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Post by Dalton on Jun 30, 2003 17:20:10 GMT -5
I agree with you Spring-I choose to credit him with both, the good and the bad. He has done both, willingly. I too look forward to Spike becoming his own person. In the FFL he had a nebbish, lost-in-the-clouds type personality. I wouldn't want him to completely go back to that, but to find a balance of loving himself before he devotes his all to someone else
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Post by Dalton on Jun 30, 2003 17:20:54 GMT -5
I think the AR resolved something for Spike. Up until then he accepted that he was driven by the demon in him and didn't much care. He sloughed off the responsibility for his own actions onto his demon (and yes, I think two entities are crowded into Spike's body.) With the AR even Spike couldn't look past his actions and throw the responsibility off onto his demon. For the first time, his actions appalled even him. (Don't ask me why torture, murder, etc. of men, women, and children never hit him before.) To himself he had a mantra that he would never hurt Buffy. He believed that of himself absolutely. The AR woke him up to his reality - he really, really was a demon, and couldn't trust himself to even play by his own rules, "No hurting the girl". He probably thought he was more man than monster, at least toward Buffy - other people were not of interest to him, except maybe Dawn. He told Buffy, "I know I'm a monster, but you treat me like a man..." in Season 5 "The Gift", and I believe he was convinced he was living up to that concept.
The AR shattered that for him. Instead of spiraling downward into his demon side though, he made another rather heroic decision. He couldn't be a man or a monster, so he went after a soul to try to be more a man, not let the monster take over. A lot of the decision was for Buffy, but not all, I think. William was surfacing after 100+ years of being submerged in Spike. He will never be the William he was (thank heaven) but the two personas coming together, balancing each other might finally make a rather wonderful person if he lives past the Apocalypse.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 30, 2003 17:21:38 GMT -5
In full agreement here. I think the man Spike will become will be a mixture of the diabetically sweet William and the arrogantly sure of himself Spike and I think he will be all the better for it. When Spike is lucid right now, he seems to be quite charming, caring and still a little interesting. and Alexandra-- you used one of my favourite words: sloughed or sloughing are lovely. I like words that don't look like the way they are pronounced. I also enjoy other engineering words that make their way into everyday speech. "Throttle" for instance meens an entirely different thing to Spring Summers and me. (Flashbacks to thermodynamics anyone?)
Anywho, I digress...
Watergal =^..^=
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Post by Dalton on Jun 30, 2003 17:22:20 GMT -5
I think Buffy sees (saw) the AR as something between her and Spike, something that was the result of his obsession and her rejection. As such, rape wasn't a universal threat to anybody Spike might have contact with, especially Dawn. Nonetheless we don't know if the chip works with Dawn's green, swirly key molecules because Spike has never gone after her. Also, no one else seems to know why Spike could hurt Buffy. Instead Xander, at least, thinks the chip must not be working if Spike can hurt anyone (when punched unconscious he didn't see the pain that resulted).
If Morphy can block the chip's pain when he's controlling Spike, why not just block the chip all the time? If he's into chaos why restrain the possibility in any way? Since really choosing good or evil involves having complete free will, it's time to zap the chip and put Spike out there without a net.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 30, 2003 17:23:01 GMT -5
I do think that soulful Spike could be a wonderful sight to behold, with the right blend of William and Spike (i.e., William’s moral compass and sensitivity, Spike’s confidence, strength and boldness). But just what role will he be in? What is going to happen to Spike? Will he die? Who thinks what?
If Marsters finds himself out of work, I can use an assistant who specializes in Physical Chemistry. Water gal, I am thinking the word “superheated” could take on a whole new meaning for me!
But seriously - all the signs point to the ultimate sacrifice for our Blondie Bear – you know, he sacrifices himself to save the world after a nice farewell snog from Buffy.
On the one hand, we have all the crucifixion poses and pleading for death, etc. On the other hand, I can’t see Joss letting Marsters go if he wants to stay (does he?, will there be a spinoff of some kind?).
Someone mentioned Spike moving to “Angel” as a regular, but L.A. just isn’t big enough for two souled vampires, especially when the show is named “Angel”, but the biggest show-stealer would be named “Spike”. Gellar is a woman and Buffy’s not a souled vampire, so she’s held her own. Spike is popular, but it’s still HER show. Boreanaz would have a much harder time.
Maybe a spin-off where Dawn is a Slayer and Spike is a kind of father-figure/watcher like Giles - only more involved in the fighting, and more shirtless? But then how would Xander & Willow fit in?
I don’t know if I like that idea. I may have to send James a very special job application for him to fill out (is asking for detailed body measurements against employment law?).
