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Post by Linda on May 23, 2005 22:09:23 GMT -5
This dynamic is my favorite on the show. I’ve almost stopped expecting Keith to suddenly turn into a tentacled alien octopus thingy.<snipped> But, but, dude! What happened to "Never give up. Never surrender"? Maybe they just tuned in to a much, much, much better quality show! So maybe he could still be a tentacled alien thingy. Linda, who cut back on the number of "much"-es for sentimental & nostalgic reasons. P.S. Saw Galaxy Quest a few weeks ago because I needed the silliness. "Whoever wrote this episode needs to DIE!" ;D P.P.S. Disclaimer: The above quote has absolutely nothing to do with any VM episode ever aired. Those writers need to stay in good health so that they keep on writing. For many more seasons. Or at least until Logan recovers his soul and saves the world becomes a diamond. Or maybe a buckyball. 'Cause those are really cool -- although the process to manufacture buckyballs is a bit more complex than applying pressure and heat and diamond-dust polish...and there may be other atoms besides carbon involved, so the symbolism gets pretty tricky... P.P.P.S. Apologies for overexplaining everything. And for digressing. I must be stopped. P.P.P.P.S. Stopping now. Really. P.P.P.P.P.S. But isn't "buckyball" fun to say?
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Post by Linda on May 23, 2005 22:11:43 GMT -5
Hi all!
First of all, thank you to everyone for your fun and insightful posts! I am so sorry that I haven't had the opportunity or the braincells to post squee! or *nod* or LOL! for each one.
I've already mentioned that I agree with Sue on just about everything in her review. I just wanted to weigh in on why I personally believe that it is Wallace at the door in the end.
It has already been mentioned that Wallace was not in the episode very much. Thematically, it makes sense, since the Lilly Kane murder happened before his arrival. (BTW, I love Rae's theory that Veronica was bidding Lilly good-bye and greeting Wallace as the best friend of her new life.)
Character-wise, Wallace's absence also makes sense in light of what happened in the episode: Keith broke up with and *hurt* his mom. It would be hard for him to come over to the Mars house after that, especially when he believed that Veronica agreed with Keith's decision. Perhaps he even knew that Veronica was the reason for this decision.
One of the many, many reasons I cheered for Veronica's words to Lianne and Alicia's presence at Keith's bedside was that the most painful and seemingly intractable issue between Veronica and Wallace is now gone.
That is why it seems to me that Veronica's relieved smile is entirely appropriate if Wallace is the one at the door.
Linda, late, late, late
P.S. I still want V/L to happen, though. (Sorry Rob!)
P.P.S. Prediction-wise, I think I am batting zero for VM, so Yay! for everyone who doesn't want it to be Wallace. (For some reason, the name Pixi comes to mind...)
P.P.P.S. Oh, and all you V/L shippers out there, don't worry (for some reason, the name Pixi still comes to mind): I am not *predicting* that V/L will happen, I just *want* it to. I have hopes, not expectations. (Oops, wrong show.) Nevertheless, I don't think I've jinxed it. #xfingers#
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Post by Sue on May 23, 2005 22:11:51 GMT -5
So, the primary themes of the main fathers are:
- Mars – Protect the family.
- Kane – Protect the name.
- Echolls – Protect the image.
Or by levels of us vs. them: - Keith - Everyone matters
- Jake - Only family matters
- Aaron - Only I matter
or by motivation: - Mars family - Do the right thing, no matter the personal cost. (Superego?)
- Kanes family - Do the smart thing. (Ego?)
- Echolls family - Follow your impulses. (Id?)
I like that last grouping as it applies to most members of each family (except Lianne Mars). And these are wonderful as well. See my comment to Sharky re "taking credit" for sparking the brilliance of both your clever summations.
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Post by Sue on May 23, 2005 22:16:26 GMT -5
Slowly working my way thru replying to the review comments.
Have to say two things:
Saw a promo for new fall series: "Commander In Chief" starring Geena Davis as a female (obviously) VP who becomes President. Looks like Kyle Secor is playing her husband. Could mean way less Jake Kane, unless some contracts have already been signed.
Sigh.
Also, regarding UPN's placement of VM on the fall schedule.
Actually, I believe the campaign we should start is to write to Les Moonves of CBS (we are both alumni of the same college---Bucknell---but he was 3 years ahead of me) and urge him to grab the show for CBS since UPN is clearly trying to kill it off.
