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Post by Matthew on Nov 21, 2006 22:22:07 GMT -5
Okay: so this theory takes it back to Dick: The Pi Sigs are exacting a hell of a price on certain of their pledges to join the fraternity: Dick, and his "did a bad bad thing" losing it to Logan... maybe he was told to rape a girl, and did it. And that's why he's all remorseful: and he in turn "did" Chip in order to point back to the root of all of this. But this presumes a level of smartitude that is hard to put on Dick, even if he's got the same genes as his brother...
BUT he does know that dangling a hint in front of Veronica is like waving a string in front of a cat...
Two different groups, with different aims: Patrice Petrelli's co-pledges aiming to get rid of the Greek system. Dick trying to shrive himself of whatever insane thing he is freaked out about....
Now I'm just babbling...
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Post by Lola m on Nov 21, 2006 22:23:35 GMT -5
"I can appreciate it monetarily" Perfect amount of cynicism and weary practicality in her voice there. RL had to come in handy for her a few times doing this role, I'll bet. That was a good idea, good request on his part. Because they really really do need to do that. I still don't think it will work, but . . . Well, he's getting desperate. Good scene, wasn't it? Surprising, painful, real-feeling.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 21, 2006 22:24:55 GMT -5
"Mrs. Rose is hoping for a moment alone with her husband" "Counting on him to do the wrong thing" "Early anniversary present" Oh, boy./ Getting rid of the greek system at the school. Same pledge class. Hmmm. Fake multiple rapes. Oh god. Oh, holy hell. Wonder whose was real, other than Chip's. This is a very important question!! Tell me about it!
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Post by Lola m on Nov 21, 2006 22:26:46 GMT -5
Thoughts: I think Veronica does love Logan: I just think she was feeling particularly misanthropic when he called her: and I think that that group of women have been either working opportunisitically to drug and fake-rape women (wonder how Parker got home that night she was shaved) or to fake their own rapes, in an a zealous misguided drive to get all Greek life off the campus. Cripes, when something like that happens, you go after the chapter. I'm no greek, but I know a lot of people that were, and it wasn't a bad fit for all of them. They weren't all rapists and slimeballs. And there's something else in the mix: none of those girls would have raped Chip to leave a hint aimed at back at them. Oooh, that's a good point. So, if they didn't attack Chip, then . . . ?
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Post by Lola m on Nov 21, 2006 22:31:04 GMT -5
Okay: so this theory takes it back to Dick: The Pi Sigs are exacting a hell of a price on certain of their pledges to join the fraternity: Dick, and his "did a bad bad thing" losing it to Logan... maybe he was told to rape a girl, and did it. And that's why he's all remorseful: and he in turn "did" Chip in order to point back to the root of all of this. But this presumes a level of smartitude that is hard to put on Dick, even if he's got the same genes as his brother... Yes, there still is that "bad bad thing", isn't there? But I agree, Dick is generally a "simple guy" and this seems a bit too complex for him. But being coerced by his frat brothers? Could happen. Or being set up by them to rape a girl while he was himself too drunk to quite know what was going on? That I could see. There is that . . . Well, I'm pretty much babbling too. I mean, I can't tell if there were any actual rapes at all . . . which I'm sure Veronica is thinking as well. And the fake ones make investigating any real ones that much more difficult.
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Post by Becky H on Nov 22, 2006 8:40:02 GMT -5
Color me confused. I watched this last night thinking, for the most part, "Who are these people?" The only person who seemed totally like himself was Dick. Everyone else was "off." I'm not buying the LoVE relationship right now. How long have Logan and Veronica known each other? How much crap have they seen? And it's now that he's getting all protective and puppy-dog eyed? Where's the snark? Where's the wit? Where's the respect? And I'm still having trouble with the whole Mercer-Mexico thing. I'm hoping that this will be explained but right now I'm having difficulties reconciling the protective, concerned, hovering Logan we're seeing with his supposedly loutish activities in Tijuana.
Now, the whole rape thing is a fake? What about Parker? When V walked in on her, was that consensual? Was that just an opportunistic head-shaving on the part of Nose-Ring Girl, who drove Parker home?
Finally, where's Mac? Where's Weevil? Where's the show I used to love?
I'm still sticking with it but I am not a happy camper right now!
