hates being manipulated, or someone trying to manipulate her. “You - brought me back as human - a dying one at that. Let me wallow with a soul, then sent me crawling back to Angel, begging him to restore me.”
Is she hanging on to a remnant of human-souled Darla? Is she angry at being vamped again? But, she was also trying to get someone to vamp her because she didn't want to die.
I try to compare this with the reactions of Spike's mum being vamped and I find some interesting parallels.
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Post by KMInfinity on Jul 8, 2005 0:54:30 GMT -5
I loved this episode. It’s one of my “Ten.” What makes this episode for me is Dru. More than any other, this episode gives Juliette Landau a real chance to shine. There were dozens of lines that had me chuckling…yet all the while slowing getting creeped out by just how soulless and insane Dru really is.
And Julie Benz also had some great scenes. The scene where Darla vamps and bites the guy in traffic, then gives a saucy toss of the head and is human gain….brilliantly staged and acted.
I agree. Would we have had better Seasons 3-4-5 with a less conflicted Angel? Or a more generic vampire show?
Add to the perspective the fact that Skippy claimed Jasmine had spent years “guiding” the process that produced Connor, the question of free will enters. What was it that drove Angel to Holland Manners’ wine cellar? As he was on his way, what was he thinking? I’m going to stop Darla and Dru? I’m going to HELP Darla and Dru? I’m going just to see what I can see? If, as a souled creature, he has free will, why did he end up there, at that moment, making the choice he made—unless he was “guided” by Jasmine?
Wonder if Joss had “Shiny Happy People” already plotted out…given this scene does lead rather directly to Angel sleeping with Darla,
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 8, 2005 9:05:31 GMT -5
This is from the LMPTM discussion thread, but it pertains to Reunion too, so I thought I'd post it here as well. KMInfinity said: Maybe this is more a comment for the Reunion thread, but anyway. Yes. I always imagine that Dru did something similar to Spike after she turned him as she did with Darla. Angel guessed pretty quickly that she would do "the ritual" because she was a "classicist." There's nothing else in canon that suggests any sort of ritual is necessary for turning a vampire, so I think it's strictly a Dru thing.
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Reunion
Jul 11, 2005 6:11:22 GMT -5
Post by Linda on Jul 11, 2005 6:11:22 GMT -5
Interesting! And they put their finger right on it, (as does Erin below) when they say the problem is Angel turning his back on the mission. By walking away from the visions, the helpless. So TPTB were trying to remind him of that - trying to pull him back? But not by force - it's gotta be his decision. But I also liked this essay for taking on the issue of how much the Fang Gang, the AI team, don't really help matters either. It's that whole "let's not listen to each other, let's just pull apart and sulk separately" thing that'll get them in trouble in season 3 as well. It's interesting, really, that the title of the episode is "Reunion", when the biggest event in the episode is truly a split. Although maybe the big reunion is between the Angel and Angelus sides of our hero....*Squee!* I loooove that idea! And I had to go back and re-watch the cellar scene and listen to Dru: "It's not Daddy. It's never Daddy. It's the Angel-beast." And then finally, when Angel goes dark and shuts the door: "Daddy." I consider Dru to be a Truth-teller, in her own loopy way. Thanks Rachael! Fun new things to think about! Linda, wow, what a neat match to the BtVS ep LMPTM!
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Reunion
Jul 11, 2005 6:13:06 GMT -5
Post by Linda on Jul 11, 2005 6:13:06 GMT -5
Hi all! I'm late to the party, but I had a few randomer thoughts than usual: So, how many times does Angel have to make the decision on whether or not to kill a woman he loves because of demon- or god-possession? Lessee: Darla in Reunion (and BtVS episode Angel for that matter), Cordy in Inside Out, and Fred in A Hole in the World. Does it mean something more than maximum emotional carnage? Inquiring minds want to know. I've been thinking that a big component of Angel's going off the deep end about his failure to save Darla has to do with the reinforcement of the fear that he, himself, can't be saved. I mean, if Darla is redeemed, and she is the initial source of his evil, then he could hold on to a bit more hope for himself. I think that this fits in with the fact that it is Dru who takes this hope away from him. He considers Dru to be the result of his most heinous behavior. Perhaps when faced with both the cause and effect of his past evil, he can no longer see a reason to keep fighting against himself. Linda, out of gas.
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Reunion
Jul 11, 2005 7:02:23 GMT -5
Post by Lola m on Jul 11, 2005 7:02:23 GMT -5
It's interesting, really, that the title of the episode is "Reunion", when the biggest event in the episode is truly a split. Although maybe the big reunion is between the Angel and Angelus sides of our hero....*Squee!* I loooove that idea! And I had to go back and re-watch the cellar scene and listen to Dru: "It's not Daddy. It's never Daddy. It's the Angel-beast." And then finally, when Angel goes dark and shuts the door: "Daddy." I consider Dru to be a Truth-teller, in her own loopy way. Thanks Rachael! Fun new things to think about! Linda, wow, what a neat match to the BtVS ep LMPTM! Linda!! **bounce, bounce** I found it interesting how several times the eps picked for any given week turn out to make a nice match or have an interesting parallel. Plus, I really like this idea of Rachael's. I think it is a very possible interpretation - and is definitely strengthened by the different things that Dru says.
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Reunion
Jul 11, 2005 7:06:08 GMT -5
Post by Lola m on Jul 11, 2005 7:06:08 GMT -5
Hi all! I'm late to the party, but I had a few randomer thoughts than usual: So, how many times does Angel have to make the decision on whether or not to kill a woman he loves because of demon- or god-possession? Lessee: Darla in Reunion (and BtVS episode Angel for that matter), Cordy in Inside Out, and Fred in A Hole in the World. Does it mean something more than maximum emotional carnage? Inquiring minds want to know. I've been thinking that a big component of Angel's going off the deep end about his failure to save Darla has to do with the reinforcement of the fear that he, himself, can't be saved. I mean, if Darla is redeemed, and she is the initial source of his evil, then he could hold on to a bit more hope for himself. I think that this fits in with the fact that it is Dru who takes this hope away from him. He considers Dru to be the result of his most heinous behavior. Perhaps when faced with both the cause and effect of his past evil, he can no longer see a reason to keep fighting against himself. Linda, out of gas. **nods nods nods** It's like, if he could have kept her human, or somehow "saved" her, even after she was vamped, then it's like there's more chance for him. Almost like he's seeing the Shanshu in someone else.
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