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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 8, 2005 12:53:06 GMT -5
So... My sister now uses the phrase, "I'm a leaf on the wind," every time someone dies suddenly in the movies or on television. Also, from a "newbie" perspective (one of the folks I saw it with on Thursday was a complete Firefly virgin): It's not at all clear that Inara is a prostitute. You'll notice that Mal doesn't use the word "whore" once, and even the term "Companion" is only used once. Geoffrey had no clue until I told him. Interesting directorial choice, don't you think? About Inara being a prostitute - there was some reference to her . . . needing to know how to please men or something . . . but if I hadn't already read somewhere that this character was a prostitute, I'm not at all sure I would have realized it. Maybe it portends her getting out of that business if sequels happen.
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Post by Rachael on Oct 8, 2005 13:06:16 GMT -5
So... My sister now uses the phrase, "I'm a leaf on the wind," every time someone dies suddenly in the movies or on television. Also, from a "newbie" perspective (one of the folks I saw it with on Thursday was a complete Firefly virgin): It's not at all clear that Inara is a prostitute. You'll notice that Mal doesn't use the word "whore" once, and even the term "Companion" is only used once. Geoffrey had no clue until I told him. Interesting directorial choice, don't you think? About Inara being a prostitute - there was some reference to her . . . needing to know how to please men or something . . . but if I hadn't already read somewhere that this character was a prostitute, I'm not at all sure I would have realized it. Maybe it portends her getting out of that business if sequels happen. Or something about ratings: "Okay. I'll trade you one "shit", in English, for all the "whore" references." Yeah; he clearly missed that line. "You know, for a woman schooled in telling a man what he wants to hear, you're a bad liar," or something to that effect.
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Post by Rachael on Oct 8, 2005 13:08:10 GMT -5
So... My sister now uses the phrase, "I'm a leaf on the wind," every time someone dies suddenly in the movies or on television. Also, from a "newbie" perspective (one of the folks I saw it with on Thursday was a complete Firefly virgin): It's not at all clear that Inara is a prostitute. You'll notice that Mal doesn't use the word "whore" once, and even the term "Companion" is only used once. Geoffrey had no clue until I told him. Interesting directorial choice, don't you think? I think I'm going to start using that "leaf in the wind" phrase myself. I noticed, without really paying that much attention, that Inara's occupation wasn't really highlighted. But I can't decide how deliberate a director choice it was and how much was just due to the story being more concentrated on Mal and River. I can see the sequel focusing on Zoe's journey, Mal and Inara's relationship, as well as Kaylee and Simon. I myself am throwing "When's that get fun?" into conversation at every appropriate juncture. ;D
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 8, 2005 18:36:28 GMT -5
Sharing a pretty Serenity poster pic:
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Post by Cal on Oct 10, 2005 11:04:38 GMT -5
cal-- If you read anything about the box office numbers in the UK repeat it here, please. I've just received an email from the UK Browncoats saying that Serenity has opened at #2 in the UK Box Office...but only just. It is only just behind Pride and Prejudice, so there is still a possibility that it could make #1! I'll be keeping my fingers crossed! Serenity DID take the #1 spot at the box office in its opening weekend!
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Post by Karen on Oct 10, 2005 13:41:43 GMT -5
An attempt at analysis and discussion (Joss, I'm still mad at you) - It wasn't just that I like Wash, it wasn't just that he reminds me of my husband. What really hurt the most was Zoe. What's going to happen to her? She's lost her heart, really. From remarks made during the series, during the war Zoe was career military; cold, efficient, never smiled. Wash taught her how to be happy, how to laugh, how to love life instead of just getting through it. Zoe wanted to have a child with Wash (which I found sweet and unexpected). Will she be able to live without the love of her life, or will she revert to cold, unfeeling war-time Zoe again, going on but not living? This death, for me, was worse than losing Fred. Fred and Wesley were just starting out; by killing Wash, Joss killed an established marriage, something that was still growing, as marriages do, but was already a real thing. Furthermore, Fred can come back; in fact, there were hints that she will come back. Wash is dead. Wash isn't coming back. Joss had better stay out of my way. I may not be able to control my inner Hellgoddess around him. Anne, reverting to babble As always, assume the IMO P.S. After some reflection, I apparently identify much too much with Zoe, which is odd - I'm a pacifist, and very non-military. It must come from being married to a sweet, silly but exasperating man. No remarks about my pacifism - the smiteage is my way of venting, otherwise there'd be Anne all over the walls one of these days when my brain exploded. That was one of the hardest moments in the film...even the second time. I was gripping poor Shan's arm (she had the unfortunate luck to be sitting next to me) from the moment Serenity tailspinned until Wash's "I'm a leaf on the wind..." saying, "I can't watch it again!" I knew it was going to happen and yet was hoping against hope that he changed it between May and now. I think what happens to Zoe now is going to be very interesting to explore...perhaps that's the next film... Of course, at the risk of being too soap opera-y.. .I'm kind of hoping she's pregnant. I hadn't thought of that! Now, that would be some surprise! Then again, it would be very Joss-like to bring a youngun aboard.
