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Post by Dalton on Jul 13, 2003 14:55:56 GMT -5
Well - sure Riley gave her the best sex "to date" when he had sex with Buffy - all he had to beat out was the "first time" with Angel and that one time with Parker. He seemed well capable of that task.
I do think the Riley-sex was a learning experience for Buffy and helpful in setting Buffy up for full-force superheated affair with Spike.
Alexandra - On "where the wild things are" I got the impression that mystical forces were fueling the passion for Riley & Buffy - and vice-versa. The more they went at it the more they were under "its" spell, the more they were under its spell, the more they went at it. It definitely wasn't portrayed as a natural level of desire.
I did not dislike Riley; he was OK, there were things I liked (caring, attentive, goodhearted) and disliked (kind of patronizing) about him, and now he is gone and I only think about him when it is relevant to something current.
deborah - Joss may not have made final decisions about getting Buffy & Spike together until Season 4, but he was setting it up way before that - at least that is how it seems to me. Spike & Buffy had an instant, strong, emotional connection, complexly and deliberately set up in the writing. It doesn't seem to me though that either Spike or Angel has been set up as a "long haul guy" but rather guys she had to learn different, but equally important lessons from. It seems set up for Buffy to realize she loves/has loved Spike every bit as much as she ever loved Angel . . . but like Angel, Spike seems to represent a certain part of her nature she is meant to embrace.
Spring Summers
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Post by Dalton on Jul 13, 2003 14:57:05 GMT -5
Hey Rusty,
I'll submit an entry to this poetry contest, but I'll admit I didn't know we were having one! And I'll take that GOTR CD if I win, please!!
Miss Pamela
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Post by Dalton on Jul 13, 2003 14:58:15 GMT -5
Hey, I said I liked Riley. I also said I liked Spike better, and I do. T
he comparison between the two is something like the comparison between an old pair of sneakers and a pair of hot, red, Spiked (pun intended) heels. The sneakers are sensible, comfy footwear but are inappropriate for certain occasions. Hey, but who doesn't appreciate the heels, even if they're not good for your feet?
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Post by Dalton on Jul 13, 2003 15:00:57 GMT -5
deborah said: "Oops. Shame on me. Sorry about the extra "L" in Novel."
Oh, okay - at first I thought you were asking about PC networking software used by the Scooby Gang. ;-)
I have "Pretty Maids All in a Row" and it's not bad once it picks up about mid-way through. But admittedly, while I've enjoyed "The Watchers' Guides", I'm not too crazy about Christopher Golden's fiction writing style. I've always said I'm the worst when it comes to brevity myself, but it seems THIS guy loads down his stories with way too much detail about things that ultimately have no bearing on the story.
And it's a shame, too, because Golden dedicated "Pretty Maids" to James Marsters (says so in the front of the book), and it's of course all about Spike & Dru in their bad ol' days. So you'd think just with Spike as a main character that'd be good enough... well, it wasn't for me. I won't recommend that you DON'T read it; just be on the lookout for sections that seem to go on endlessly in details, particularly in the first half or so of the story. It's about Spike & Dru eliminating SIT's in the early 1940's - for their own self-centered reasons, of course, not just to please some higher "Big Bad" - so you might feel a sense of familiarity to the S7 storyline. There are no other familiar JossVerse characters in the story, however - but there are references to some of today's characters' ancestors.
I'm currently reading "The Gatekeeper's Trilogy" that he wrote with another author, and its pacing seems to be much better.
Miss Pamela
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Post by Dalton on Jul 13, 2003 15:01:57 GMT -5
Okay; yeah, you'd THINK that undivided loyalty would be enough to keep one's interest, but it hasn't yet registered with Buffy in regards to Xander OR, at least up through S6,... to Spike.
But my question to you is, having said what you did about the Riley/Xander/Buffy dynamics plus with you being sort of a Xander Champion, what did you think about Xander's speech to Buffy in the warehouse (or wherever) that ultimately inspires her to go chasing after Riley in "Into the Woods"? *I* honestly didn't think it made too much sense, and I don't say that with any disrespect to the XanMan. I'd appreciate your take on it.