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Post by Lola m on May 24, 2005 7:25:27 GMT -5
This dynamic is my favorite on the show. I’ve almost stopped expecting Keith to suddenly turn into a tentacled alien octopus thingy.<snipped> But, but, dude! What happened to "Never give up. Never surrender"? Maybe they just tuned in to a much, much, much better quality show! So maybe he could still be a tentacled alien thingy. Linda, who cut back on the number of "much"-es for sentimental & nostalgic reasons. P.S. Saw Galaxy Quest a few weeks ago because I needed the silliness. "Whoever wrote this episode needs to DIE!" ;D P.P.S. Disclaimer: The above quote has absolutely nothing to do with any VM episode ever aired. Those writers need to stay in good health so that they keep on writing. For many more seasons. Or at least until Logan recovers his soul and saves the world becomes a diamond. Or maybe a buckyball. 'Cause those are really cool -- although the process to manufacture buckyballs is a bit more complex than applying pressure and heat and diamond-dust polish...and there may be other atoms besides carbon involved, so the symbolism gets pretty tricky... P.P.P.S. Apologies for overexplaining everything. And for digressing. I must be stopped. P.P.P.P.S. Stopping now. Really. P.P.P.P.P.S. But isn't "buckyball" fun to say? #rofl1# Really! Don't give up on the tentacle thing! **sings, "I believe . . "** buckyballbuckyballbuckyballbuckyballbuckyball ;D
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Post by artemis on May 28, 2005 12:48:21 GMT -5
i'm so very late. thanks for the great review, sue! without your getting S3 turned onto VM, i wouldn't have started reading the reviews here and probably wouldn't have found you all at all. i know i'm not the only person for whom this is true -- both registered users and lurking guests. so, thanks in general, too, sue! as to specifics of the review, i'm so late that others have already said almost everything i had to say about it. i especially appreciated the playing the three families off of each other.
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Post by raenstorm on May 31, 2005 18:34:45 GMT -5
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Post by Cal on Jun 15, 2005 13:54:51 GMT -5
Thanks to our lovely Rae, I've now seen all of the first season of VM. Thanks, Rae! After watching the first eleven episodes, I posted (in my LJ) my thoughts on the season up to that point. I've copied some of them below: I was hooked on this show from the opening scene. The characters are very believable and they draw you in straight away. I love Veronica. She's sassy and bright, but with an underlying sadness about her. I love the flashbacks. Not only because they give us more information about the Lily Kane murder, but also because they give us an insight into all of the characters. I felt like I knew these people from the word go.
My second favourite character so far (after Veronica) is Weevil. I'm not sure what it is about him, but I warmed to him almost straight away. Even though he is such a bad ass (maybe that's the reason I like him so much *g*), he is very likeable. There is a certain vulnerability about him.
Now we get to Logan. I've tried to avoid spoilers as much as possible, but from all the icons I've seen on my flist, I know that Logan is a popular character. I have to admit that I didn't warm to him at first. I found him intriguing, but I wasn't sure that I liked him. That was at first. But the more I see him, the more fascinated I am by him. There is so much more to him than meets the eye. And I hate his father. He makes my skin crawl. *shudder*
Wallace is lovely. He makes me want to hug him. Not in a sexy way, you understand. He brings out the mother in me. I can't say that about Logan or Weevil.
I adore Keith Mars. The relationship between him and Veronica is one of the things I love about this show. A father/daughter relationship can be such a wonderful thing...even if it turns out that Keith is not Veronica's biological father. The possibility of him not being Veronica's real father crossed my mind very early on.
Duncan Kane. I still can't quite make my mind up about him. On the surface he seems like such a nice guy. But is he? I loathed Aaron Echolls from the second I saw him, but it never even crossed my mind that he might be the murderer...not until Veronica found the tapes. I thought the finale was wonderful from start to finish. I was literally on the edge of my seat for the whole episode. My initial intrigue/dislike of Logan has very much turned into love. I find him fascinating, with so many different layers to him. He is now by far my favourite character, followed by Veronica and then Weevil. As to the speculation of who was at the door at the end of the finale... My initial thought was that it had to be Logan. But that was probably because I wanted it to be Logan...oh, how I want it to be Logan! *sigh* Yes, I have turned into a hopeless Logan/Veronica shipper. It never even crossed my mind that it might be Duncan. I find Duncan fairly bland, and I'm still not sure exactly what I think of him (how much that has to do with the character, or the fact that the actor does absolutely nothing for me at all, I don't know)...but he definitely isn't the right person for Veronica (imo of course). The only other person it could be would be Wallace. And if that's the case, why the cliffhanger? Why not just show him? It's feasible that it could be Wallace, of course. As other people have said, Veronica has just been dreaming about Lily, so it makes sense that she would open the door to her new BFF. But again I say, why the cliffhanger? Only time will tell. I can't wait for season 2! I just hope I can find somewhere to download it from. I don't think I'll be able to bear having to wait too long to see it!