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 0:31:41 GMT -5
Since I don't know if hard core speculation is considered a SPOILER on this board, thought I'd put the caveat in the title. I have no foreknowledge, therefore this is not a true spoiler, but this my hope for the future of Spike. SHANSU SHANSU SHANSU. Spike makes that ultimate sacrifice. He dusts himself to save Buffy/the world. Spike to dust. Cut to commercial. Only, when we return to our regularly scheduled programming, the dust swirls, and as it clears, stands...William. Preferably naked. But human. It would be a wonderful way to end the series, if the series is indeed ending. (Rumor has it some big bucks are being thrown SMG's way to stay on, so don't count her out just yet). And if the series is moving forward, what a wonderful new role for William. I could definitely see him as a watcher figure. Learning to love himself.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 0:32:15 GMT -5
I actually think it would be interesting to see him on Angel. I really loved when he and Spike were in scenes together on Buffy-especially when Boreanaz is playing Angelus, he does BAD so GOOD. They have so much history together and they've shared so many things, bloodlust, Crazy D (Drusilla) and all things Buffy!! That conversation alone is worth it. Spring I know you don't watch Angel, but he has gotten better as an actor. If his character wasn't so closely written, he might have some room to breathe. Yet he does well with what he has. The writing this season has been completely off, when Joss finally stepped in and took over, it was like watching a death row convict have his sentence overturned! Spike would definately raise the standards a lot. He and Wesley would be excellent together as well. The vampire who is seeking redemption and the ex-Watcher who is on dangerous ground sleeping with Lilah. Getting your throat cut can sure change a man
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 0:33:09 GMT -5
Believe it or not I never thought of Spike having his own spinoff. Story-wise having him fulfill the prophecy and end the series riding off into the sunset with Buffy would be the perfect romantic ending. But James Marsters-wise, I was actually hoping they wouldn't end up together so he could at least guest on Angel (preferably every week!) But it probably would usurp the attention from Angel too much. His own series sounds like a much better idea. Either way, hopefully they find a way to extend his character since they have invested so much into it.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 0:34:41 GMT -5
As wonderful as Spike/William is I can't see a totally Spikecentric series that wouldn't be too much like Angel (but better, of course, bcz--it's Spike!). I could see them paring Spike with Dawn as her watcher but where's the shirt off snarking and sexual tension in that? It just turns him into a more physical version of Giles with a little sister on his hands. I think the best spin off would be putting Spike together with Giles on Ripper. Now Ripper's underlying motif seems like it will be about Giles isolation and aloneness. But if Spike and he had a partnership of sorts, where JM could be both redeemed but snarky, with a kind of impulsive sarcastic younger brother/exasperated older brother relationship (that slight feeling of disappointment)as they sussed out supernatural occurrances...that would work for me. Also, let James grow out his hair a bit! I liked the two toned look falling over his forehead in the 1st ep of the season. It makes him look younger and more vulnerable, and hides the lines on his forehead. They're cutting and slicking back the blond so tight to his head lately I think his ears are going to need to file a flight plan
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 0:36:48 GMT -5
Call it "Malibu P.I.". James Marsters (we'll call the character James) is an extremely wealthy (inherited) dilettante with a degree in British poetry (huh? what?) He is happily married (sorry, folks) to a very intelligent, pretty but not beautiful, woman with a PhD in computer science from MIT. They are equals in their enjoyment of life, and risk-taking. Life is so easy being rich that it has become a bit boring. {I am picturing an updated Nick and Nora Charles type of relationship - elegant, sophisticated - between the two of them they are casually, but definitely, a pair in public but behind closed doors the steam fogs the TV screen.) James and wife accidentally help another rich type with a personal problem and their new personae are born. They liked the problem-solving, they liked helping their friend, but they REALLY liked the adrenaline rush of the dangerous situation they got into. And out of. The scenario is in the midst of the ultrarich in LA where James can sleuth his way into the poshest parties (or onto Skid Row for variety). His wife can find info in most any computer system when they are searching for clues. James can wear his hair longer, curly, and two-toned. He can have a tan and go to the beach (both on and off the episodes)and wear swimsuits. The character James will pay the same careful attention to his wife that Spike did to Dru. James' wife is not always going to like his overprotectiveness so we get a bit of marital tension. Word of their success with the rich friend slowly gets around and other people approach the couple to help them. I am picturing someone like Alyson Hannigan for the wife. From interviews I understand she is much more fiery than her character on Buffy. Imagine Vampire Willow. She's familiar to viewers who might be able to make the jump to the new series with two well-liked actors from BtVS. I could add details but that's the general setup. Anyone want to design a new series for James Marsters as Spike or as another character? This is all in aid of keeping him on the TV screen somewhere if, or when, BtVS ends. And I wonder if James Marsters looks as good in a tux as he does naked? Nah...
