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Post by Rachael on May 25, 2006 9:19:57 GMT -5
Well. The button maybe does something after all. It's a nifty explanation for the island causing all those wrecks. But there's still something weird going on. Multiple somethings, not explained by freaky EM experiments.
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Post by Matthew on May 25, 2006 9:20:03 GMT -5
Words cannot express how bummed I was at not being able to watch this with everyone last night. Especially because I had actual interesting information to contribute: Penelope? Was also the name of Odysseus's wife. You know, the one who waited for him (in her case for twenty years) as he made his way home across the seas, remaining faithful to him despite enormous pressure to remarry (in fact, she showed herself almost as smart and resourceful as her famous husband by insisting that she could not marry anyone until she'd finished weaving a burial shroud for her father-in-law; she'd work on the shroud by day, only to unravel all her work each evening). Not at all meaningful in terms of last night's story, huh? With DESmond and oDESSyus and all that, and the years-long journey to get home... Desmond's habit of calling everyone "Brother" seems to reinforce how connected they all are.....
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Post by Matthew on May 25, 2006 9:23:45 GMT -5
Wet shirtless Sayid. That's what this show needs more of. ;D Sara, good catch on the Penelope/Odysseus connection. I was thinking - Desmond can't be dead, he hasn't read his last Dickens yet. Also, Penelope and her Russians (Matthew, was that Russian?) are apparently outside the influence of the island, so there is still an outside world. I'm guessing she hired them to look for big electro-magnetic pulses? Also, I haven't been paying attention, but could her dad be a Hanso executive? Anyone notice these things? Jorge Garcia-Hurley rocks. He does so much with such subtle actions - you could see in his eyes that he knew what Michael had done, before he spoke. Michael - was anyone else waiting for the boat to blow up? My guess? The Others are going to let him motor around in circles for a while, then take Walt back, hopefully possibly killing Michael in the process. That's a big foot. I can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock foot this big. As to the plane - Desmond may have caused the magnetic field that drew the plane to the island, but he didn't collect that group of people and put the plane in range if the field. Also, Kelvin (?) had been goading Des about not pushing the button. I think Des was set up by the people running the various experiments, who wanted that group to end up on the island. Or it could just all be coincidence. I dunno. Loved the useless pile of message tubes - some part of the system has been broken down for a while. Experiments within experiments, lab rats observing other rats... Penny was paying Portuguese persons... 1) It was like Spanish, only more liquidy, and did not sound like Italian: "m" in place of "n" and "r" in place of "l" 2) I cheated: I had the captioning on, and it said "(speaking Portuguese)" before they started talking.
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Post by Rachael on May 25, 2006 9:25:44 GMT -5
He didn't take the money and Libby met up with Desmond. And it wasn't just a drive-by meet thing, she gave him the boat. Holy moley! Asking Jin to sail the boat - good idea! Huh. Jin and Sun? So what other plans does Sayid have? Does he need Sun's skills with plants? Is she going for her own reasons? A big bird. That maybe said Hurley's name. That's just . . . well, it's just odd. Was that only in there so that Michael would learn he doesn't have bullets - that Jack suspects him? Or does the big bird mean something? Yea - what's up with the bird? Color me confused. Just another manifestation of the Great Schizophrenia Spirit. What I was wondering was - which of them conjured it? Kate brings the horse, Walt the polar bear, etc. Whose was the bird?
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 25, 2006 9:32:08 GMT -5
Wet shirtless Sayid. That's what this show needs more of. ;D Sara, good catch on the Penelope/Odysseus connection. I was thinking - Desmond can't be dead, he hasn't read his last Dickens yet. Also, Penelope and her Russians (Matthew, was that Russian?) are apparently outside the influence of the island, so there is still an outside world. I'm guessing she hired them to look for big electro-magnetic pulses? Also, I haven't been paying attention, but could her dad be a Hanso executive? Anyone notice these things? Jorge Garcia-Hurley rocks. He does so much with such subtle actions - you could see in his eyes that he knew what Michael had done, before he spoke. Michael - was anyone else waiting for the boat to blow up? My guess? The Others are going to let him motor around in circles for a while, then take Walt back, hopefully possibly killing Michael in the process. That's a big foot. I can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock foot this big. As to the plane - Desmond may have caused the magnetic field that drew the plane to the island, but he didn't collect that group of people and put the plane in range if the field. Also, Kelvin (?) had been goading Des about not pushing the button. I think Des was set up by the people running the various experiments, who wanted that group to end up on the island. Or it could just all be coincidence. I dunno. Loved the useless pile of message tubes - some part of the system has been broken down for a while. Experiments within experiments, lab rats observing other rats... Penny was paying Portuguese persons... 1) It was like Spanish, only more liquidy, and did not sound like Italian: "m" in place of "n" and "r" in place of "l" 2) I cheated: I had the captioning on, and it said "(speaking Portuguese)" before they started talking. Portuguese persons in the snowy trackless wilderness? Huh. More unnecessary weirdness. It's all too weary-making.
