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Post by Pixi on Mar 31, 2005 10:39:17 GMT -5
Wow! May I just say Wow! Great chapter. I must admit - I wasn't too happy with Spike flirting with Pammy at the beginning but whoosh bang the chapter then takes off like a firecracker. I loved the change of pace and it came at a good point in the story. And it was nice seeing it from Spike's eyes. Great job Riff - I'm glad I saved you for my last bit of reading.
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Post by Riff on Mar 31, 2005 13:16:57 GMT -5
*smiles* You may say “Wow” as much as you like. Pammy is there in part to add some characterisation for Spike, but mostly as a red herring. ;D I greatly enjoyed attempting to write from Spike’s point of view. He’s complex and interesting. I’m pleased you enjoyed it. Riff
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Mar 31, 2005 22:37:48 GMT -5
*smiles* You may say “Wow” as much as you like. Pammy is there in part to add some characterisation for Spike, but mostly as a red herring. ;D I greatly enjoyed attempting to write from Spike’s point of view. He’s complex and interesting. I’m pleased you enjoyed it. Riff Another "Wow" here - you did good with Spike, he was believable and right. Now I'm worried about Wes, and what Lorne is going to find, but then, there's Illyria, phasing in and out of Fredness. I'm also curious about the robots. I wonder who's sending them? It's all good.
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Mar 31, 2005 23:08:27 GMT -5
I've read the first four chapters all in one gulp. I can't analyze them but know they're multi-layered and deliberate. It all hangs together.
My reaction at this point is that you've written a well-paced and imaginative/insightful narrative firmly based on AtS: its characters, its backstory, its themes. All that it is. So far, with Wes at the center rather than either Angel or Spike. This works because Wes is the one most hurt by the loss of Fred and the most motivated to determine if that loss can be meaningfully undone. He's therefore the natural protagonist of the tale you've chosen to tell...at least up to this point.
You have made excellent use of groundwork in the form of glimpses of Fred shown emerging from Illyria in the series itself--some deliberate and calculated on Illyria's part (as when the Burkles visit) but some not. So it's credible to find Illyria writing formulae on the walls, Fred-like. And the cyborg/robot attack is built on similar groundwork from "Lineage."
The story has symmetry and forward motion. It all *means* and *leans.*
I have yet to see or feel any strong emotional connection or interaction among the characters (with the possible exception of Illyria and Wes) but that may be because you've used Wes' viewpoint: all interactions are filtered through his mental/emotional state. That would have a dampening effect, surely, since he's so caught up in his own torment he's hardly able to be normally aware of others. This dampening, however, carries over a bit into scenes where Wes isn't present. I'll have to read more to see if that's merely an artifact of my reading so many less cerebral fanfic tales, so I see this as a bit distant by contrast since nobody is hopping into bed or contemplating doing so (except Spike), or if it's actually there. Or to put it differently, I notice it now but maybe that element will be less marked once I can see the story whole and its parts in proportion.
This is good craft. Thanks for sharing it with us.
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Post by Riff on Apr 1, 2005 15:23:21 GMT -5
Another "Wow" here - you did good with Spike, he was believable and right. Now I'm worried about Wes, and what Lorne is going to find, but then, there's Illyria, phasing in and out of Fredness. I'm also curious about the robots. I wonder who's sending them? It's all good. I’m pleased you liked Spike in this chap. I know who I think he is (though that’s complicated), but it’s just my opinion, and since this is such a Spike-centric site I was worried some people might think to themselves, “But that isn’t Spike!” Who is sending those robots is a good question, as is why they are sending them. Why now? Hmmm. As for being worried, I can tell you that it’s crunch time next week… Riff.
