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Post by Karen on May 3, 2005 21:45:26 GMT -5
Oh yeah. The birthday party scene: Loved the way Logan stood up for Veronica. (Although I really didn't get why the two of them didn't just turn around and walk out.) Don't get why Duncan over-reacted. He's been with Megan for a while now. I guess the big emotional scene that after with Veronica stirred him up AND he realizes she went just about straight from accusing him of rape to smooching with Logan---pretty blindsided there. AND they did make a big deal about how he hasn't taken his meds in a while. As for Madison: the little witch---now that Veronica's with Logan she suddenly treats her as part of the in crowd again? (Well, except for the spitting of course.) How incredibly sad that Veronica was drugged totally by accident. [Need to remind my daughters to never take a drink from anyone else. Anyone!] I'm jumping all over the thread. Sorry. I also think that Duncan being off his meds contributed to his uncontrollable rage tonight. I need to rewatch tonight so I can send the tape off to Becky tomorrow.
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Post by Lola m on May 3, 2005 21:47:19 GMT -5
i just caught up on posts. whoa indeed! yeah, i think it was the pool house. i agree, on both counts. -------------- so. did the odds of duncan & veronica REALLY being siblings just plummet with the celeste comments, or what? also, why would abel have a standing call date with a prostitute? and is this part even important - or just the fact that he had one? and i take it this is the "entertainment lawyer" keith has been trying to find for "a year" - so why did he lie to veronica about who he was looking for? i also loved the nod to casablanca, particularly in an episode featuring the casablancas. that RT, too clever for his own good . Yes, I feel the that just by dint of Celeste saying it, the odds of Veronica and Duncan really being siblings is close to nil, IMHO. Good question, about what the "standing appointment" might mean. Is this important, or just a way to confirm that he can't be the killer? RT much too clever.
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Post by Lola m on May 3, 2005 21:49:17 GMT -5
well, logan said something like 'so is this party three months early or nine months late?' (or the reverse). so, his dad apparently threw him one just for the heck of it. i would guess (and might be wrong) it was out of guilt over not even remembering what his son's birthdate is. aaron sure is all over the map with emotions with logan - he seems to have very little self-control where logan is concerned, the kind of abusive parent that takes out whatever emotion he's feeling, be it anger or affection or whatever. personally i find him even creepier than usual when he's attempting to be nice. I missed that line of Logan's - so thanks for posting that! I definitely find daddy E even creepier when "nice". It's such a . . . manic nice. You express it perfectly - he has no control over his emotion when it comes to Logan.
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Post by artemis on May 3, 2005 21:51:54 GMT -5
Yes. That was quite disgusting, and I've never heard of that expression before. Gah. I don't think that's where the GHB came from. She (Dick's girlfriend) didn't seem to be impaired. Did we see who actually gave Veronica the drug? I was being interrupted right and left tonight. i thought dick said something about how he'd been going to give his girlfriend a dose, but she didn't take it. so my understanding is that dick's girlfriend (madison, right?) saw veronica walking by and wanted to give her a spit-in drink, so she spit in the drink dick had given her (before ever drinking from it herself) and stuck it in veronica's face so veronica would take it, not even realizing that it had been drugged by dick as well (since dick had been planning to do it non-consensually to his girlfriend). is this what you guys remember?
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Post by Lola m on May 3, 2005 21:54:06 GMT -5
At the risk of falling 4 more pages behind....I read up to page 4 and am going to just list a few thoughts: 1. Really, really liked pulling in all the characters from previous SOTWs. 2. The hour seemed long (in a good way) because so much was presented. 3. Liked (and horribly frustrated) by the slow drawing out of the story the night of the party. Found it interesting that, although she had never mentioned that night previously to anyone now she is questioning kids right and left, middle of the parking lot, school hallway, etc. 4. Me----I'm personally satisfied with that resolution to the "rape" subplot. I assume there will be folks, if not here then elsewhere, who feel it was somehow "cheating" to make it Duncan, and sort of unconciously consensual (in that (a) even had she been aware Veronica might well have consented to have sex with Duncan at that point and (b) he was certainly unaware that she was unaware.) Poor, poor Veronica---silently suffering for the past year and a half, thinking she had been raped, but really sort of not-----which I think explains her being able to put it behind her pretty rapidly. 5. Great scene with Duncan----him thinking all this time that she was aware of what had gone on and suffering his own torments over sleeping with his sister. (SO: Yes, someone (undoubtedly Celeste) did tell him Veronica was his sisters----not even a "maybe"). Teddy Dunn looks really good in the slight beard. Wow, we all knew that was coming---it hit like a freight train and then boom! we're off again. 6. Loved that she confided the whole thing to Logan. 7. Love, love that she has confided everything to Wallace. 8. I guess it really couldn't be Abel Koontz. 9. Love, love, love that Logan wants her to trust him so he came clean first about the salt licks (?) and even about drugging Duncan. Blames himself. 10. I repeat: There is NO WAY that taping equipment is Logans. Does not fit his M.O. Pure Aaron (Aaron the film star). 11. Maybe Aaron did seduce Lilly. Or maybe, Lilly got left alone in the pool house, much like Veronica, and she discovered the taping equipment AND she found a tape in there. I'm thinking maybe a tape of Aaron with the other young male movie star who was at the poker game who Logan was jealous of because he'd co-starred in things with Aaron. Ick ick. But that could be Lilly's secret and I could so see her attempting to blackmail Aaron and Aaron turning on her. Wow! What a roller-coaster ride. Still feeling the whiplash. Will rewatch with Allison tomorrow. (And Carolyn wants to see last week, this week and next week when she comes home again on May 13.) Clever clever thoughts on all this Sue. I also liked the way they handled the rape. Made it non-con, but for both. Made so many people culpable, yet not. Made both Logan and Duncan a part of the drugging and the sex, yet in a way that both Veronica and the audience understand. Kept the icky creepy feel of the party, while also making it just a jumble for everyone. And really tells us a lot about what's going on with the kids of Neptune, eh?