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Post by Karen on Oct 10, 2005 13:43:56 GMT -5
That was one of the hardest moments in the film...even the second time. I was gripping poor Shan's arm (she had the unfortunate luck to be sitting next to me) from the moment Serenity tailspinned until Wash's "I'm a leaf on the wind..." saying, "I can't watch it again!" I knew it was going to happen and yet was hoping against hope that he changed it between May and now. I think what happens to Zoe now is going to be very interesting to explore...perhaps that's the next film... Of course, at the risk of being too soap opera-y...I'm kind of hoping she's pregnant. Me too. *Sniffle* Also, upon further consideration, Mal might could help Zoe get through this. He grew a lot, and found something to believe in, over the course of the BDM. I liked what he said to River about love, at the end. Although I can't remember all of it precisely, it seemed hopeful. It was hopeful. Here it is: Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds.
Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.Still stinging about Wash being gone. I was in major denial and the second time thru the movie, the shock was gone, but the sadness remained. It was just so sudden - and there was no time to say goodbye.
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Post by Karen on Oct 10, 2005 13:57:52 GMT -5
I wondered if my kids would "get" Zoe and how she showed or didn't show her grief. But my son, Lew, after I told him how I cried after Wash got killed (how hard it is to type that ) - partly because of Zoe's reaction, because the shock of seeing him die so suddenly (it's the timing, always the timing that is so shocking) - I couldn't let go of my grief until I saw Zoe's reaction - said he teared up during Zoe/Mal's conversation here: Mal to Zoe: So what do you think. Will she fly? Zoe: She's been torn up a lot. But she'll fly true. He felt that she would not break down in front of Mal, because he is her captain - it is not expected - they are soldiers. But now she has no one with whom to be herself with. That's what is so devastating. Her soulmate is gone. The one with whom she could cry with. How will she deal with that? Love your examples. I did think about the whole Jasmine arc when I heard what the name of the drug - PAX. Peace. Big theme in the Jossverse. Of course, made me think of: Angelus: It hurts sometimes more than we can bear. If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank... Without passion, we'd be truly dead.Thank you for all the quoteage and excellent thoughts, Linda. How hard did I laugh at: Kaylee: It's been over a year since I ain't had anything between my nethers that weren't battery powered. Mal: Oh God, I don't need to hear that! Jayne: I don't mind... Good points about Zoe (many of which I tried to make myself not that anyone noticed). Your quote is very telling - "She's been torn up a lot. But she'll fly true." Zoe is a survivor. She'll live, she'll keep on doing what she has to, but she won't, I think, be truly alive without Wash. I think the entire audience laughed at Kaylee. In the future, everyone will have vibrators, apparently. Talk about Utopia. Zoe may not truly being alive without Wash. She's lost her love. She may fly true, but for how long? Or maybe she's more like Spike or Angel, in that she can soldier on even in the face of losing the one she loves. She seemed to forgive Mal for his heroics that got Wash killed, even though earlier in the film she told the man in the bar who was reaching for his gun: "Do you know the definition of a hero? Someone who gets everyone else killed." Do you think she blames Mal at all?
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Post by Karen on Oct 10, 2005 14:01:37 GMT -5
Hi all! So, I have done my darndest to make the BDM a success. On Saturday, I dragged a couple of my friends to a showing. (Verdict: fun in an Indiana-Jones kinda way.) Next week, I have made plans to drag another group of friends to see it. Oh, and my Serenity-hat-wearing Friday actually tipped the scales and made one of my co-workers curious enough to see the movie. He enjoyed it a lot. When I read the preliminary figures for this weekend, I went to see the movie again (by myself due to the last-minuteness of the decision) to do my part to add to the Box Office totals. (Yes, I am selfless that way. But not at all obsessed or anything. : You're a giver. I'm planning on seeing it every weekend for a many weekends as they will let me. And I'll be bringing at least one other new person with me each time. ;D Oh my yes! Not only am I wanting the next on already (like Julia), I also want the DVD now! So I can do all that rewind stuff and so on. ;D Loved her "I ate a bug" line. ;D Loved her doing that line! Mal's reaction was soooo funny! Such a quintessential Joss line. ;D Sooo true of all of them! But particularly Wash, Jayne and Zoe. Oh, such a wonderful observation! I'm gonna be on the lookout for those examples in my next viewing. I think we got both the Mal and the Zoe that Joss always wanted. Both so deeply wounded by the war. It was heartbreaking to see Zoe react and then immediately compartmentalize. Exactly as she must have had to do so often during battle. I'm proud of you, Linda. You're a rock. A pretty pretty unjealous rock. ;D I just read that they might be releasing the video on 12/20 - with the Joss introduction/thank you to the fans. You guys rock with the pimping. I'm still working to get my friends to go with me. They have lives!