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Post by Sara on May 25, 2006 9:32:14 GMT -5
Yea - what's up with the bird? Color me confused. Just another manifestation of the Great Schizophrenia Spirit. What I was wondering was - which of them conjured it? Kate brings the horse, Walt the polar bear, etc. Whose was the bird? If it did indeed say Hurley's name (something I'm gonna listen very carefully for when I rewatch the episode with Greg), then maybe it was his. Or perhaps Libby created it.
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Post by Matthew on May 25, 2006 9:34:55 GMT -5
Penny was paying Portuguese persons... 1) It was like Spanish, only more liquidy, and did not sound like Italian: "m" in place of "n" and "r" in place of "l" 2) I cheated: I had the captioning on, and it said "(speaking Portuguese)" before they started talking. Portuguese persons in the snowy trackless wilderness? Huh. More unnecessary weirdness. It's all too weary-making. Hey, join me in the "completely lost it, just along for the ride" corner, where I've joined Sayid since we saw the last remnant of the four-toed statue.
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Post by Matthew on May 25, 2006 9:36:58 GMT -5
Just another manifestation of the Great Schizophrenia Spirit. What I was wondering was - which of them conjured it? Kate brings the horse, Walt the polar bear, etc. Whose was the bird? If it did indeed say Hurley's name (something I'm gonna listen very carefully for when I rewatch the episode with Greg), then maybe it was his. Or perhaps Libby created it. Again, caption whore to help out: "(Bird crying out "Hurley! Hurley!")" Could be Libby, could be Hurley, could be the island....we have the horse, the jiminy cricketfrog, the boar, the dead dad, the... *list gets too long*
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 25, 2006 9:40:19 GMT -5
Yea - what's up with the bird? Color me confused. Just another manifestation of the Great Schizophrenia Spirit. What I was wondering was - which of them conjured it? Kate brings the horse, Walt the polar bear, etc. Whose was the bird? Hurley's. The island was giving him the bird. Or maybe it was a symbolic messenger bird - the Others only wanting Hurley as a messenger so he could go back and deliver a warning to the rest of the group. Although, that doesn't make sense - why would the Others specify Hurley on the list, if they didn't think he was important? I think if the Others think Hurley is just going to tamely go back and tell everyone there's no point in rescuing his friends, they've got another think coming. Besides, Sayid and company are still out there waiting by the signal fire.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 25, 2006 9:46:10 GMT -5
Portuguese persons in the snowy trackless wilderness? Huh. More unnecessary weirdness. It's all too weary-making. Hey, join me in the "completely lost it, just along for the ride" corner, where I've joined Sayid since we saw the last remnant of the four-toed statue. My brain hurts.
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Post by Rachael on May 25, 2006 9:54:25 GMT -5
Sorry if I'm repeato-girl - I haven't gone back to read the comments, but:
The island seems to be a target for all sorts of experiments. It has a weird EM energy thing going on, which attracted researchers and then went horribly wrong. Check.
Then there's the psychological experiments. On the watchers and the button-pushers.
Sure, the button really does something world-savey. Fine. But no scientist worth her PhD would have set up THAT system to protect the world from the island. If you needed an EM discharge every 108 minutes, then you'd program a computer to do it automatically every 98 minutes, and then an alarm to go off if it didn't happen. The alarm would alert one of the actual humans you had staffing the station (and you'd have more than two), and they'd manually do the button-pushing and then fix the computer.
The every-108 minutes enter the code is still either an experiment or something very bizarre about the island or both.
