The Soulful Spike Society Part 7

[Dalton]

Welcome to the unhallowed ground of the Soulful Spike Society (SSS or 'S' cubed). Topic area devoted to Spikaholics, Spuffyites, Spike shippers of all types, plus any James Marsters information. All information on relationships, behavior, physical/mental/emotional/spiritual qualities of Spike or JM welcome. Share your knowledge, insights, observations, speculations, or other information on our favorite character in or out of any episode.

Straying off topic not a problem here. We welcome posts on any other aspect of the BtVS series also. See also "All Things Spike/James Marsters" (Parts 1-6) farther down the Miscellaneous Board. Supplementary archival web site for The Soulful Spike Society is available at: www.soulfulspike.com
Again, welcome!

Alexandra K.

[Dalton]

As season seven progresses, I was hoping that the change in Spike due to his new soul would be reflected in the change in his hair. As "Lessons" started, we saw Spike with curls and his hair was darker. But by the second episode, Spike had his bleached blonde, straightened hair again. I am still hoping that his hair will become a bit curlier and the roots will grow out with each episode.

[Dalton]

I'd like to ask people's opinions. Conjecture has been made that Spike might be made human at the end of the season or the end of the series, or something like that. I would like to ask everyone what they think of this idea. Would it detract from Spike's character? Would people still be interested in watching a much less powerful Spike?

I can see if they planned on continuing the series without SMG and using either a SIT or Dawn as the main character, how his becoming human could be played out, with him in the Watcher's seat.

How do people think that Spike would feel about losing his vampiric abilities? His strength, his quickness. He has been banned to the darkness for over a hundred years now and I have to say I have never really heard him complain about having to exist only at night. I think that he wants to be human much less than having a soul. Losing hte ability to get a suntan seems hardly a bad trade off for immortality, super strength, hearing, smell, and quickness. Sure, he has the guilt of killing all those people in the last hundred years, but like angel, it is something he can try to atone for. And having those aforementioned powers would make it a little easier, seems to me, if he is going to follow somewhat in Angel's footsteps.

Weigh in people, I would like to hear your thoughts.

Edited By Vlad I at 1/25/2003 1:11:00 AM.

[Dalton]

Me too :-)

[Dalton]

I doubt we'll ever see Spike's hair return to to it's former slicked back glory, completely. *sigh* Shame, 'cause I always rather liked it. There was somethign about that hair, the Billy Idol snarl on his lip, the smoldering cigarette and that big black leather duster that just blared "SPIKE." (Shivers, wondering jsut how much of Andrew he is channeling)

But unfortunately now that Spike is good, he is losing all the trappings of Spike. The duster (unlike a posting I saw somewhere that said they figured it was in storage til the end of the season, waiting for hte BIG ENTRANCE) I think is toast. He got it by killing a slayer and it was a trophy of his evil ways. So, I doubt that we'll see him donning it again.

The cigarette is also gone. I am not sure why, because I doubt vampires can develop lung cancer. (Maybe it's because Buffy didn't like the taste of it on his mouth?) But there's no doubt that, to Spike, the smoking was a bad habit, much like his evil ways, and so, it is gone. Ditto, the lighter and anyone of this day and age and that ever smoked, knows what a talisman a Zippo lighter is. Heck, they even showed us what a memento it was for Buffy, when she slipped it into Spike's pocket while she was agonizing over him.

Then we have the hair. Oh, the evil slicked back hair. Well, obviously slicked back hair is evil. Always has been. It's the preferred hair style of wall street brokers and used car salesmen. It just screams Eeeevil! *L* So, there goes the hair. Can't have that, cause Spike is a neutered tom now, he is. All good and what not.

So finally, that leaves us the sneer. Well, barring a good argument with the Buffster ove somethign she does to him that's completely asinine, I doubt we'll be seeing much of that sneer. And what with Spike now being all resigned that Buffy is his friend but not his lover, I jsut don't see the kind of passion that causes such wonderful sneering smugness that results from a lover's quarrel.

Yep, Spike is gone...I am not sure what we have left. Could be for the better, but, I am gonna miss him.

Edited By Vlad I at 1/25/2003 1:29:00 AM.

[Dalton]

I'm not sure if Spike as human would be the most interesting, but I am convinced that if James Marsters plays him, no matter what happens I'm still going to want to watch him. And I'm not saying that just because he's hot, I just think he puts so much into playing the character that he ends up being the one I can't take my eyes off no matter what's going on. (As I think I said before, when I first saw him, I didn't immediately think, oh what a hottie.)

I mean, I don't know if I would have believed his character would have worked having a soul, either. Or not being able to hit people. He's just gone through so many changes that have managed to work. I still think they work even though I do often miss various stages of Spike that are gone. I think things have to change to remain interesting, but that does mean that if something was really great before, you can't retain all of it. (but the great thing about TV as opposed to life is that you have more than memories, you have reruns.)