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Post by Riff on Apr 1, 2005 15:42:08 GMT -5
I've read the first four chapters all in one gulp. I can't analyze them but know they're multi-layered and deliberate. It all hangs together. My reaction at this point is that you've written a well-paced and imaginative/insightful narrative firmly based on AtS: its characters, its backstory, its themes. All that it is. So far, with Wes at the center rather than either Captain Forehead or Spike. This works because Wes is the one most hurt by the loss of Fred and the most motivated to determine if that loss can be meaningfully undone. He's therefore the natural protagonist of the tale you've chosen to tell...at least up to this point. You have made excellent use of groundwork in the form of glimpses of Fred shown emerging from Illyria in the series itself--some deliberate and Spike's English Roseculated on Illyria's part (as when the Burkles visit) but some not. So it's credible to find Illyria writing formulae on the walls, Fred-like. And the cyborg/robot attack is built on similar groundwork from "Lineage." The story has symmetry and forward motion. It all *means* and *leans.* I have yet to see or feel any strong emotional connection or interaction among the characters (with the possible exception of Illyria and Wes) but that may be because you've used Wes' viewpoint: all interactions are filtered through his mental/emotional state. That would have a dampening effect, surely, since he's so caught up in his own torment he's hardly able to be normally aware of others. This dampening, however, carries over a bit into scenes where Wes isn't present. I'll have to read more to see if that's merely an artifact of my reading so many less cerebral fanfic tales, so I see this as a bit distant by contrast since nobody is hopping into bed or contemplating doing so (except Spike), or if it's actually there. Or to put it differently, I notice it now but maybe that element will be less marked once I can see the story whole and its parts in proportion. This is good craft. Thanks for sharing it with us. Thank you so much! You know, I’m honestly not certain who the protagonist is. It seems most likely that it’s Wes to me, too, but there are other candidates. Perhaps what I mean is that Wes isn’t necessarily the only protagonist, if that makes sense. If you read through to the end you may see what I mean. I wanted as much as possible to at worst have a back-up in canon for everything in the fic, at best have the events emerge directly from canon's themes. Although the story is obviously Fresley-centric, I couldn’t possibly ignore the other characters and their arcs. I like them all too much. The same applies to the themes. I think something holistic can work here. You’re right on all counts about a sense of “dampening”. For me, the FG were still very much in a fractured state when we last saw them. I had no real feeling of cohesion at the end, and suspect that the viewer wasn’t supposed to feel that. The alienation is particularly acute for Wes, of course, but I think it’s there for the others, too, hence the fact that the dampening carries over into scenes without Wes’s POV. I think Spike has some immunity from this (as I believe he did in canon), but that’s mostly because he was already, to some extent, an outsider in this group anyway. Hopefully, we’ll see emotional connections and interactions (not necessarily of the hopping-into-bed variety ) strengthen as the result of events during the story. I’m very pleased you picked up on this. Riff.
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Post by Pixi on Apr 3, 2005 7:44:06 GMT -5
I’m pleased you liked Spike in this chap. I know who I think he is (though that’s complicated), but it’s just my opinion, and since this is such a Spike-centric site I was worried some people might think to themselves, “But that isn’t Spike!” Who is sending those robots is a good question, as is why they are sending them. Why now? Hmmm. As for being worried, I can tell you that it’s crunch time next week… Riff. Crunch time? Okay - now I'm worried. ;D But in a good way.
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Post by Karen on Apr 3, 2005 14:16:02 GMT -5
Wow! May I just say Wow! Great chapter. I must admit - I wasn't too happy with Spike flirting with Pammy at the beginning but whoosh bang the chapter then takes off like a firecracker. I loved the change of pace and it came at a good point in the story. And it was nice seeing it from Spike's eyes. Great job Riff - I'm glad I saved you for my last bit of reading. I had the same reaction to Spike/Pam flirtage. Loved the funny robot reaction when he found out what Pammy was. Riff - Loved the plot twist with the robots. I've always wondered if we were going to see them again. Totally worried about Wes's shaking and Lorne's return. Off to my planting and looking forward to the next chapter!
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Post by Riff on Apr 4, 2005 13:11:13 GMT -5
Crunch time? Okay - now I'm worried. ;D But in a good way. ;D Riff.