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Post by SpringSummers on Jun 15, 2005 16:13:55 GMT -5
Thanks to our lovely Rae, I've now seen all of the first season of VM. Thanks, Rae! After watching the first eleven episodes, I posted (in my LJ) my thoughts on the season up to that point. I've copied some of them below: I was hooked on this show from the opening scene. The characters are very believable and they draw you in straight away. I love Veronica. She's sassy and bright, but with an underlying sadness about her. I love the flashbacks. Not only because they give us more information about the Lily Kane murder, but also because they give us an insight into all of the characters. I felt like I knew these people from the word go.
My second favourite character so far (after Veronica) is Weevil. I'm not sure what it is about him, but I warmed to him almost straight away. Even though he is such a bad ass (maybe that's the reason I like him so much *g*), he is very likeable. There is a certain vulnerability about him.
Now we get to Logan. I've tried to avoid spoilers as much as possible, but from all the icons I've seen on my flist, I know that Logan is a popular character. I have to admit that I didn't warm to him at first. I found him intriguing, but I wasn't sure that I liked him. That was at first. But the more I see him, the more fascinated I am by him. There is so much more to him than meets the eye. And I hate his father. He makes my skin crawl. *shudder*
Wallace is lovely. He makes me want to hug him. Not in a sexy way, you understand. He brings out the mother in me. I can't say that about Logan or Weevil.
I adore Keith Mars. The relationship between him and Veronica is one of the things I love about this show. A father/daughter relationship can be such a wonderful thing...even if it turns out that Keith is not Veronica's biological father. The possibility of him not being Veronica's real father crossed my mind very early on.
Duncan Kane. I still can't quite make my mind up about him. On the surface he seems like such a nice guy. But is he? I loathed Aaron Echolls from the second I saw him, but it never even crossed my mind that he might be the murderer...not until Veronica found the tapes. I thought the finale was wonderful from start to finish. I was literally on the edge of my seat for the whole episode. My initial intrigue/dislike of Logan has very much turned into love. I find him fascinating, with so many different layers to him. He is now by far my favourite character, followed by Veronica and then Weevil. As to the speculation of who was at the door at the end of the finale... My initial thought was that it had to be Logan. But that was probably because I wanted it to be Logan...oh, how I want it to be Logan! *sigh* Yes, I have turned into a hopeless Logan/Veronica shipper. It never even crossed my mind that it might be Duncan. I find Duncan fairly bland, and I'm still not sure exactly what I think of him (how much that has to do with the character, or the fact that the actor does absolutely nothing for me at all, I don't know)...but he definitely isn't the right person for Veronica (imo of course). The only other person it could be would be Wallace. And if that's the case, why the cliffhanger? Why not just show him? It's feasible that it could be Wallace, of course. As other people have said, Veronica has just been dreaming about Lily, so it makes sense that she would open the door to her new BFF. But again I say, why the cliffhanger? Only time will tell. I can't wait for season 2! I just hope I can find somewhere to download it from. I don't think I'll be able to bear having to wait too long to see it! Glad you enjoyed VM. I thought you would. Feel free to add comments on any of the eps, on any of the threads!
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Post by Sue in Chicago on Jun 15, 2005 20:07:53 GMT -5
Thanks Rae, in the hecticness of life at the time, I missed this. Very cool for S3 to be mentioned. Great site too, this looks like the "slayage" or "Buffy.nu" of Veronica Mars. I followed a few of the links to comments about the finale. The critics sure do love VM. What does this not comfort me?
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Post by Lola m on Jun 16, 2005 18:05:39 GMT -5
Thanks to our lovely Rae, I've now seen all of the first season of VM. Thanks, Rae! After watching the first eleven episodes, I posted (in my LJ) my thoughts on the season up to that point. I've copied some of them below: I was hooked on this show from the opening scene. The characters are very believable and they draw you in straight away. I love Veronica. She's sassy and bright, but with an underlying sadness about her. I love the flashbacks. Not only because they give us more information about the Lily Kane murder, but also because they give us an insight into all of the characters. I felt like I knew these people from the word go.
