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Post by Dalton on Jun 28, 2003 15:02:10 GMT -5
Rusty said: "I think in Dracula the victim had to be bitten three times to turn them. If that also works Harmony could have been bitten by three separate vamps at graduation which drained and turned her without drinking from any of them. (I don't think we've ever found out who her supposed sire was).
I think the difference between drinking and draining is just that. Drinking implies having a nice taste for hemato‑ebulgent purposes. Draining implies a savage feeding or loss of control."
I still can't wrap my mind around an apparent corpse resulting from the shared blood scenario. Seems to me that if the vamp‑to‑be had enough strength left to drink the vampire's blood after being drained to the point of death than he/she would be revived, not apparently die. Maybe I'm just too focused on the Anne Rice model which seems so logical to me but I can't help feeling that ME has just been sloppy and inconsistent with their own cannon when it comes to the appearance of new vamps. Maybe I'd feel better if in "Becoming I" we'd seen Angel fall down "dead" after drinking from Darla and then maybe a flash of his funeral‑ a black coach pulled by four black horses decked out in black plumes would have been nice‑followed by a cemetary, his tombstone and dramatic rise from the grave. But that's not what they showed us. We only saw the exchange of blood and to me anyway the implication was that after drinking of his sire's blood he got up and she led him away while his transformation from mortal to vampire was underway. Somewhere in the special features of the Season Two DVD Joss discusses the "shared‑blood" scenario and he makes no mention of apparently dying, being buried and subsequently rising being involved.
I never saw Season One. Can anyone tell me if the siring process is ever fully explained. I would think Giles would have expounded on this to Buffy & the Scoob's early on, probably in the library.
Also, I think the difference between drinking and draining is a matter of volume consumed. A vampire can drink from someone without killing them, if he/she doesn't take too much. Draining them encompasses drinking, obviously, but implies that the vampire the volume consumed has depleted the victim of the minimal volume of blood necessary to sustain life.
deborah cohen
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Post by Dalton on Jun 28, 2003 15:04:23 GMT -5
Robert, I agree with everything you said. Including your fear that the writers will not have enough time for the character development/relationship resolution that we see as necessary for closure before the end of the season or series. Too bad if that's the case. While I think it's completely natural for Dawn to desparately want to forgive Spike and return to their former closeness, I am disappointed not to have detected any sign of this in MH's performance. Believe me, I've tried to see it but haven't. As I said before, I don't know whether that's down to her or the writers but I just haven't seen it.
deborah cohen
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Post by Dalton on Jun 28, 2003 15:05:14 GMT -5
Lee said: "Deborah, I want you to know how envious I am of your coming trip to Chicago. Are you also attending any special functions, like a banquet or cocktail party?" I actually live in Chicago and the convention will be held about half an hour west of my home. So yes, I am quite thrilled, excited and happy that I don't have JM is coming to me, so to speak, isn't that just like him, so considerate. As for banquets or cocktail parties, there will be such functions with the celebrity guests I believe, but only for those attendies who purchase a ticket at the Gold Package level which, at $250 a pop is too expensive for me. I got the VIP ticket which includes the JM autograph session. They have a general admission too for $75 which doesn't include the autograph session. All levels include the Ghost of the Robot concert, with seating preferred according to the ticket level you hold. I believe our Miss Pamela is thinking of going and I'm hoping that it will work out for her. It would be great to meet others from this board at such a happy event. For anyone interested, here is the web‑page for it (not to be too presumptuous but maybe someone can double up to split a hotel room with Miss Pamela): www.flashbackweekend.com/ deborah cohen
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Post by Dalton on Jun 28, 2003 15:06:05 GMT -5
deborah: Like Alexandra, I envy you the upcoming event in Chicago. Have fun ‑ we will expect a full report, for vicarious living purposes.
MISS PAMELA: You have definitely lived up to your duties as Linguistics chair! Here I go, trying to use the new word in a sentence: "I'm sorry Officer, I was so busy marstercating, I didn't notice that Stop sign."
DAWN & SPIKE: She has been very cold, but I thought I detected a thaw, in this very last episode, in the way she defended Spike to Andrew. I think the writers will take time to show some Spike & Dawn reconciliation, but don' know if they'll do much with showing any explicit reconciliation scenes with any of the other Scoobies.
Spring Summers
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Post by Dalton on Jun 28, 2003 15:06:42 GMT -5
Deborah,
I get what you mean, but I'm going to have to watch that episode, I have never seen the episode where Angelus was sired. It's coming up in repeats though, Space has started airing BtVS from the beginning again. (After having aired last season's episodes three times in a row.)
Regarding burial, I'll take your word about Angel not being buried, but someone also mentioned to me that his sister new he was dead when he appeared to her as Angelus. Can someone clarify this episode for me? (Or, given the title, I'll go read the episode synopsis)
But we do know Spike was buried. When Buffy returned from the dead the second time, Dawn said that she didn't know how Buffy had injured her hands and Spike replied something along the lines of " I do, she dug her way out of her coffin. I've done it myself."