Miss Pamela
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Post by Dalton on Jul 13, 2003 15:04:07 GMT -5
Diane said: "The comparison between the two is something like the comparison between an old pair of sneakers and a pair of hot, red, Spiked (pun intended) heels. The sneakers are sensible, comfy footwear but are inappropriate for certain occasions. Hey, but who doesn't appreciate the heels, even if they're not good for your feet?"
You may not know this, but I'm even lower on the food chain than just being a Spikeaholic and BtVS fan: I'm a pro wrestling fan *HORRORS!* and manage an official pro wrestling website.
And that's why I'm telling you that you may not know THIS either, but actually, your analogy is right-on with the trend over the last several years for fans to actually like the "bad guys" better - and in pro wrestling, the "bad guys" are called "heels". Often times, it's the "heels" that are the better, more exeperienced wrestlers and performers; frequently in a match they have to work harder to make the "good guy" or "babyface" look good.
The most famous example of this phenomenon is "Stone Cold" Steve Austin; he was never "fancy" but he was damn uncomfortable to be around and at first the fans didn't like him. But when he got in a feud with someone truly "evil" - Vince McMahon, the WWF owner - then he started being cheered and loved by the fans and became an ultimate "anti-hero", a "babyface" who's still a bad boy at heart and is facing guys "worse" than he is. Now the original "stilleto heel" of pro wrestling's television era was "Gorgeous George" back in the 1950's Foppish, arrogant, sissy-looking, the fans HATED him - but he was a tough wrestler and the fans ENJOYED hating him because the respected his abilities.
Actually, pro wrestling has a lot in common with "respectable" entertainment; the character development, the struggle of good vs. evil, etc. And often even in today's high-tech movies, after all the fancy gadgetry's been blown to hell, what does it come down to but a - what - a fight/brawl/match between the chief protagonist and antagonist (Star Trek III, Mission Impossible, for instance).
And like our favorite baddie Spike, often the guy the management WANTS you to ultimately like the best has to start out "bad" and then turn "good"; the better to endear him to you with. My favorite wrestler of all time began his most famous part of his career as "The Undertaker" that way - first a monster "heel" that the fans ultimately just couldn't help but cheer, into a bad-ass "babyface". Ironically, Undertaker's most common nickname (because of how he was originally portrayed) was "Dead Man". What is it with me and dead guys? ;-)
Miss Pamela
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Post by Dalton on Jul 13, 2003 15:05:23 GMT -5
Oh Miss Pamela how you date me. My grandmother adored wrestling and she LOVED Georgeous George (for the same reason she loved Liberace, he was "good to his mother.") While I'm not a fan of pro wrestling, I do appreciate the kind of physical ability it takes. You might be interested to know that a WWF scout was eyeing my daughter in the late 80's as a possible candidate. She could take out guys twice her size (sort of like a little blonde we both know) and loved the challenge. She decided against it ultimately, but it was for other reasons. Yes, I understand the philosophy (philosophy and wrestling? Odd pair. Odder that that belong together) and drama you are describing. I had the extreme luck of meeting Frank Langella in 1978 while I was researching vampires and he was starring on Broadway as Dracula. Do you know what he said? It was fun playing the bad guy because the bad guy could do what ever he wanted, no matter how selfish while the good guys were just men in gray suits. I think that's why Riley doesn't cut it with most BTVS fans. He's another guy in a gray suit or in Riley's case, fatigues. What's your website?
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Post by Dalton on Jul 13, 2003 15:07:42 GMT -5
Lee P. So glad to hear from you again! I was just mentioning how we hadn't heard from you in a while. Your message floored me I laughed so hard. Do you take French lessons with Buffy?
I'm sorry I found your post so funny. I thought I would share my mirth and give you a good line to use the next time you catch JM in a darkened hallway (alley, bar, bedroom...).
May I translate?
"Voulez vous la couche avec moi?" You say?
Translation: "Would you the diaper with me?"
Somehow I don't think that was what you were trying to say! (You were SO close! If only couche didn't have a double meaning you would have been fine!) (Though maybe you were trying to say that and who am I to get all judge-ey *smirk*)
If you would like to invite our Jamesey-boy to get all hot and heavy, why not try dropping two letters and adding one more.
"Voulez-vous coucher avec moi?" would be your line, or maybe if you are really lucky it could be his line!
