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Post by Lola m on Jan 6, 2005 8:54:49 GMT -5
Good metaphoring, Spring. I woke up thinking about this one. And Kate asks Jack for help with her box and he agrees only if they open it together - and he keeps his promise to do that, even though she tries to hide her key. But when they open it, and he makes her admit part of her secret and she does - what does he do? Try to comfort her? No, he leaves her to her pain. Quite a contrast to Rose comforting Charlie on the beach. Interesting stuff. Now, I'm remembering that scene where Sawyer is up high on the tree roots trying to the case by throwing it on the ground. Then Kate way down below is able to take it back and run away with it. **nods really a lot** 'Cuz Jack is good with the distant noble stuff - keeping promises, work to save the patient, look at the group as a whole and make suggestions about survival, run through the jungle to find Claire. But not so much with the actually, you know, talking to people in a caring, personal, way. Unless forced. Because he actually didn't do that bad talking with Rose way back when, on the beach. But now I'm wondering how much of that was Jack and how much was Rose. Very appropriate for a surgeon with a not so warm family background. Lola |
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 6, 2005 8:55:46 GMT -5
I found the whole toy airplane thing extremely weird, creepy and confusing. Are we supposed to infer that the toy airplace represents the plane that crashed? So the man she loved and killed had this in a safe deposit box? I'm clueless on this. So is Kate really some sort of government agent - I got a definete something is going on vibe from her at the bank. (Or it could be all the Alias promos during the show  Uhm . . . we hear that the plane's fusilage is about to be going underwater, and soon after that the little toy plane is rescued from its underwater grave. It all seems related to that whole - we see a polar bar in the comics, and we see a real polar bear, thing. But how? And I agree with Lola - what in the WORLD could be so important about that little toy plane, that you hook up with bank robbers, and take part in vicitimizing and scaring the beejeezus out of dozens of people (and risking their lives), and then doing that shooting? Kate had to have been motivated by something more than getting her hands on that little toy as a memento. If that was her only motivation for participating in that nasty robbery, she's got a huge problem with moral bankruptcy. |
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Post by Lola m on Jan 6, 2005 8:56:33 GMT -5
I think J.J. has been reading the boards - we got to see all the characters everyone has been wondering about - Rose, Vincent, etc. But grrrrrrr - I wanted more resolution, development on the Claire/Rom plot. My impressions - I like the way they take the characters and move your sympathies around. Finally, Kate seems to be showing more layers and actually got to do something besides gaze pensively out to sea. Shannon is also given more layers and I have no clue what that look Boone was giving Shannon means. Looking at the previews it looked like Locke whacks Boone over the head next week, lending credence to the thought that he was the one who originally whacked Sayid. The bodies in the water was a good scary moment. And the airplane in the envelope combined with beyond the Sea combined with water rushing in to the beach (in a scary real-life allegory type way) all added to the creepy. Great, great title! Ooooh, neat thought. Almost like the song . . . called the waves/tide. Hmmmmmm. |
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Post by Lola m on Jan 6, 2005 8:58:53 GMT -5
He wants Sayid for himself. As do I (back off, Lola.) **smirks back at Spring** You start collecting several guys, you can't keep your eye on all of them all the time, you know. Sayid, Spike. You have to sleep sometime. And when you do? I'll slip in, have myself a real good day. **smirks again, for good measure** Lola  ;D |
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Post by Pixi on Jan 6, 2005 9:03:25 GMT -5
Uhm . . . we hear that the plane's fusilage is about to be going underwater, and soon after that the little toy plane is rescued from its underwater grave. It all seems related to that whole - we see a polar bar in the comics, and we see a real polar bear, thing. But how? Good point - I didn't make that connection. I wonder if Kate's lover/boyfriend somehow knew, like Claire's psychic about the crash? (and then of course he ran out and bought a little toy airplane and put it in a safe deposit box and then told Kate/Maggie/Annie and she killed him? Okaaaaayyyy) I loved the whole Sawyer dropping the case from the tree and then Kate running off with it scene. Anyone else wondering where Jin is? So Sun hasn't told Jack she can speak English obviously. |
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Post by Linda on Jan 6, 2005 9:29:32 GMT -5
