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Post by Dalton on Jun 18, 2003 6:24:21 GMT -5
(This is an historic post.)
Topic area devoted to Spikaholics, Spuffyites, Spike shippers of all types, plus any James Marsters information. All information on relationships, behavior, physical/mental/emotional/spiritual qualities of Spike or JM welcome. Straying off topic not a problem here. Share your knowledge, insights, observations, speculations, or other information on our favorite character in or out of any episode.
Alexandra K. 12/7/2002
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Post by Dalton on Jun 18, 2003 6:26:01 GMT -5
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Post by Dalton on Jun 18, 2003 6:26:33 GMT -5
Alexandra – What a picture! I hope some good discussion is generated here, both fun & serious. Fun, because I like to laugh about theories involving Spike’s pants, and serious because he is one of the most subtly and complexly developed characters on TV. I am uncomfortable with the delusional undercurrent to the discussion at some Spike-centric sites– nasty vitriol is hurled at Marti Noxon or others whenever Spike or Buffy are less than saintly. The only person in my house with an interest in BtVS is my oldest (teen) son. He has good, artistic appreciation, but I can’t talk about Spike freely with him, for fear he’d notice my pupil dilation . I watched “Intervention” recently, with the Buffybot. This was a funny ep, with Marsters & Gellar at their best. But the picture of Spike’s loneliness and confusion was disturbing and so pathetic the first time I saw it –seeing it after Season 6, it was even more so. He wanted a Buffy who was all his, unable to resist his sinster charm. Be careful what you wish for, huh? I wonder what his ideal Buffy would be like now? I’m thinking what he wants most from Buffy now, maybe what he’s always wanted most, is death.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 18, 2003 6:30:19 GMT -5
Great idea to have a place to post intelligent Spike posts. He is such a complex and evolving character, made all the more evident by the repeats on FX. Not to mention that it is nice to have people to discuss what a hottie he is! In a mature and intelligent fashion, of course. I agree with your assessment of Intervention. I watched it last weekend and was struck by two things. Spike is at once pathetic and twisted. Twisted enough to make a sex toy, but pathetic enough to fill it with real information so he could relate to it on a personal, boyfriend/girlfriend level. He could have had Warren add all of Buffy's knowledge just in case the Scoobies found her(which of course they did), but it seems like he was really trying to make a companion for himself once he tired of the sex. The end of the episode where he won't let Buffybot/Buffy tell Glory about Dawn is where I completely fell under his spell. At that point he is more of a man than many men are. To me this foreshadowed what was to come.
Slightly off topic, but not by much, I finally saw Smashed this week. Steamy stuff aside ( and surprisingly steamy it was!) The look on Spike's face when he and Buffy finally "consumated" whatever they had says it all. The combined look of disbelief and love/lust leads you to believe that he never thought this would happen, innuendoes and practice with the Buffybot aside. Based on just that look, if I hadn't already know what would happen, I would have thought he had some chance at happiness. It amazes me what James Marsters can convey without saying a word.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 18, 2003 6:42:53 GMT -5
Sorry about the earlier post mishap- I for one was relieved to read that JM is closer to 40. It makes me feel less ambivalent about my attraction to him. I like other actors but there is something special about what he brings to the role.
I agree with what a previous poster, Rusty Goode had to say on the topic. "There has to be some sort of harmonic convergence of the primal mythology his character represents, ME's usually excellent writing, and the ability of JM to deliver that package on several levels."
Has anyone else out there seen jM in Winding Roads? It can be ordered from the website. The role isvery different from Spike. Actually he plays a lost,loser type whose bland convention and affability bring him into conflict with his lover.
I am also trying to find a way to order Amber Benson's Chance where he plays her roommate. Ideas anyone?