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Post by Sue on Nov 22, 2006 9:06:11 GMT -5
Color me confused. I watched this last night thinking, for the most part, "Who are these people?" The only person who seemed totally like himself was Dick. Everyone else was "off." I'm not buying the LoVE relationship right now. How long have Logan and Veronica known each other? How much crap have they seen? And it's now that he's getting all protective and puppy-dog eyed? Where's the snark? Where's the wit? Where's the respect? And I'm still having trouble with the whole Mercer-Mexico thing. I'm hoping that this will be explained but right now I'm having difficulties reconciling the protective, concerned, hovering Logan we're seeing with his supposedly loutish activities in Tijuana. Now, the whole rape thing is a fake? What about Parker? When V walked in on her, was that consensual? Was that just an opportunistic head-shaving on the part of Nose-Ring Girl, who drove Parker home? Finally, where's Mac? Where's Weevil? Where's the show I used to love? I'm still sticking with it but I am not a happy camper right now! Hey Becky, I had the same thought about the irregulars---not much screen time or story for any of them. Apparently some of the rapes were faked. But not all. I don't think the one that happened last year that Veronica investigated was fake. And not Parker's. So the girls who are faking are seriously muddying the waters. However, I don't have an issue with the LoVe parts. Logan has lost a lot and his previous true love was brutally murdered. Plus he knows Veronica has been attacked and may be being stalked. Yeah, I totally get that he'd go round the bend and try to "protect" her in spite of his knowledge of her personality. Veronica, now, going off alone at night? Stupid. But I almost even get that. She's trying to something to herself. (You know, the old, "if the terrorists make us change our lifestyles then they've won" argument.) But sometimes it's SMART to take precautions and be careful.....and scared! Why isn't she working with Logan. Invite him along? I'm pretty sure Veronica is terrified/unwilling to give up anything of herself to a partnership with Logan. She thinks being love will make her weak, dependant, and vulnerable. She's even more damaged than Logan with regard to relationships.
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Post by Sue on Nov 22, 2006 9:07:35 GMT -5
Observation:
Lamb is piling up more and more toward Veronica.
First the scene with the Dean dissing him and immediately turning to V. Then the phone conversation.
I believe this will have some serious consequences down the line.
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Post by Michelle on Nov 22, 2006 9:29:32 GMT -5
Mr. Sheffield! **looks around for nanny; realises what this reveals about bad TV that I now have admitted to having watched; slinks away** I can top that--I recognized him from when he was on Days of Our Lives! I'm so ashamed. It was great to see Veronica & Keith working together, but I was a little confused by that scene. Were Veronica and Keith purposely letting Lamb know they faked him out just to rub it in his face?
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Post by Michelle on Nov 22, 2006 9:32:10 GMT -5
"Repungent" heh "Keister eggs" Really "wrecked him" Bwahahahahah!!!! "Pinball wizard"!!! Those jokes were priceless! I especially loved the Keister egg comment. Not to think about this too much, not that I want to think about it AT ALL, but I really, really hope that some sort of lubricant was used on the plastic egg.
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Post by Michelle on Nov 22, 2006 9:37:53 GMT -5
Ah, Dick. Ever reliable . . . "Poor Chip. You really wrecked 'em." Ouch! Painful puns. #rofl1# Painful, indeed. I'm with you, Lola. It was great to see Wallace again, but I am not loving his short hair. He looked strangely naked. Agree! The Keith/Veronica interaction was good to see. But, I also think Veronica was trying a little too hard to put up a front with Keith. She's no longer avoiding him now that he's broken it off with Harmony, so instead she's putting on this fakey, almost over-the-top jokey persona as a defense mechanism. He tells her he's only a phone call away, and Logan begs her to be careful, but still she goes it alone and repeatedly puts herself in dangerous situations. I guess she wouldn't be Veronica if she DIDN'T do this, but it seemed like she really pushed it this episode.
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Post by Michelle on Nov 22, 2006 9:40:09 GMT -5
Oh, Logan, don't take it personally... she's just feeling particulary misanthropic at the moment. Too late. He took it personally. I had the exact same thought! I didn't go to the web site they posted, but I hope people who did came out strongly against Piz becoming a love interest. He just ain't Veronica's type.
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Post by Michelle on Nov 22, 2006 9:43:10 GMT -5
Oh, what a perfectly done scene! Painful and ouchy and real. Both of them right and both of them wrong. Veronican making him know she's been scared. "You don't care?" Ouch! "I care that you're safe." "You know who I am." Telling him she isn't going to change what she does, how she works. "You know who I am, but you constantly ask me to change." Ouch! Even as you know that's true you still think you're in the right. Ouch, again. And then, the thing that is at the heart of it all. Do you love me? She says yes. He says can we go easier on each other. We're OK. No. No, you're not OK. No, she didn't say "yes," she said, "yeah." Did you notice that? And I'll have to watch it again, but I don't even think she looked him in the eye when she said it. I do think she loves him, and I'm so glad she said it, but she's pulling away--again. Painful, painful stuff. I agree--very well done scene.