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Post by Sara on May 25, 2006 10:12:52 GMT -5
Ok, so Eko must've seen the same info as Desmond on those printouts. At least now we know WHY he suddenly became button-pushing man. Any particular reason why Father Mumstheword wouldn't want to make such a salient point to Locke? He had...what, three or four opportunities to share? Perhaps that might've, you know...made things a tad simpler. From a storytelling perspective, I suppose it worked; Eko's sudden attitude adjustment was a head-scratcher...and it allowed for some season-finale effects. Sort of assassinated Eko's character in the process, though. I'm not sure Eko knew knew; I don't get the sense he had time to actually go through the printouts and put all the facts together. I think Eko believed it was crucial to press the button because of his dreams. See, as I see it the biggest difference between Locke and Eko was their approach to faith. All along, Locke has only been able to maintain his belief when he's had proof to bolster it: his newfound ability to walk, his dream of Boone and the plane, the light from the hatch, etc. The longer he went without an overt "sign" he was on the right path, the more dissatisfied Locke became. And when the evidence suggested his faith was misplaced, he lost it altogether. But to me, faith is about believing when there isn't any "logical" reason to do so. It's easy to believe in something when you've got things you can point to and say "see, that's proof that I'm right" or reassure you you're on the right track. Continuing to believe when those buttresses are taken away-- that, to me, is faith. And that's the kind of belief Eko has displayed, time and time again. The deal with the button was no different. Which makes it interesting to me that it was ultimately Eko's version of faith which ended up steering him down the right path, while Locke's led him toward pain and destruction. Hmm...
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Post by fish1941 on May 25, 2006 10:16:51 GMT -5
I have two questions:
1) Since when did Kate suddenly become Ana-Lucia's doppelganger?
2) What was the point of the Others kidnapping Walt at the end of S1, when all they did was return him to Michael at the end of S2?
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Post by Sue on May 25, 2006 10:21:32 GMT -5
Wow--I have another bit of knowledge not yet contributed? Awesome. Last night there was another name besides Penelope that made my ears prick up. Like John and Danielle before him, Desmond shares a last name with a famous philosopher: David Hume. He's even a fellow Scotsman to boot. From that same page, a brief summary of what Hume's philosophy was all about: Part of his fame and importance owes to his boldly skeptical approach to a range of philosophical subjects. He questioned common notions of personal identity, and argued that there is no permanent "self" that continues over time. He dismissed standard accounts of causality and argued that our conceptions of cause/effect relations are grounded in habits of thinking, rather than in the perception of causal forces in the external world itself. He argued that it is unreasonable to believe testimonies of alleged miraculous events, and, accordingly, hints that we should reject religions that are founded on miracle testimonies. Against the common belief of the time that God's existence could be proven through a design or causal argument, Hume offered compelling criticisms of standard theistic proofs. Also, against the common view that God plays an important role in the creation and reinforcement of moral values, Hume offered one of the first purely secular moral theories, which grounded morality in the pleasing and useful consequences that result from our actions.And the guy he replaced. Was his name Kelvin or Calvin---as in predestination Calvin.
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Post by Sara on May 25, 2006 10:21:35 GMT -5
Sorry if I'm repeato-girl - I haven't gone back to read the comments, but: The island seems to be a target for all sorts of experiments. It has a weird EM energy thing going on, which attracted researchers and then went horribly wrong. Check. Then there's the psychological experiments. On the watchers and the button-pushers. Sure, the button really does something world-savey. Fine. But no scientist worth her PhD would have set up THAT system to protect the world from the island. If you needed an EM discharge every 108 minutes, then you'd program a computer to do it automatically every 98 minutes, and then an alarm to go off if it didn't happen. The alarm would alert one of the actual humans you had staffing the station (and you'd have more than two), and they'd manually do the button-pushing and then fix the computer. The every-108 minutes enter the code is still either an experiment or something very bizarre about the island or both. My initial guess? That... Wait. As I started to write it down I ended up shooting a bunch of holes in my own theory. I was going to say that I figured the initial EM experiment went haywire, forcing them to improvise. But even if that were the case, why would they have to input 6 random numbers--why not just one word or number? So, like I said, holes in the theory. I'll have to think on it some more...
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