Hi all! Wow. It was quiet here last night. I guess everyone was Aliasing. Neat comments so far, though. Thanks especially to Karen for "Beyond the Sea" lyrics. (And Erin: *snerk* Sack & Loone) Just a few post & run thoughts: Firstly: Kate and Sawyer are *fun.* They really do seem to have a connection. They can make each other smile and laugh. And they consistently watch each other's back(sides). Although Sawyer may be Season Six Spike-y: willing to help his lady, but wanting too much -- as well as being a work-in-progress kind of guy. (BTW: Agree with y'all that Sawyer should have taken off his pants for the sake of equity.) ;D Secondly: On the surface, it seems that since it was Jack who got to open Kate's locked case, it would be Jack who gets the girl. Except: Jack's methods for getting the key, the case and Kate's truth strikes me as having more in common with bang-against-a-rock coercion than Sawyer's let's-make-a-deal persuasion (lock-picking?) IMO, Sawyer always gives her a choice -- she didn't have to give up the case in the first place. After she did, the possession = 9/10ths thing kicked in for him. And Locke said the easiest way isn't always the best. (Hmmmm. Locke.) Also: the safe deposit box required two keys. Whazzat mean? Thirdly: When Sawyer was trying to open the case via rock, I flashed back to that old commercial with the gorilla bashing the suitcase to prove its durability. (Okay, I'm really, really, old. But I thought it was funny.  ) Fourthly: There sure were a lot of dead bodies involved with that case. First in the water and then the Marshall. Eetah with Patti: Ewwwww. Fifthly: Boone & Shannon -- does he really think that constantly putting her down will make her a better person? Or does he even want that? I seem to recall some sabotage-y incidents in previous episodes. Once, Shannon was crying over one of the bodies on the beach. IIRC, Boone made a very dismissive comment about the first sign we'd ever seen that Shannon was capable of thinking about someone other than herself. Also, he almost freaked her out again when Jack had almost talked her out of an asthma attack. Sixthly: Sayid & Shannon. Huh. Seventhly: Rose & Charley. These two were both resuscitated by a desperate Jack. Rose in the Pilot Ep and Charley in the last ep. Was there island magic involved in both instances -- e.g. the power of Jack's wish? Will they be alive if everyone gets rescued? Rose seemed to empathize with Charley a whole lot more than everyone else. Also: who did she think should be the one who could help Charley? Linda, and Hawaii still pretty (with apologies to snow s'cubies)  |
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Post by Pixi on Jan 6, 2005 9:35:51 GMT -5
Hi all! Wow. It was quiet here last night. I guess everyone was Aliasing. Neat comments so far, though. Thanks especially to Karen for "Beyond the Sea" lyrics. (And Erin: *snerk* Sack & Loone) Just a few post & run thoughts: Firstly: Kate and Sawyer are *fun.* They really do seem to have a connection. They can make each other smile and laugh. And they consistently watch each other's back(sides). Although Sawyer may be Season Six Spike-y: willing to help his lady, but wanting too much -- as well as being a work-in-progress kind of guy. (BTW: Agree with y'all that Sawyer should have taken off his pants for the sake of equity.) ;D Seventhly: Rose & Charley. These two were both resuscitated by a desperate Jack. Rose in the Pilot Ep and Charley in the last ep. Was there island magic involved in both instances -- e.g. the power of Jack's wish? Will they be alive if everyone gets rescued? Rose seemed to empathize with Charley a whole lot more than everyone else. Also: who did she think should be the one who could help Charley? Linda, and Hawaii still pretty (with apologies to snow s'cubies) I too get a Spike - work in progress vibe from sawyer. and really good point about Jack reviving both Rose and Charley. Interesting. |
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Post by Nickim on Jan 6, 2005 9:40:23 GMT -5
You're right - I was jumping to conclusions there and thinking she always lies about her name! (And nice analogy with the layers and the case.  ) I am also really wondering about her explanation of the little plane. The man I loved/the man I killed. This is meant to be read as both true - she loved someone and somehow killed them. But is this true? And is it just part of the truth? Because convincing a bunch of guys to rob a bank, pretend to be all smoochy with one (I presume she was pretending?!), shooting folks up - just to get your hands on a little toy plane that belonged to the man you loved/killed? That's not just being sentimental - that's, well, that's looney! So the little plane has to be more than just that. Plus, on a show where there is no such thing as "just a prop", a toy plane in the wreckage of a crashed real plane is just creepy and potentially very very creepy in its implications.  Lola I'd say the plane belonged to Kate's father, and that she "killed" him in the sense of disappointing him some way--just like Jack and his dad. |
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Post by Sara on Jan 6, 2005 9:46:10 GMT -5
No one's mentioned it yet, so just in case: the movie Shannon was referring to that features "Beyond the Sea" over the end credits is Finding Nemo. Why an ABC show of all shows was unable to just use the damn title baffles me, since ABC is a Disney subsidiary--unless Disney really is that pissed off at Pixar.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Jan 6, 2005 9:51:26 GMT -5
My quicky thoughts before I read the entire thread:
This episode was in the grand tradition of Joss Whedon arc pacing - you have a big dramatic buildup, then a lighter episode, a breather, before the next ax falls.