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Post by Michelle on Nov 22, 2006 9:54:37 GMT -5
Did y'all catch all The Big Lebowski references? The whole scene where Keith talks to Brandt, and then walks in to see Rose in a wheelchair is a blatant rip off of a scene from that movie. I could not stop laughing!!
If you haven't seen that movie, I urge you to check it out--it's weird and bizarre, and has numerous quotable lines. It's obvious that the VM writers love that movie, they reference it quite a bit. Last season, Veronica was mimicking The Dude's lines while watching the movie with Duncan. That's one that quickly comes to mind right now.
I'm going to have to watch this ep again. The girl jumping/falling off the roof? That's a new wrench in the works. And the whole thing with Hallie had me a bit confused. Even though she was shown in the previouslies, I did not recognize her right away. Oh, her line, "You're blocking my sun," is yet another Lebowski reference.
Becky--Mac will be in the next episode. I look forward to that, I've missed seeing her.
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Post by Pixi on Nov 22, 2006 10:36:06 GMT -5
Look at this sad little thread - only 2 pages, whereas Heroes was 12 pages the next day at this time. But it's only an accurate reflection on a show that just doesn't get it anymore.
Sigh!
I've been sadly remiss in commenting on the reviews, mostly because my VM love is at an all time low but you did a terrific job Fotada on your last review. I read it and enjoyed it but just didn't have that much to say.
My reactions to this show:
Dohring gives another of his spectacular "This is how you act Ladies and Gentlemen" performances in Lord of the Pis and manages to break into a thousand tiny, hurting pieces at the end of the episode. As an acting teacher I just enjoy the amazing way he uses his face to say a thousand words without opening his mouth. So, so sweet. I also enjoyed the fact that he got a chance to reclaim his balls and speak up for himself - FINALLY - in this episode. His calling Veronica out on her desire to have him change was magnificent. A great scene that both Bell and Dohring nailed.
I was not that big a fan of this episode. It had it's moments but overall it left me with a "eh" feeling. Yea, yea, Veronica sort of, kind of says I love you with about so little enthusiasm and emphasis that it really meant nothing. Couple that with the ignoring the phone call almost immediately afterwards means that it was just a throw the fans a bone, take it away again right away moment. That's not the love scene I've been waiting to see.
Things to like:
Ryan Hansen is always such a shot in the arm in the episode. Loved every minute he was onscreen.
Keith and Veronica go to Disneyland. That was a cute scene, a little casual for someone breaking into someone's property for me but the lines were cute.
Dean O'Dell - I just become more and more a fan each time I see him. He is doing a magnificent job.
Logan - for knowing he stepped over the line and hired a bodyguard but doing it anyway, for standing up to Keith, for standing up to Veronica and for once again getting his heart shattered. The best thing about Veronica Mars for me. This is where my heart is, this is why I keep watching.
Things to dislike:
All the Veronica fans will jump all over me for this but I find it very, very hard to even like Veronica any more. Where are the underlying hints of vulnerability that made her snarky responses in Season 1 so heartbreaking? Where is the feeling, the empathy, the compassion? Why should I care what happens to her when she treats almost everyone so badly including her father and her boyfriend? I have tried to understand (if the writers had even half a brain they would have Veronica suffering nightmares or flashbacks to her rape, things that show us how this is affecting her and then she hides this pain by her uberbitchy/ubersarcastic lines and then, then we would sympathize) Why should I sympathize now?
I honestly feel sort of clueless about the rapist. I guess the only person left standing in the field of possibilities is Moe. He does have keys to all the rooms, he made that comment about the sociology experiment changing him, I honestly have no idea who else it could be.
Mercer - no, has an alibi. Feminists - no, not all of them. Parker, the one from last year - real rapes. Piz - sadly no. (obviously a future love interest of the blech, boring Duncan mode) Professor Landry - just an adulterer not a rapist Dick - no Tim Foyle - no.
Who else is left? Has to be Moe. What a boring resolution. Someone barely seen and who cares.
I'm seeing these kinds of lists everywhere since the resolution is next week so I just thought I'd add in my two cents. What does everyone else think?
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