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 10, 2005 19:47:25 GMT -5
Good points about Zoe (many of which I tried to make myself not that anyone noticed). Your quote is very telling - "She's been torn up a lot. But she'll fly true." Zoe is a survivor. She'll live, she'll keep on doing what she has to, but she won't, I think, be truly alive without Wash. I think the entire audience laughed at Kaylee. In the future, everyone will have vibrators, apparently. Talk about Utopia. Zoe may not truly being alive without Wash. She's lost her love. She may fly true, but for how long? Or maybe she's more like Spike or Angel, in that she can soldier on even in the face of losing the one she loves. She seemed to forgive Mal for his heroics that got Wash killed, even though earlier in the film she told the man in the bar who was reaching for his gun: "Do you know the definition of a hero? Someone who gets everyone else killed." Do you think she blames Mal at all? It's going to take Zoe awhile to feel alive again, and she's got all kinds of things to deal with - including anger, at herself and quite likely Mal. But the Jossverse, like the real Universe, is never about a one-and-only forever soulmate, and lives that can only be fully lived if they are lived in tandem with one, and only one, special "other." Being able to fully live your life is about being able to love and share and connect with others and the external world and being open to love. But it just isn't about having to connect with a one-and-only; it's not about one pair of lips or one set of eyes. This just isn't true; it's a lie, a romantic lie, but a lie nonetheless and a really destructive, life-destroying one, and Joss knows this. Buffy finally started living again by letting go of this soul-crushing concept, and I can't imagine Joss would do anything different with Zoe, if he's given the chance. Zoe has a lot to go through, but she will be fine.
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Post by Karen on Oct 10, 2005 19:57:28 GMT -5
Zoe may not truly being alive without Wash. She's lost her love. She may fly true, but for how long? Or maybe she's more like Spike or Angel, in that she can soldier on even in the face of losing the one she loves. She seemed to forgive Mal for his heroics that got Wash killed, even though earlier in the film she told the man in the bar who was reaching for his gun: "Do you know the definition of a hero? Someone who gets everyone else killed." Do you think she blames Mal at all? It's going to take Zoe awhile to feel alive again, and she's got all kinds of things to deal with - including anger, at herself and quite likely Mal. But the Jossverse, like the real Universe, is never about a one-and-only forever soulmate, and lives that can only be fully lived if they are lived in tandem with one, and only one, special "other." Being able to fully live your life is about being able to love and share and connect with others and the external world and being open to love. But it just isn't about having to connect with a one-and-only; it's not about one pair of lips of one set of eyes.
This just isn't true; it's a lie, a romantic lie, but a lie nonetheless and a really destructive, life-destroying one, and Joss knows this. Buffy finally started living again by letting go of this soul-crushing concept, and I can't imagine Joss would do anything different with Zoe, if he's given the chance. Zoe has a lot to go through, but she will be fine. I've never heard that put quite that way - about the lie of the one and only soulmate concept - and how it's destructive and something the Joss knows. Very insightful, Spring.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 11, 2005 17:47:41 GMT -5
You're a giver. I'm planning on seeing it every weekend for a many weekends as they will let me. And I'll be bringing at least one other new person with me each time. ;D Oh my yes! Not only am I wanting the next on already (like Julia), I also want the DVD now! So I can do all that rewind stuff and so on. ;D Loved her "I ate a bug" line. ;D Loved her doing that line! Mal's reaction was soooo funny! Such a quintessential Joss line. ;D Sooo true of all of them! But particularly Wash, Jayne and Zoe. Oh, such a wonderful observation! I'm gonna be on the lookout for those examples in my next viewing. I think we got both the Mal and the Zoe that Joss always wanted. Both so deeply wounded by the war. It was heartbreaking to see Zoe react and then immediately compartmentalize. Exactly as she must have had to do so often during battle. I'm proud of you, Linda. You're a rock. A pretty pretty unjealous rock. ;D I just read that they might be releasing the video on 12/20 - with the Joss introduction/thank you to the fans. You guys rock with the pimping. I'm still working to get my friends to go with me. They have lives! Oh I would sooooo love that! My biggest regret about not getting to a preview is missing Joss' intro. I mean, I've read his message, but I would love to see it! Saw it a third time with my sister yesterday. She loved it and said she thought the series and movie were Joss' most mature and moving work. I think I might very well agree with her.
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Oct 16, 2005 10:51:27 GMT -5
Any line with the word "nothing" in it. Joss turned the whole concept on its head for this movie. Extra rich when you consider how it was used to describe Reavers in the series. ("It's amazing what nothing can do to a man.") Here, it describes the other Pax victims. River: Make them stop! They're all dead and they're all in my head and I can hear them and they're saying ... nothing! NeverEnding Story II the bad thing is the 'Nothing' make everyone all hollow way to fix it is to wish a heart into it caring fights the nothing bit different here with 'fan of all 7' deadly sins filling up the nothing. passion, the good and the bad of it, the whole variety, instead of all flat. What makes the stories.
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Oct 16, 2005 11:10:16 GMT -5
Eetah with Anne and Karen about Zoe. And I *really* wish that you are right, Erin, about Zoe carrying Wash's child. This is the future. Maybe they left a kid growing in a bottle somewhere. Safer.
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Post by Karen on Oct 16, 2005 12:27:01 GMT -5
Eetah with Anne and Karen about Zoe. And I *really* wish that you are right, Erin, about Zoe carrying Wash's child. This is the future. Maybe they left a kid growing in a bottle somewhere. Safer. Ewww. Safer doesn't necessarily mean better.
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