Great Kate/Sawyer chemistry! I think she actually smiled at him - much sparkage.
A nice piece of symmetry with Rose and Charlie - Jack brought Rose out of her depression, now she's doing the same for Charlie.
I thought what Rose said was interesting (not sure I remember it exactly) - something about a thin line between faith and denial, and she's on the better side. I'm guessing that's significant, given that the island responds to their thoughts. It's also interesting that Rose has faith that she'll see her husband again, and Jack is denying all possibility of rescue (I wonder why he's so convinced?).
Question (two parts): What is the song Island!Shannon is singing in French, and is it the same one that Crazy French Lady's music box plays? Someone with tapes of the previous episodes, please check.
Afterthought - All of a sudden, the ocean is rising and driving them further away from the beach. Is this because Jack is so set on moving inland, and he's influencing the environment? Is the island forcing them further up and further in? Whatever is going on, it's suspicious.
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Post by Karen on Jan 6, 2005 11:25:26 GMT -5
I'd say the plane belonged to Kate's father, and that she "killed" him in the sense of disappointing him some way--just like Jack and his dad. Hi Nicki! I love your theory. And it makes a lot of sense, too. A man she loved could very well be her dad. After thinking about it, I doubt if the plane was in the safety deposit box originally, but put there later. Her personal effects - the only thing she had on her when she was captured. |
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Post by Rachael on Jan 6, 2005 11:26:02 GMT -5
I found the whole toy airplane thing extremely weird, creepy and confusing. Are we supposed to infer that the toy airplace represents the plane that crashed? So the man she loved and killed had this in a safe deposit box? I'm clueless on this. So is Kate really some sort of government agent - I got a definete something is going on vibe from her at the bank. (Or it could be all the Alias promos during the show I'd have to say her handiness with guns bespeaks some sort of training. |
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Post by Karen on Jan 6, 2005 11:27:17 GMT -5
No one's mentioned it yet, so just in case: the movie Shannon was referring to that features "Beyond the Sea" over the end credits is Finding Nemo. Why an ABC show of all shows was unable to just use the damn title baffles me, since ABC is a Disney subsidiary--unless Disney really is that pissed off at Pixar. Maybe Shannon didn't know the English name for it. Altho, why she wouldn't is beyond me. I haven't seen "Finding Nemo". I heard it was good, tho. |
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Post by Rachael on Jan 6, 2005 11:29:19 GMT -5
Thirdly: When Sawyer was trying to open the case via rock, I flashed back to that old commercial with the gorilla bashing the suitcase to prove its durability. (Okay, I'm really, really, old. But I thought it was funny. ) I had the exact same thought. (About the commercial, not about you being really, really old. ) |
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 6, 2005 11:32:07 GMT -5
**smirks back at Spring** You start collecting several guys, you can't keep your eye on all of them all the time, you know. Sayid, Spike. You have to sleep sometime. And when you do? I'll slip in, have myself a real good day. **smirks again, for good measure** Lola ;D A real good day, with Spike and Sayid? It wouldn't be you, Lola. It would never be YOU. You're beneath them. No, wait. No getting beneath them! Shoot. |
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