Ellie J.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 18, 2003 6:44:06 GMT -5
There a re numerous essays online analyzing the character of Spike which I think shows the unusual complexity of the character and, of course, the show's writing. One essay called, "The Comic anti-hero in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, or Silly Villain: Spike is for Kicks" follows his journey from villainy through outsider with comic insight to his goal of redemption. It is by Michelle Boyette. It is at an interesting web site called "Slayage - the On-Line International Journal of Buffy Studies": http:/www.slayage.tv/essays/slayage4/boyette.htm A second essay concentrates more on the sixth season and discusses "Kissing a Fool: Smashing, Wrecking, and Rebuilding Spike's Identity". It is by Rowan, written December 2001. This essay also analyzes Spike's journey. It is at another interesting web site: www.btvs-tabularasa.net/essays/KissingAFool.html Both these essays say in more depth what a lot of the viewers are experiencing in a similar manner. Alexandra K.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 18, 2003 6:45:00 GMT -5
I think a lot of women like me prefer it (and maybe a few men agree) when "something" is left to the imagination in onscreen love scenes. It's far more difficult to accurately and realistically convey such strong emotions with just mainly facial expressions (as in "Smashed") than to show sex scenes that leave NOTHING to the imagination. BUT having said that, I confess that James Marsters is truly a first with me - an exception in my case BECAUSE now I'm wondering... do you think he would ever do a Playgirl pictoral layout? ? Would you LIKE for him to? If so, would you like to see "the full Monty" or maybe slightly more than we've seen on tv (and in more close-up, well-focused shots)? I'm sure SPIKE would do it... we know HE's not modest. ;-) But I remember one (interview where JM said he gets far more nervous singing in front of people than he does "dropping trou" as an actor. Maybe a better question might be do you think the editors of Playgirl would even offer something like that to him (a "he's too old" mentality, not a "hell he's hot!" mentality)?
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Post by Dalton on Jun 18, 2003 6:48:40 GMT -5
Gia, I think one other "moment" that gives the scene in Smashed a run for its money is the moment in Afterlife where Buffy is coming down the stairs as Spike watches. The moment of recognition, shock, and happiness is really incredible. Again, without saying a word. As for the last post re. a Playgirl spread, I'd doubt that JM would do it. He seems to be a pretty private guy.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 18, 2003 6:55:31 GMT -5
That look was priceless. The little shocked tilt of the head and narrowing of the eyes as Buffy came down the stairs spoke louder than words. Were those tears I saw in his eyes? I also love the way Spike isn't afraid to cry. Priceless scenes include:
Sobbing when Buffy jumped off that big metal thingny of Glory's.
Crying when the Scoobies brought Buffy back without telling him first. Is there anything more threatening than being thrown up against a tree by a man with tears in his eyes?
I'm sure there are more that don't come to mind right now.
Oh yes, when Buffy threw the money at him in the alley at the end of Fool for Love.
And do I even have to mention the church...
Edited By Watergal =^..^= at 12/9/2002 9:41:00 AM.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 18, 2003 6:56:34 GMT -5
Another really good essay on the Online Slayage site is: "Every Night I Save You": Buffy, Spike, Sex & Redemption.
Would love to discuss this one and the others Alexandra mentioned, but need to give them a re-read before I try posting any thoughts. -------------------
Some of my favorite "looks on Spike's face" are:
CRUSH: When he hits that barrier at the end - he manages surprise, disbelief, pleading, hurt . . .all in about two seconds.
AS YOU WERE: When Buffy breaks up with him and you see it dawning on him that this time, she means it, he's really lost her.
As far as Playgirl, well . . . we have seen almost every inch of his body already - and I dunno . . . I'd rather leave some mystery. I also agree that he wouldn't do it; I get the impression he isn't that big into presenting himself as a sex symbol.