My second favourite character so far (after Veronica) is Weevil. I'm not sure what it is about him, but I warmed to him almost straight away. Even though he is such a bad ass (maybe that's the reason I like him so much *g*), he is very likeable. There is a certain vulnerability about him.
Now we get to Logan. I've tried to avoid spoilers as much as possible, but from all the icons I've seen on my flist, I know that Logan is a popular character. I have to admit that I didn't warm to him at first. I found him intriguing, but I wasn't sure that I liked him. That was at first. But the more I see him, the more fascinated I am by him. There is so much more to him than meets the eye. And I hate his father. He makes my skin crawl. *shudder*
Wallace is lovely. He makes me want to hug him. Not in a sexy way, you understand. He brings out the mother in me. I can't say that about Logan or Weevil.
I adore Keith Mars. The relationship between him and Veronica is one of the things I love about this show. A father/daughter relationship can be such a wonderful thing...even if it turns out that Keith is not Veronica's biological father. The possibility of him not being Veronica's real father crossed my mind very early on.
Duncan Kane. I still can't quite make my mind up about him. On the surface he seems like such a nice guy. But is he? I loathed Aaron Echolls from the second I saw him, but it never even crossed my mind that he might be the murderer...not until Veronica found the tapes. I thought the finale was wonderful from start to finish. I was literally on the edge of my seat for the whole episode. My initial intrigue/dislike of Logan has very much turned into love. I find him fascinating, with so many different layers to him. He is now by far my favourite character, followed by Veronica and then Weevil. As to the speculation of who was at the door at the end of the finale... My initial thought was that it had to be Logan. But that was probably because I wanted it to be Logan...oh, how I want it to be Logan! *sigh* Yes, I have turned into a hopeless Logan/Veronica shipper. It never even crossed my mind that it might be Duncan. I find Duncan fairly bland, and I'm still not sure exactly what I think of him (how much that has to do with the character, or the fact that the actor does absolutely nothing for me at all, I don't know)...but he definitely isn't the right person for Veronica (imo of course). The only other person it could be would be Wallace. And if that's the case, why the cliffhanger? Why not just show him? It's feasible that it could be Wallace, of course. As other people have said, Veronica has just been dreaming about Lily, so it makes sense that she would open the door to her new BFF. But again I say, why the cliffhanger? Only time will tell. I can't wait for season 2! I just hope I can find somewhere to download it from. I don't think I'll be able to bear having to wait too long to see it! So very cool to read your thoughts midway through the season and then at the end. The character of Logan just sucks you in - so many layers to him - and the actor is amazing. Eetah on your love for Weevil and Wallace (although I will admit to feeling something other than motherly about Wallace ) There is just something about Aaron Echolls right from the start, isn't there? Harry Hamlin deserves kudos for his performance. I mean, he's chilling even in that simple, apparently innocent scene when he drives Veronica home after he learns that she and Logan are now involved. Creepy. Yet even the scene where he beat up the bad boyfriend didn't prepare me for the final episode. That was just . . . stunning. So glad you enjoyed the show!!
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rach
N'ubie
Posts: 2
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Post by rach on Dec 11, 2005 20:02:53 GMT -5
well we finally came to the season finale on Friday night (New Zealand) Although lately i have been reading too much about season two and somewhat recked the excitement it was still VERY exciting!!! Also think the disappointment of Logan and VM not being together stole some of the excitement for me and am dying to see what happens between them next season - as least Logan seems to feature alot in next season - of which everyone else on this site already is several steps ahead of me! Have discovered a friend whom watches VM but had to hold back my excitement in talking about it as would sound like crazed fan esp when talking about L and VM - thats why i like this site as lots of like -minded VM Crazys - i mean that in the nicest possible way and have added myself to crazy list too!!! but VM just sucked me in - although since L/VM started got really interesting and having read a few forums relating to VM have at least discovered am not only "crazy" person out there. All up it seems to me that the L/VM storyline had a duo purpose (and forgive me if already discuss -b ut we (NZ) are far behind) in that if VM and L hadn't got together then she wouldn never had ended up looking for the note and found the video tapes. But still crushed for poor logan when VM thought he was the killer - i guess she has good reason not to be trusting person! anyways am looking forward to season two - starting next year boo hoo and have already began looking to second one of DVD to keep me going!!