Call it "Malibu P.I.". James Marsters (we'll call the character James) is an extremely wealthy (inherited) dilettante with a degree in British poetry (huh? what?) He is happily married (sorry, folks) to a very intelligent, pretty but not beautiful, woman with a PhD in computer science from MIT. They are equals in their enjoyment of life, and risk-taking. Life is so easy being rich that it has become a bit boring. {I am picturing an updated Nick and Nora Charles type of relationship - elegant, sophisticated - between the two of them they are casually, but definitely, a pair in public but behind closed doors the steam fogs the TV screen.) James and wife accidentally help another rich type with a personal problem and their new personae are born. They liked the problem-solving, they liked helping their friend, but they REALLY liked the adrenaline rush of the dangerous situation they got into. And out of. The scenario is in the midst of the ultrarich in LA where James can sleuth his way into the poshest parties (or onto Skid Row for variety). His wife can find info in most any computer system when they are searching for clues. James can wear his hair longer, curly, and two-toned. He can have a tan and go to the beach (both on and off the episodes)and wear swimsuits. The character James will pay the same careful attention to his wife that Spike did to Dru. James' wife is not always going to like his overprotectiveness so we get a bit of marital tension. Word of their success with the rich friend slowly gets around and other people approach the couple to help them. I am picturing someone like Alyson Hannigan for the wife. From interviews I understand she is much more fiery than her character on Buffy. Imagine Vampire Willow. She's familiar to viewers who might be able to make the jump to the new series with two well-liked actors from BtVS. I could add details but that's the general setup. Anyone want to design a new series for James Marsters as Spike or as another character? This is all in aid of keeping him on the TV screen somewhere if, or when, BtVS ends. And I wonder if James Marsters looks as good in a tux as he does naked? Nah...
Alexandra K.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 0:37:02 GMT -5
Torah – I don’t think David B. is a bad actor. I liked him as Angel and I loved him as Angelus. I love the Angel/Dru/Spike scenes. I also would pay good money to see some guest-shot crossovers! I hope Joss can make it happen. Oh, how I would love to see Angel, Spike & Buffy together, with Angel finding out about the lots ‘o sex and the soul. Whew. I wonder how that would go? Any thoughts anyone? As far as dropping Spike into “Angel” as a regular – well, it would be the equivalent of if, back in Season 3 Buffy, Faith had become a permanent, regular player. All of a sudden, the series has Two Slayers, every week, indefinitely. Faith is every bit as charismatic and interesting as Buffy, if not more. It would have changed the series in a very fundamental way.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 0:38:53 GMT -5
I LOVE the idea of Spike & Giles teaming up in a spin-off. But if “Ripper” happens, I think it will shoot in England. I read something about Tony Head wanting to stay with his children and family in England. Marsters could very well have similar reasons to stay in America. I think he has at least one child, because I read that he’s decided to keep entirely mum on this subject – which is exactly the kind of decision only a parent would make. So a Spike & Giles spin-off may have to remain a sweet dream. Speaking of America though, has anyone else noticed that Spike seems to think of himself as an American? There is an episode in which he tells Buffy he is staying in Sunnydale despite her objections because “it’s a free country”. And he objects to Riley’s search of his crypt for demon eggs by saying “it’s unconstitutional!!”. He’s undead and British to boot, but he seems to believe American protections extend to him. In Tabula Rasa, unlike Giles, he thinks he is an American at first, until he gets an external clue from the way everyone is staring at him. I think the way Spike feels at home in America is deliberate and meant to symbolize Spike’s very stereotypical “American” personality – young, rash, bold, swaggering, modern, violent but caring, etc.
Spring Summers
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 0:40:20 GMT -5
Okay, I really have absolutely nothing constructive to add. I simply felt the urge to write a thank you note. I proctored a 4h exam last night that ended at 11:30pm. For those of you who have never done this, it is the most brain numbing experience ever, especially when it is an open book exam and there is little chance of anyone wanting to cheat. (darn it, at least that would have added some excitement!) Thank you Alexandra K. for giving me a good giggle this morning. You have made my day. I look forward to discussing next weeks new BtVS episode
Watergal =^..^=
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 0:41:03 GMT -5
I don't want him to be a regular, but I would love to see him on the show. He could pop in whenever he felt the need. He knows Angel in ways few want or need to know. Imagine the stories he could tell Connor! But...I do see your point. If Faith had become a regular the focus would have shifted, that doesn't have to be a negative thing though. Joss seems to be able to pull off anything. In the short time Faith was on the show, the contrast between her and Buffy was amazing and she brought out a side of Buffy that no one had been able to do. Buffy spent season 6 in a similiar downward spiral that Faith went through in season 3. It would have been interesting to get her take on that whole situation.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 0:41:57 GMT -5
Ripper would have to be in England because that's kind of the point/premis. Ancient creepiness must abound. JM would love Bath and he probably wouldn't be in every ep. More a regular guest star. That would give him time to annoy Angel periodicaly and do other projects. If he Shanshus I hope its only a partial shuing (halfsoul?), so he can keep his vamp strength and maybe be able to fang out, but still walk in the light. He could reconnect with the demon snitches in England and bring Giles info from the dark side. I'd also love to see him as a arch and snarky movie villain in the tradition of Alan Rickman and bad Spike with a Dru type relationship with his co-nemisis (without the craziness).
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