Do with that what you can, I'm off to do some oh‑so‑boring literature review for my thesis, and I WILL NOT turn on my internet connection until I see some real progress. (Okay, I'll probably break down after 3 or 4 hours, I am so weak willed...) :‑P
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Post by Dalton on Jun 28, 2003 15:08:33 GMT -5
I'd like a number (3) please, to go.
I bow to your definition of Marstercating.
Rusty Goode
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Post by Dalton on Jun 28, 2003 15:09:26 GMT -5
Some still prefer manual marstercation. This involves repeatedly moving oneself closer to the television. It involves a little more effort but on the plus side, it also burns more calories.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 28, 2003 15:10:04 GMT -5
Water Gal said, "I don't think that Sunnydale, even though located in California, has enough people with a low IQ to account for all the not‑so‑bright vampires."
Oh dear, tell me what you've heard about the populace of California having low IQ's. Is it communicable?
Alexandra K.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 28, 2003 15:10:40 GMT -5
I believe Claudia and Louis set Lestat on fire so they could get out from under his control. He was old enough that it didn't kill him as they intended, but it took him years to heal.
I loved *Interview with the Vampire*. It was as if Herman Hesse had written a vampire novel. Anne Rice has never been that good again, altho I also liked The Body Thief.
Rusty Goode
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Post by Dalton on Jun 28, 2003 15:11:27 GMT -5
Remember kind colleagues, that Spring's word is "Marsterscating", not "Marstercating". I haven't done any research on the latter term, but I have a feeling it could be used by anti‑Spikers as a slur, to make it seem like *we* don't know what we're talking about; that our minds are just simply in the gutter.
When you use the word "Marsterscating", don't forget that extra "s" at the end of James' last name (which of course the term was respectfully taken from). If you need a reminder, think of it the "s" factor; stage presence, sex appeal, snarkiness, smirks, smiles, smooth skin ‑ any such tasteful reminder will suffice. All for the cause of proper decourum such as is fitting the fine associates and patrons of the VHISN. ;‑)
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Post by Dalton on Jun 28, 2003 15:13:42 GMT -5
I think there must be a certain volume of blood that can be lost that allows a person to linger a bit, altho death will occur fairly soon without a transfusion. The amount the childe takes from the sire isn't enough to sustain a human life, only enough to affect the change. Death has to occur to have the change happen.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 28, 2003 15:14:24 GMT -5
Oops, sorry.
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Post by Dalton on Jun 28, 2003 17:34:02 GMT -5
"You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave." I'm feeling a fairly relevant song parody coming on. ;‑)
I think it was established pretty strongly in the "Dracual" ep that ol' Vlad is of a TOTALLY different breed than the other vamps we've seen in the JossVerse thus far, although I wonder if breaking his neck would kill him (as it did UberVamp who, like Drac, also couldn't be killed by staking).
As far as why there are so many "stupid" vamps running around the 'Dale, I agree with others ‑ stupid is as stupid does. Many of 'em probably weren't too old or bright to begin with.
As to why so many would be sired, my thoughts turned to the "young & sorta dumb" characteristic. Many of them may have been like Harmony ‑ young and wanting others around like themselves. Vamp boyfriends might have gone after their human girlfriends, and vice versa. If Cordelia had been vamped, don't you think she (or a minion) may have gone after her Cordettes so she could have her old gang with her in the undead life as she had in human life? In the alternate universe, who sired vampy Willow and Xander? Did one sire the other so they could be together in unlife forever? Possible.
Yes, I hope to attend the May BTVS/GotR Chicago event, or maybe even the April convention in Cleveland. Clem will be at the April con, too!
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Post by Dalton on Jun 28, 2003 17:34:51 GMT -5
I'd love to see that happen, but there seems to be a bit of Spikeophobia among TPTB, or at least a resistance to setting Spike apart from other cast members. And, they might well consider us a mutant sub‑phyllum of Buffy fans, just like we wonder if all those slacker alley‑vamps might be a sub‑species of vamp. There's also what might kindly be called our sense of humor, which is not everybody's cup of tea.
But, doesn't hurt to ask. How do we do that?
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Post by Dalton on Jun 28, 2003 17:35:28 GMT -5
Okay. Overwhelming evidence throughout the series seems to support the theory that siring involves apparent death and resurrection following the the *sharing of blood*. Julie's post #49 referencing a comment made by Angel on his show was especially convincing. But to me this makes for a very awkward scenario; vamp drinks to the point where death is inevitable, (without medical intervention), human drinks blood of vampire, human falls down dead. Human subsequently rises as new vampire. Sigh. It just doesn't flow for me.
My request for information referencing any episode that featured a character offering a comprehensive explanation on the siring process is still open.
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