I think there's a lot of comic potential in how he would get used to not having superabilities, and his reaction to food, his reflection, etc. Although I'm not sure how long before that would get old. And I do think he would like to be in the sunlight. i know he doesn't complain about it but I can't imagine that anyone wouldn't really want to be able to go outside in the daytime. It would just be so limiting. Not to mention really dangerous, if you interact with humans during the daytime and are thus not always in a very deep underground cave. Spike goes so near direct sunlight so often that I find it hard to believe he isn't dead. And in the HLoD he said he couldn't wait to see if he freckled and seemed incredibly excited about it, so I can't see that he wouldn't now.

Somehow I like the idea of Spike becoming human better than Angel. Maybe because he's not expecting it, and he's not viewing it as some kind of reward for redemption, and it just doesn't seem right to have an expectation of being redeemed and getting a reward for your apocolypse fighting efforts. And it would be a cool twist.

Also, I want to see Spike on tv for a long time yet, and the non-aging thing is really starting to strain my credibility on Angel, and I don't want to see that with Spike.

But I would miss him having superpowers. I guess I'm saying that I'm on the fence about it. Just please don't cancel the show altogether unless there's going to be a spin-off with Spike as a major part of it, is all I really ask.

oh, and I think human Spike should stop bleaching his hair. All that peroxide's gotta be too painful to keep up on a human scalp without ever giving it time to recover.

Edited By Julie A at 1/25/2003 1:52:00 AM.

[Dalton]

I think JM quitting smoking is one more reason why we won't see Spike smoke anymore. It happened to co-incide with him giving up his evil ways, so it worked out in a way.

Hmmm... what character based reason makes sense? Well, maybe having a soul makes him feel more guilty about second hand smoke.

Count me in among the people who want to see him grow out his hair. I really like the grown out roots look with the curls. And I was finally able to get one of my non regular Buffy watching friends to admit he was good looking when she saw him in Lessons. So I think the hair was throwing her off.

[Dalton]

HAIR: Yes on the curls and the roots. I hate the white, slicked back hair.

HUMANITY: Oh Piffle. I don’t want him to be human, though Julie sure has a good point about the non-aging thing. But I don’t buy for a minute that some Shansu (?) prophecy we’ve never heard about on BtVS is going to suddenly play a huge part in the destiny of one of the show’s regular characters. Not that it couldn’t happen, but there is no precedent for it, and it would steam me pretty good. What? Now I HAVE to watch Angel to understand the possibilities on BtVS? It’s one thing to interconnect them and give viewers of both shows something of an advantageous, or fuller angle, it’s another to make a pivotal plot development impossible to ascertain.

As far as what Spike wants – he expresses delight at the thought of being back in the sunlight after he grabs the Gem of Amara, and it seems to mean a lot to him to be "treated like a man. But he's never really made any direct noises about wanting to be human again.

I mostly get the overwhelming feeling Spike wants to die already – “Let Me Rest in Peace”, “Can we rest now, Buffy?”, “I can barely live with what I’ve done . . .”, etc. The human psyche really isn’t made to live in this challenging world for so very long. And William, a sensitive soul who never fully gave up his humanity, now has his soul restored. I get the feeling, underneath it all, expressed in that uncharacteristic somberness, is a just-under-the-surface desire for "that final gasp, that look of peace".

[Dalton]

Oh, how terribly morbid and touching. And how akin to my feelings regarding the "ending" of BtVS. After all, doesn't Spike refer to Buffy's death as her "ending". Since early on this season I have had a feeling of terrible forboding regarding the wrap up of the show. I heard once, a long time ago, an interview with Joss Whedon regarding Angel and Buffy's relationship. He said something along the lines that he doesn't believe in happy endings, and I am dreading a Romeo and Juliet ending to this one. It wouldn't necessarily involve the death of both parties, but I forsee some type of great sacrifice à la The Gift. Yes I know it has been done before, but I would forsee some type of twist. I would see either Spike siring Buffy to save her from certain death and imediately thereafter becoming human himself. Then they couldn't be together. Or, definitely some self-sacrifice, suicide, or giving up someone or something to save the world. And don't forget Joyce's (?) words to Dawn. When things are bad she won't chose you....

Those are my thoughts as they currently stand, and unfortunately I see no good in the future. Or more correctly, I see a bittersweet future in the Buffyverse.

Watergal ^..

[Dalton]

vlad: I have that episode analysis (it's really more of an analysis than a review) almost done - I'd say it will be ready tonight or tomorrow.

What email address do you prefer I send it to?

