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Post by Dalton on Jun 23, 2003 22:51:48 GMT -5
Another favorite I just had to mention. This is from "Crush":
Buffy & Spike are in the lair of the two vamps. Buffy confronts Spike with the idea that he thinks this is a DATE. I LOVE the way he replies: "A DATE? Are you completely off your bird??? - do ya want it to be?"
And then the rest of the scene, both SMG and JM at their best with the back and forth ("You're like a serial killer in prison!!" "Women marry 'em all the time!!", etc.)
Nan, interesting notion about a "bad" Spike scene. I like just about every glimpse I ever get, so that is a hard one . . . for some reason, I didn't much like that scene at the Bronze in "Conversations With Dead People", where he's looking for the dead blonde, and he fights and stakes that female vamp who claims she sired him, etc.
Here's another one I really like: The "apology" to the mannequin that goes so horribly awry!
Spring Summers
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Post by Dalton on Jun 23, 2003 22:52:58 GMT -5
I need somone to explain to me why both Angel and Spike in Seasons 1 and 7 said they wanted to kill Buffy, " “I wanted to kill you tonight.” "I dreamt of killing you."
I guess I'm dumb as mud on the intricacies of vampire psychology. (Obviously why I'm not Chair of the Nosfersychology Department.)
Didn't they both have souls by then? I'm confused.
Alexandra K.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 23, 2003 22:54:58 GMT -5
Spring said, "I didn't much like that scene at the Bronze in "Conversations With Dead People", where he's looking for the dead blonde, and he fights and stakes that female vamp who claims she sired him, etc."
I agree. I didn't like that scene up on the balcony but I couldn't really tell you why. Maybe because it proved Spike was killing people? Nah, I think it was a more basic reason. It felt kinda staged, unreal, unnecessary even. That's the best I can come up with.
Alexandra K.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 23, 2003 22:56:19 GMT -5
I didn't like the female vamp much and couldn't imagine Manchurian Candidate Spike chatting her up to pass the time. She was too much Grrrr and no finesse. Plus he stakes her with a really big piece of bamboo and it's very obvious there's no wound in her chest as she goes over the balconey. When she dusts in front of the band and everybody stops and then continues on like it's just another night with exploding vamps was good.
Rusty Goode
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Post by Dalton on Jun 23, 2003 22:57:13 GMT -5
Of course I am very busy with both my presidential duties and extensive field work, but since I am often invited to lecture in the Nosferopsychology Department on the subject of my best selling book "Vampires Who Love Too Much" ($29.95, available at bookstores near you) I will venture a theory.
When you are irresistably drawn to someone or something against your will, and against what you believe is your basic nature, you hate the "weakness" in yourself that allows that person to have so much power over you. You want the feeling of powerlessness to stop. As an actual live person you might attempt to drive away, or fantasize killing the object that causes you such conflict and pain. Since vampires don't view death as a metaphor (they *are* the metaphor),the desire to kill the love object is an actual threat.
Rusty Goode
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Post by Dalton on Jun 23, 2003 23:37:09 GMT -5
MICHELLE, great quote from Nick B, thanks for sharing. I wonder how old James’ son is? I’m thinking teenager, associating his parenthood with those youthful indiscretion stories he tells, but maybe that is unfair. Whatever his story is, he just exudes hardwon, genuine confidence and happiness these days. This added tidbit about being a good enough dad for Nick B to comment he’s in awe – geez. What an all around, head-to-toe sexy package. I sigh and swoon, I swoon and sigh.
ALEXANDRA: Well . . I could be way off on the writer’s intent, and this is much like what Rusty is saying - but here’s my theory why variations on the line “I wanted to kill you” are on both Angel and Spike’s lips when they have similar confrontations with Buffy:
The revelation he (Spike or Angel) is going to be making to Buffy is that he has a soul – a soul that causes him endless torment. Maybe the “I wanted to kill you” is about wanting to end that torment, associating Buffy with goodness & therefore the soul.
Maybe he is telling Buffy basically “Sometimes I want to kill this part of me that tortures me so endlessly, it would all be so much easier without it (you)”.
And maybe killing Buffy – the top warrior for the side of good AND someone he has come to love deeply – represents freedom from the pain. If only he could bring himself to kill BUFFY, it might mean he had truly freed himself from that pesky, painful soul. And when he says “I dreamt of killing you” he is saying that in that possibility, he was, for a moment, tempted.
Spring Summers
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Post by Dalton on Jun 23, 2003 23:39:29 GMT -5
Okay, so Rusty and Spring are telling me that the vampires are saying, " I love you, but I don't want to love you because it conflicts with everything about me, making me miserable. So I want to kill you."
Yes?
Alexandra K.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 23, 2003 23:41:40 GMT -5
The scene in "Intervention" where Spike's laying on his back on top of a sarcophagus in his crypt, and he wriggles the tip of his tongue against his upper lip (...ooooohhhh...) in part of foreplay with the BuffyBot who's gleefully sitting astride him prentending to be ready to stake him. (but we know who's about ready to get "impaled"...)
If you're wondering why, you're too young to know. ;-)
Miss Pamela
Edited By Miss Pamela at 1/14/2003 2:37:00 AM.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 23, 2003 23:45:21 GMT -5
Last I read, James Marsters has a 14 year old cat named Zachary. He says Zachary lets him pet him more now because Zachary's getting on in years and not so feisty any more (and no comments on who else would like to be petted.)