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Post by Riff on Apr 4, 2005 13:12:51 GMT -5
I had the same reaction to Spike/Pam flirtage. Loved the funny robot reaction when he found out what Pammy was. Riff - Loved the plot twist with the robots. I've always wondered if we were going to see them again. Totally worried about Wes's shaking and Lorne's return. Off to my planting and looking forward to the next chapter! *laughing* Who said you were supposed to like it? ;D What was the point of those robots? I have an idea, based in part on something the Roger Wyndham-Pryce robot said. But I’m not telling at the moment. And Wes. Let’s hope things go well for him in the next chapter… Thank you, Karen, and I look forward to reading what you thought of Chapter Five. Riff.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Apr 4, 2005 21:11:58 GMT -5
I’m pleased you liked Spike in this chap. I know who I think he is (though that’s complicated), but it’s just my opinion, and since this is such a Spike-centric site I was worried some people might think to themselves, “But that isn’t Spike!” Who is sending those robots is a good question, as is why they are sending them. Why now? Hmmm. As for being worried, I can tell you that it’s crunch time next week… Riff. I think your Spike is very very Spike - I loved your fourth chapter - it's all working really well for me!
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Post by Lola m on Apr 5, 2005 0:43:20 GMT -5
Riff – lovely work in chapters 3 and 4!
Like others before me, I am loving the interaction between Spike and Angel. “I wasn’t, really. A bit late for that. I was more of a neo-Romantic Revivalist.” Very cute. (And having Spike’s interior thoughts be expressed in poetic metaphor is just perfect – syllables and lines, style and meter.)
Spike Angel and Gunn listening to Wes’ explanation of Illyria’s paper was classic – “Yeah” “I can see that” “Sure”. And then Gunn’s request for the “punch line”. **snerk**
But then you turn the funny into the interesting, and weave it very nicely into canon. The lines about layers and wanting to see how deep she goes were always intended, I believe, to hint at the continuing existence of Fred in some manner. And the idea of questioning the validity of what Sparrow said is something I think we all should do.
And the robots are back! Yay! Way to go on cleaning up all the hanging plot threads from season 5!
But mostly, I think I’m loving most the little touches you are creating. Bits like “Fred is resourceful. She knows how to endure, how to hide” and “All the “I believe in fairies” talk was getting to him.”
Bravo, sir! I continue to look forward to each new chapter!
Lola
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Post by Riff on Apr 6, 2005 7:56:29 GMT -5
I think your Spike is very very Spike - I loved your fourth chapter - it's all working really well for me! I’m pleased Spike is Spike-like for you. Thank you, Patti! I hope it continues to work.
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Post by Riff on Apr 6, 2005 8:14:40 GMT -5
Riff – lovely work in chapters 3 and 4! Like others before me, I am loving the interaction between Spike and Angel. “I wasn’t, really. A bit late for that. I was more of a neo-Romantic Revivalist.” Very cute. (And having Spike’s interior thoughts be expressed in poetic metaphor is just perfect – syllables and lines, style and meter.) As soon as Spike sat up and decided he was going to talk about soul mates, his background as a poet came immediately into focus for me, and Erin my wonderful beta wisely encouraged me to build on that and to emphasise it more. We’ll perhaps see a little more of it as part of his arc. There’s no doubt of that in my mind. And that dream sequence is practically jumping up and down, screaming to Wes and the viewer that Fred is in there. And yet many viewers and, far more perplexingly, Wes himself didn’t pick up on this at all, not even as a remote possibility. That goes for all the other instances that suggest Fred’s presence. There’s something a bit odd about that. *smiles* I've tried my best to play with some of those threads. {{Lola}} It is wonderful that you enjoy some of those moments. As I look forward to learning what you think of them! Riff.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Apr 7, 2005 17:33:03 GMT -5
sigh....oh Riff...its just all so good. I DO love a happy ending, I DO!
And I just clapped my hands with your line about the shell game...oh my, how delicious! It makes everything fit and I'm rambling and its just great.
The gang is together, Fred is not gone, the songs were perfect - LOVED Lorne saying 'you do know Barry didn't write that. and the duet between blue and green...
so...when Wesley understood the equation - I have a theory about where you are going with that...the vision he had...but I am not going to say in case I'm right.
I'm already getting sad there are only four chapters to go.
Oh- another thing - I like that there is a mystery here too - that there is some antagonist to be discovered - raises your story yet another level.
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