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Post by Lola m on Dec 12, 2005 8:11:18 GMT -5
well we finally came to the season finale on Friday night (New Zealand) Although lately i have been reading too much about season two and somewhat recked the excitement it was still VERY exciting!!! Also think the disappointment of Logan and VM not being together stole some of the excitement for me and am dying to see what happens between them next season - as least Logan seems to feature alot in next season - of which everyone else on this site already is several steps ahead of me! Have discovered a friend whom watches VM but had to hold back my excitement in talking about it as would sound like crazed fan esp when talking about L and VM - thats why i like this site as lots of like -minded VM Crazys - i mean that in the nicest possible way and have added myself to crazy list too!!! but VM just sucked me in - although since L/VM started got really interesting and having read a few forums relating to VM have at least discovered am not only "crazy" person out there. All up it seems to me that the L/VM storyline had a duo purpose (and forgive me if already discuss -b ut we (NZ) are far behind) in that if VM and L hadn't got together then she wouldn never had ended up looking for the note and found the video tapes. But still crushed for poor logan when VM thought he was the killer - i guess she has good reason not to be trusting person! anyways am looking forward to season two - starting next year boo hoo and have already began looking to second one of DVD to keep me going!! I know what you mean about how it's nice to have another friend in real life to talk to about the show, but being worried you will seem like "too much" of a fan. ;D As you say, it's a good thing that places like this exist, eh? I really liked your point about how if Veronica and Logan hadn't gotten together, Lilly's murderer may never have been found - because otherwise Veronica wouldn't have thought to look for a tape. I hadn't really thought of it that way before.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Sept 3, 2006 18:42:31 GMT -5
Hey, It's that guy. paternity test results. the suspense is killing us. something tells me this isn't going to last music matching the meal what do dick and cassidy know? avoiding logan breaking up with Alicia when did we become republicans? hmm... kane familial bliss a) its too early to reveal the murderer b) the kanes didn't actually see anything, they just assumed Ah, so Logan no longer has an airtight alibi So she doesn't confront him about the video surveillance when things get out of control, I need to be alone. OK. he gives her an open invitation. and she doesn't take it. so if the border patrol had that info, how could Logan's alibi have been airtight. Weevil whispering in Veronica's ears So the Kane's never bothered with paternity tests either. Evidence, people, evidence!!! nothing she wants from them. Except the scholarship. Keith and Veronica. Aw.... Air Conditioning vent trick Weevil's justice interrupted. Logan sees Lamb for what he is He wouldn't call Veronica if he really did kill Lilly tilted camera angles Keith finds out about Veronica and Logan through Lamb. Ouch. Veronica: hard-boiled Logan's explanation Nice disguise Ah, her mom's not detoxed. Nice subtlety. Hee! Duncan catches her videotapes. Hmm.... Weevil has the letter that Logan wrote, twas in the spy pen This is a fantastic editing job for a home movie. October 1st IT'S AARON!!!!!!!!! GAH!!!!!!!!!! And here's how it happened. So is she explaining all this to Duncan, or is this reconstruction just in her head? So Duncan knew that Aaron beat Logan? You're not my sister? Sweet! Let's make out!!! DeathWishLogan. jewels. heh heh. I'm 12. #yikes# That is one scary son of a bitch. smart thinking, Veronica nice red lighting inside refrigerator doesn't Keith have a cell phone on him? from which he could call 911? imagery: fridgerator engulfed in flames this is so Buffy and Giles at the end of Passion Back-Up to the rescue!!!! YAY!! #claps# #claps# So is Duncan having another fit, because he's strangely non reactive Veronica cuts her ties with her mom Veronica chooses Alicia. Yay!! Ech. She takes the 50k. this is how things are going to be lily fantasies. life with lilly as a fantasy. need to face reality now.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Sept 3, 2006 19:31:00 GMT -5
Well - Beaver started Veronica on Logan's trail, which put her on to looking in the air vent, which is how she found the tapes, which is how she fingered Aaron. Also - might be a bit of a crude play on words, since it turns out to be all about Aaron's dalliance with what he calls a "17 yr old piece of ass." Gosh. It was actually Spring who suggested the final possible explanation for the name. The one that I figured was too . . . out there. Does that mean I am more pure and wholesome than Spring? ;D #rofl1#
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