It is in MS Word 2000. It has some "inside the document" links, because it is kind of long, so I broke it up. A Spike-centric analysis of School Hard - well, there's a lot to say! I'd venture to guess some episode analyses will be much shorter.

Will that work? MS 2000? Make it easy on yourself and let me know what kind of format you prefer, what font, font size, etc. I am pretty good with my computer so I'd say "overestimate" rather than "underestimate" my abilities/understanding with any instructions you may have (I will let you know if I don't understand).

[Dalton]

Thank you so much for the Weetabix on the web site. I love it! Is there a way to play the Weetabix dialogue btwn Spike and Giles if you clicked on it or something?

I'm just full of ideas for things I don't know how to do.I wish I had my own Techopagan, altho I think I deserve more of a Technoelf. I picture him/her (herm?) as somone very like Dobby who will get me in all sorts of trouble while trying to help.

I vote for the longer two-tone look on Spike. I can't get used to the idea of JM as a total brunette poodle-head. He looked so good on Craig Whatshisface so I have to think that the long hours filming the eps have to be really exausting and lead to puffiness. He needs cool wet black tea bags on his eyes. The tannic acid takes away the puffiness. Old Irish remedy from me Grandmum.

The thread building here is really thought provoking. But i'm sitting here in my jammies trying to wake up and think straight, so i'm waiting until i get to work with a faster computer to comment. As JM would say: You guys seriously rock! I'm so happy we found each other.

Rusty Goode

[Dalton]

First, I'm rooting for Spike to become human. I'd miss vamp-Spike, but in the end, I think becoming human again would let him (and Buffy) be happier. I don't approve of a Buffy-Spike relationship for the same reason Buffy's mom didn't - he's not going to age, he can't give her a normal life, blah blah blah. I think the one thing Buffy deserves is a normal relationship (with someone that makes her toes curl up; not like Riley).

If Spike were human, they could have that.

(Also, I want Buffy to get to retire - get Willow on that de-Slayerizing thing.)

BUT - I'm not naive enough to expect to be given that happy an ending. Sigh.

[Dalton]

- the hair. I like the blond, but feel badly for JM having to bleach so constantly, so by all means go brunette.

[Dalton]

Julie A said, "Also, I want to see Spike on tv for a long time yet, and the non-aging thing is really starting to strain my credibility on Angel, and I don't want to see that with Spike.

But I would miss him having superpowers."

All very good points. And all perfectly possible in the Buffyverse. That's what so great about a fantasy program. I think Joss and company could come up with a plausible reason for anything they want to have happen (except maybe keeping James Marsters from aging although he's been doing a great job so far).

The Gem of Amara could have a twin, or another reason for Spike to be sunnyable could be invented. Easily. Spike could retain his superpowers as a restored human if the writers want. Those writers think outside the box all the time. So you can come up with whatever combination of traits you want for Spike and they can make it so.

If you could have *any* combination of traits (or others not yet seen) what would you design for Spike's character if there is a season 8? And don't forget the hair (grin).

Alexandra K.

[Dalton]

O.K. The caffine has taken hold. (Hommage to Hunter S, Thompson).

I have great trepidation about how things will end. I am afraid that altho whatever Joss has in mind will be great drama,I will be crushed by it. And then knowing how painful the end is, will never be able to go back and enjoy evrything that comes before. I don't want us to have been set up for catatonic Buffy to wake up and find it's all been a hallucination. That the amazing world of Sunnydale, the Hellmouth, the threat of constant apocalyptii, and most particularly Spike and Spuffy have all been a psychiatric disorder.

I also don't want Spike to "end". Nor do I want a wacky neighbor William bumbling about "adjusting". If Spike Shanshus (a word that always makes me want to go "doowop, doowop"), and becomes human he should at least have Slayer strength and healing ability.

I can see Buffy being retired as a Slayer. God knows she deserves that. But the two of them together, or either one alone, certainly aren't going to buy a 3/2 in the Valley and join the PTA.

I have two senarios which are by no means unique to my fevered brain.

1) Spike becomes the next Slayer's Watcher, either as a souled vampire, or a human who retains many of his powers.He has a long distance relationship with Buffy who drops by from time to time. She's retired her stake and is in England helping to put the Watcher's council back together.

2) Spike connects with Giles/Ripper back in the UK and drops by to help him from time to time with his paranormal investigations. It's a snarky sort of relationship, but on a more equal basis than season 4. A bond is obviously there, but neither will admit it's friendship. It's also not a partnership because Ripper will be darker, and Giles will be lonely and isolated. More than anyone else Spike would understand how that feels.

The dynamic could be very interesting considering how most men are only able to handle the pain of other men obliquely.Giles certainly wouldn't invite tears and cookies.

Also, since Spike wouldn't be in every ep, JM could do a movie!