Spring Summers
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Post by Dalton on Jun 18, 2003 7:05:56 GMT -5
I also remember an interview where he said something like nudity has never bothered him. He'd drop his pants for a nickel. Having said that, and after a bit of pondering of the issue, I think I would have to come down on the side of keeping the mystery. It's a tough call but I guess I'll vote for the imagination over reality. (My imagination, anyway.) Playgirl does do layouts where the featured celebrity does not "drop his pants." That would be great. We all have a visual anyway. In "Wrecked" (Season 6), the next morning in the rubble, Buffy accuses him of thinking he is God's gift and he replies something like, "Not hardly. It wouldn't be as interesting." Buffy then says, "You're bent." And Spike replies, "And it made you scream." So there we have it. Season 6 really pushed the envelope for an 8 PM time slot.
Actually I'm waiting for the bloopers.
Alexandra
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Post by Dalton on Jun 18, 2003 7:06:41 GMT -5
I cant believe I missed that look in Afterlife. I watched that one on FX while it was running instead of taping it and I switch the channels if my little girl comes in or needs something so I must have missed it. I usually leave it on if its an earlier one and its not a scary part, but as soon as there is anything remotely scaring looking or sounding I change it. I've missed quite a few good parts that way, so now I'm taping all of them and watching after she goes to bed. Especially since season 6 is so steamy and season 7 is more gory. Two other memorable looks I thought of were at the end of The Gift when the Spike sees Buffy's body laying there and the most recent one in Never Leave Me when she says she believes in him. Is that what Cassie meant when she said "Someday she'll tell you"? I missed it if there was any discussion of that on the other boards.
The only other actor that I can think of whose facial expressions convey as much as James Marsters' do would be Harrison Ford in his earlier movies. Now he just seems to look annoyed all the time but in Star Wars where Leia kisses him and numerous times in the Indiana Jones movies and even in Working Girl, he conveys that same surprised/ end of the world happiness look. Since he was my first movie crush, the ability to give a look like that must have something to do with what appeals to me.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 18, 2003 7:09:44 GMT -5
The “you’re bent” exchange made me smile for days. We get another visual from Spike’s eagerness to bare all to Riley, and Riley’s uptight reaction in “As You Were”. Also, Alexandra, you’re waiting for the bloopers to be shown? As Jonathan once said to Spike: “Is that some kind of British slang?” ‘Cause I don’t think they’re gonna show them.
I too have the impression that James is pretty casual about nudity, but also that he isn’t into seeing himself as a sex symbol. If you have the Season II DVD, select the Marti N commentary option, and watch when Spike enters the scene after Dru has been pouring holy water over Angel’s chest (What’s My Line Part II-?). Marti says something about James being “such a dear”. She says they talked when he was very upset about a romantic breakup – that he didn’t seem to realize it would be easy for him to find a new love. The commentary ends with Marti saying: “Uh, James!! You’re hot!”
When you genuinely don’t have a conceited bone in your body, while at the same time you have everything to be conceited about, it’s a rare combination. It’s endearing, it’s irresistible, it’s deadly.
I have seen James “as himself” only once, in the 2002 Emmy pre-show on E!. He gave a tour of the BtVS set. He seemed almost . . . geeky – but sexy geeky. I loved it.
Spring Summers
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Post by Dalton on Jun 18, 2003 7:17:52 GMT -5
: ... “Intervention” recently, with the Buffybot. ... the picture of Spike’s loneliness and confusion was disturbing and so pathetic the first time I saw it –seeing it after Season 6, it was even more so...I wonder what his ideal Buffy would be like now? I’m thinking what he wants most from Buffy now, maybe what he’s always wanted most, is death. : What I find most appealing and telling about Spike with the Buffybot in season 5 vs. Spike with the real Buffy in season 6 is that he is so tender with the 'bot. There is no fighting except a very playful and brief moment.
Every encounter with the real Buffy begins with a physical battle and ends with broken furniture and bruises on both parties. The rough stuff with the real Buffy is not Spike's preference. He responds that way because it seems to be what she wants. Which maybe gives an added insight into the AR.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 18, 2003 7:18:58 GMT -5
Next week's TV guide places JM at #50. Yeah, yeah, I agree that he should be higher on the list, but I'm pleased that he was recognized at all.
Athene V
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