I am so glad to hear from you though, it has been a long time. (Part 5 I believe.) And I would like to repeat, I am only replying because I found your post so amusing. So if you think I am being judge-ey, tell me off and I will go slink off into a corner and do some pennance. *chuckle*
Post more often will ya! We had so much fun together in Part 5.
Watergal who is trying to share her mirth withought looking judgey and who may or may not be succeeding (I so hope I succeeded.)
Watergal
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Post by Dalton on Jul 13, 2003 15:09:06 GMT -5
Diane - wow. You nearly knocked me out of my chair with that flash-from-the-past. My Mom loved and still loves professional wrestling (current fave: The Rock). I can't ever remember seeing Gorgeous George wrestling, but I remember my mom and aunt talking about him, and about Liberace. My aunt had loved them both, my mom had disliked them both. I would never have even remembered that name if you hadn't brought it up. My memories are very vague.
I do remember my mom used to call the two of them . . . well, it was an Italian word without a perfect translation available in English . . it meant "vain" with a touch of "sissified" added, which aggravated my aunt (no doubt half the fun for mom).
Gosh, I just realized I do the same thing to my older sister about her interest in David B/Angel. Hmmm. . . maybe "pathetic poof" makes a good translation . . . (actually my sis and I have lots of fun ragging each other).
Isn't genetics fascinating?
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Post by Dalton on Jul 13, 2003 15:10:23 GMT -5
Submit the gropegropezippop and I'll vote for you, twice.(Can I come live at your house when you get me fired?)
The contest has to be approved and offcially announced. Maybe it should be a separate posting on MIsc so entries don't get lost on this thread?
Rusty Goode
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Post by Dalton on Jul 13, 2003 15:11:23 GMT -5
Yes, I think poof probably comes close. I had to rent a car a few years ago. We'd had a flood and all the good ones were gone. The only car left was a color my dear Ian called "Poofter Pink." So your translation choice is probably sound. You could also use "ponce."
The Brits do have us beat in the realm of choice phrases. I think that if I ever go back to Blighty with him I'm going to embarass the daylights out of everyone with the delightful selection of words and phrases I've picked up.
Bugger Bloody Hell Bollocks Poofter Ponce
Oh yeah.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 13, 2003 15:12:13 GMT -5
Oh yes, and Spike's favorite, "Nancy boy."
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Post by Dalton on Jul 13, 2003 15:13:24 GMT -5
I find most of the "Official" novels take some effort to get thru. I bought one trilogy bcause Spike was on the cover and after the first half of the first book I started skimming for the word 'Spike'. Blah, blah,blah SPIKE! Blah, blah, blah SPIKE! Sorta like the last few episodes.
Someone should gather all the really great fan fics by character and get the author's (and I guess ME's) permission to publish them. Or, just gather, bind and sell on ebay. With, to be fair, a cut to the authors (and me, for the idea).
Rusty Goode
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Post by Dalton on Jul 13, 2003 15:14:12 GMT -5
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Post by Dalton on Jul 13, 2003 15:15:09 GMT -5
Diane, I am so very envious of you having a Brit of your very own.
Many years ago I worked as a Customer Service Phone Rep for a credit card dispute processing dept. The job ranked somewhere in the 5th circle of Hell, with the phone calls from frustrated, irate cardholders constantly backed up. This kind of work couldn't be less suited to me as I tend to be thin skinned, stressed under pressure and emotionally transparent. So when I'd absolutely had it and my stress level had reached dangerously high limits the frustration and hostility tended to seep out into my voice. Sometimes I might answer the phone in deadly quiet, subdued, and flat voice that barely concealed the rage and frustration beneath. Well, those times when I answered the phone in such a black mood and heard a pleasant, male, English accented voice at the other end of the line my mood instantaneously changed from foul to fair. You want me to reverse those finance and late charges, No Problem! And did the credit bureau report say something mean about you? Let me just clear that up for you now. And is there anything else I can help you with today? simper sigh simper sigh.
I actually did end up with a English boyfriend for a few years but it was a very unhealthy relationship that would probably never have even started let alone lasted as long as it did had it not been for that spellbinding accent.
He was a cockney btw. Not at all like Giles or even Spike (who contrary to the opinion expressed in a number of articles I've read does not speak in a cockney accent.
Deborah Cohen
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