I am very partial to men who like cats. Having a long time relationship with one cat gives immense brownie points to JM. I wonder if his son is at least a teen and if JM has always been a total parent? Fans will have to wait until JM's a big movie star and then all the tiny details of his life will be reported in Entertainment Weekly. Of course, what have we left to learn? No underwear, size nine and a half shoe, a cat... we have it all. Oh...well... maybe not ALL. ______________________________________________________________________________ 85 Intervention - Another Scene 1/14/2003 2:41:06 AM Alexandra K. In "Intervention", Spike is standing next to the door to his crypt. He is leaning with both shoulders up against the wall smoking a cigarette with his hair all tousled. Someone comes to the door, and Buffybot rises from below him. I didn't catch that the first time around. At some point there, I think he fastens his belt. Not even remotely subtle. Just shy of blatant because the Buffybot was almost out of the picture.
Amazing the variety of things Spike had Warren program into the Buffybot. Yeah, yeah, okay, probably the FIRST thing Spike had Warren program.
Alexandra K.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 23, 2003 23:48:17 GMT -5
I have a question for all you Spikeaholics. Now that he's rescued and back in the fold, do you think they'll take the time for some fence-mending between he and other Scoobs besides Buffy? I'd like to see he and Dawn getting along again, for one thing. I thought their interaction was adorable. Secondly I think it's long overdue for he and Xander to accept each other. In "Him", they showed they can work together quite well when they have to, and Xander avoided piling on him too heavily when they were all together at Buffy's. The writers seem to enjoy having them snap at each other, but it's starting to wear on me a little. One scene of grudging reconciliation is on my wish list. It wouldn't take long; just one 90 second scene where Spike acknowledges regret for Xander witnessing he and Anya's Magic Box Experience, while Xander acknowledges Spike's love and sacrifice for Buffy. Is that too much to ask from the writers? They're obviously not going to be best buds, but if Xander has truly grown up he can learn to get along with Spike in a way he never managed to do with Angel....as long as Spike meets him halfway and learns to treat Xandman with some respect. They share love and devotion to Buffy, and for her sake they should bury the hatchet.
Rob Sorenson
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Post by Dalton on Jun 23, 2003 23:57:30 GMT -5
I thought this scene was fine... and I really liked the music. Actually, I went out and bought the Aimee Mann CD.
but, I don't know if I can think of a Spike scene I didn't like, in answer to Nan's question.
Didn't enjoy because it made me squirm, though yes. Like the final scene in Crush, where he runs into the barrier. I don't have any desire to rewind and watch it over and over. I know that he's doing awful things in this episode... but I can't help myself, my sympathies are with him anyway.
Julie A
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Post by Dalton on Jun 24, 2003 0:04:07 GMT -5
Alexandra, you so seriously ROCK!
Thank you. I might have been able to come up with the episodes, but when I'm at work, I'm already wasting time. Thanks!
Diane U
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Post by Dalton on Jun 24, 2003 0:05:06 GMT -5
:I need somone to explain to me why both Angel and Spike in Seasons 1 and 7 said they wanted to kill Buffy, " “I wanted to kill you tonight.” "I dreamt of killing you." :
Both vampires are talking about their feelings vs. their instinctive urges. Angel carries it further when he can tell Buffy's bleeding because he can smell it.
Not bad for a creature that doesn't need to breathe.
Diane U
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Post by Dalton on Jun 24, 2003 0:06:04 GMT -5
ALEXANDRA: Yes, I agree with your summary on why Angel & Spike say "I wanted to kill you". I wanted to add something else I think is at play when Angel & Spike say "I wanted to kill you": BtVS writers link sex & death over and over (upholding a long literary tradition). This is especially well established with Spike (Fool For Love is absolutely packed with dialogue and images that link them, in Season 6, Buffy longs for Spike=Sex=Death). So I think that connection is part of the picture here as well. Angel & Spike are saying I wanted you, I wanted to obliterate you, consume you, be obliterated, consumed, etc. Cause we all know what the only thing better than killing a Slayer is.
XANDER & THE SCOOBIES: Robert, you are a brave guy venturing into these waters. I definitely do want to see some acceptance and understanding build between Spike & the Scoobies. There's already a positive foundation of a sort with each of them that could be built upon. They do have a much stronger relationship with Spike than they ever had with Angel. He's been a lot like them, modern & American (in attitude and presentation) right from the start.
I don't want to see an end to the Xander/Spike sniping at each other though - these two are just too funny when it's working right. It could take on a more good natured tone, definitely.
That reminds me - another scene I like - Spike confronting Xander, in the graveyard about his "Big Exit" - I like the way they get right in each other's face.
Spring Summers
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Post by Dalton on Jun 24, 2003 0:07:03 GMT -5
:...Now that he's rescued and back in the fold, do you think they'll take the time for some fence-mending between he and other Scoobs besides Buffy? :
I also miss the Spike/Dawn interaction. It was my first indication that Spike had REAL feelings that weren't put on for others' benefit. I felt for him many times before that, but never trusted him. It was hard to know what was real and what was interaction with/because of the chip or was Buffyimpressingism. When he began interacting with Dawn, that was REAL. His nicknames for her, "Little Bit" and "Niblet" were positively avuncular and very sweet. Even when he was helping her do things that were wrong, it was always with an eye that she needed his protection.
I'm also with you on the Spike/Xander relationship. Next to Buffy, Xander's been the hardest on Spike of all the Scoobies. No matter what Spike does, no matter how serious his intention might be, Xander has always greeted Spike with vituperation. I think the worst was during "The Body" when Spike was bringing flowers in memory of Joyce and Xander mercilessly lit into him in front of the other Scoobies. The only exceptions to Xander's vitriol have been mid-emergency...when he NEEDED Spike. I'd like to see some acknowledgement there. And, yes, I'd like to see an apology from Spike about his one-nighter with Anya.
I'm good for hatchet-burial, as long as it isn't in each other.
Diane U
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