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Post by Lola m on May 3, 2005 21:55:10 GMT -5
I know one thing, I don't think I will ever drink a drink I didn't pour myself, eewwww! Yep.
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Post by Sue on May 3, 2005 21:55:52 GMT -5
Yes. That was quite disgusting, and I've never heard of that expression before. Gah. I don't think that's where the GHB came from. She (Dick's girlfriend) didn't seem to be impaired. Did we see who actually gave Veronica the drug? I was being interrupted right and left tonight. Karen, Did you get this cleared up? Dick put the GHB (I know somebody told Erin it was GSB, but it sounded like "h" to me) in Madison's drink to make her compliant. But he put it in regular (not sugar-free) soda so she rejected the soda. She spit in it and handed it to Veronica----thinking she was just giving V a "trip to the dentist"---drink with spit in it; when she really unknowingly gave V the drugged drink. Totally random. Veronica was never targeted (on purpose), altho she surely was taken advantage of once she zoned out. The worst perpetrators were the boys who kept feeding her shots and taking advantage of her. {And, yes, we got the "safe sex" message when somebody tossed a condom at Beaver, but I'm thinking that Duncan surely didn't use one. Man, if the sheriff had taken her seriously and used a rape kit and found Duncan's DNA.....yeesh.}
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Post by Karen on May 3, 2005 21:56:35 GMT -5
i thought dick said something about how he'd been going to give his girlfriend a dose, but she didn't take it. so my understanding is that dick's girlfriend (madison, right?) saw veronica walking by and wanted to give her a spit-in drink, so she spit in the drink dick had given her (before ever drinking from it herself) and stuck it in veronica's face so veronica would take it, not even realizing that it had been drugged by dick as well (since dick had been planning to do it non-consensually to his girlfriend). is this what you guys remember? Ah, yes this makes a lot of sense. I wonder why Dick would put it in full-sugar pop when he knew that his girlfriend was doing Atkins, tho? Something just isn't adding up for me. But it makes sense that that is where Veronica got the drug.
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Post by cari on May 3, 2005 21:56:49 GMT -5
i missed most of the episode. i have been waiting for this episode for weeks and am so upset that i missed it. can anyone give me a recap of what happened? I really want to know.
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Post by Lola m on May 3, 2005 21:57:08 GMT -5
i thought dick said something about how he'd been going to give his girlfriend a dose, but she didn't take it. so my understanding is that dick's girlfriend (madison, right?) saw veronica walking by and wanted to give her a spit-in drink, so she spit in the drink dick had given her (before ever drinking from it herself) and stuck it in veronica's face so veronica would take it, not even realizing that it had been drugged by dick as well (since dick had been planning to do it non-consensually to his girlfriend). is this what you guys remember? Yep. And thank you for saving me from trying to explain that. 'Cuz my brains aren't up to the task!
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Post by artemis on May 3, 2005 22:00:20 GMT -5
just a couple more notes before i head to bed.
i loved wallace & veronica's friendship in this episode - how he called her on stuff at the beginning, how she told him a lot of her recent history both for itself and as a way to help explain why she has such trust issues, how he pointed out that he could turn her down for the illegal stuff they do if he wanted to.
i loved veronica & keith's too, even how his first instinct when hearing about clarence's threats to alicia was to ask veronica if she wanted to take a different job, and how he respected her decision when she told him she didn't want to do that.
i also liked the whole alicia/keith/wallace/veronica foursome dynamic in this episode - including how mature veronica was about alicia and keith's relationship in it (though who knows what'll happen next with with lianne back in town [and for how long?]).
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Post by Pixi on May 3, 2005 22:04:31 GMT -5
Ooh, excellent point. Thank you. Okay - I'm just working my way through the posts. I called Duncan - yeah me. Logan - god could someone wipe up the puddle that is me on the floor? Okay - I just don't freaking believe he knows about this. And Veronica is running off again without talking to him?Come on. I think Aaron is responsible for this and throwing this into the mix must mean it plays into the murder. I'm still backing my Aaron as murderer theme. Maybe he films all his sex conquests. Maybe he had sex with Lilly and filmed it. For God's sake Veronica - Logan is all up front and confessional with you, can you not at least ask him? Grrrrrrr - Rob Thomas - 2 freaking Logan/Veronica relationship cliffhangers in a row? GRRRRRRR!!!!!! Okay - back to working my way through the posts. I couldn't get Hudson off line.
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Post by artemis on May 3, 2005 22:06:46 GMT -5
(last post tonight, really! ) [Need to remind my daughters to never take a drink from anyone else. Anyone!] very good advice, especially at college campuses in the u.s. i've a relative who's a college professor and hears students' stories similar to veronica's with saddening (and maddening) regularity.
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Post by Pixi on May 3, 2005 22:06:49 GMT -5
And can I say I've been completely man-smitten by Logan's devilish charm, gentlemanly ethics, and intense delivery? *sighs in semi-homoerotic appreciation* Hee, hee. And we Logan/ Veronica shippers suck another one in. Jason Dohring and his wonderful acting. Swoon! (realizing I'm being all Mrs. Robinson here but damm is he fine).
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Post by Pixi on May 3, 2005 22:08:42 GMT -5
Since I did not sleep much last night, for obvious reasons, I am going to drink some milk, crawl under the covers and let the television put me to sleep. 'Night S'cubies. Sleep well and take care. Night Onjel. Sleep well. Glad there's another new convert to the VM team.
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