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Post by Lola m on Feb 20, 2007 22:29:53 GMT -5
Wow!!!!! What an episode! Shocking ending and all, I actually loved this ep. Excellent snark from start to finish, from Veronica and Keith and Logan and Mac and Wallace and, frankly, from Lamb. A mystery that was actually mysterious but that I guessed once I knew he was sick (a suicide disguised as a murder, I guessed - a nice mirror image of Dean O'Dell - a murder disguised as a suicide). New information about the long mystery arc and some very cool noir camera angles and excitement and tension. Wow, I say again. Wow! I will have to actually post my "as I was watching" notes, but I had to get this out there right off the bat. Wow! Hee! I loved parts of it. I loved Logan and the scavenger hunt. I loved Veronica behind bars. Weevil finding the bloody gloves and Keith in his sheriff uniform. Vinnie and Cliff and even Mrs. O'Dell and the way she was lighted. But I didn't like Lamb getting killed by the meth-head ex. At all. I appreciate the "realness" of it, though. The very sordid and small-time grungy way that life can be. And poor Sachs, so lost. I was so glad that Keith had followed them, to step in and have the ambulance called and so on.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 20, 2007 22:36:31 GMT -5
Josh on a beach with his father's message. DAMMIT. I hate it when insurance fraud doesn't work out. Pissed-off daddy. so waht's in the flue? Evidence! Woohoo! Gloves! This case will NEVER be solved! DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN. Don, you idiot, I'm gonna miss you so much. So that's why he's been job-hunting on his blog. Oh, bloody dammit dammit dammit. I'm gonna miss that flawed sweet brave idiot so much. I'm pretty sure there is going to be hue and cry and uproar. Wondering how many fans will leave? Well, there's internet-savvy fans, who may cause the most hue and cry but are not necessarily that numerous. And then there is the larger audience as a whole, which . . . well, may have just seen it as an exciting episode. No, she really doesn't. And actually, Logan and Parker were, I will boldly say it, actually rather good together. She's fierce in her own way and holds her own with Logan, but IMHO she's not as, odd to put it this way . . . not as wounded or guarded as Veronica. Even with all she's been through recently. Awwwww. I thought they were just too cute. She just looke so happy! And like Matthew, I was really happy to see her have a good bedroom experience. Something a lot nicer than her night with Cassidy. (You know, I think that's why I tentatively like Logan and Parker. He looked happy again. And we don't get to see that often enough. ) Ah, yes. Good times, good times indeed.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 20, 2007 22:42:46 GMT -5
"Girl has serious friendship skills" Every single moment of "prison Veronica" was a hoot, frankly. I loved her basically conducting business from behind bars while providing classic snark all through it. From the new tattoo and "carton of smokes, currency on the inside" to the final "who wants out of jail?" "I do! I do!", it was most excellent. ;D And how could I not love the most excellent Clifford and his "I just remembered I need to return Caged Heat to the video store". Wallace was so wicked! And keeping such an innocent look on his face the whole time. Josh was just full of haste. I can't believe he was foolhardy enough to deliberately give himself an allergic reaction like that, in order to escape.
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Post by Matthew on Feb 20, 2007 22:50:07 GMT -5
"Girl has serious friendship skills" Every single moment of "prison Veronica" was a hoot, frankly. I loved her basically conducting business from behind bars while providing classic snark all through it. From the new tattoo and "carton of smokes, currency on the inside" to the final "who wants out of jail?" "I do! I do!", it was most excellent. ;D And how could I not love the most excellent Clifford and his "I just remembered I need to return Caged Heat to the video store". Wallace was so wicked! And keeping such an innocent look on his face the whole time. Josh was just full of haste. I can't believe he was foolhardy enough to deliberately give himself an allergic reaction like that, in order to escape. I think he may have faked it: I don't know if he trusted the sherrif's dept enough to comprehend what anaphylactic shock was.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 20, 2007 23:16:34 GMT -5
Every single moment of "prison Veronica" was a hoot, frankly. I loved her basically conducting business from behind bars while providing classic snark all through it. From the new tattoo and "carton of smokes, currency on the inside" to the final "who wants out of jail?" "I do! I do!", it was most excellent. ;D And how could I not love the most excellent Clifford and his "I just remembered I need to return Caged Heat to the video store". Wallace was so wicked! And keeping such an innocent look on his face the whole time. Josh was just full of haste. I can't believe he was foolhardy enough to deliberately give himself an allergic reaction like that, in order to escape. I think he may have faked it: I don't know if he trusted the sherrif's dept enough to comprehend what anaphylactic shock was. **smacke forehead** Why didn't I think of him faking it? ;D I'll have to post the rest of my watching notes tomorrow. It's beddy bye time for now.
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Post by jeff on Feb 20, 2007 23:30:40 GMT -5
Loved the Jailhouse scenes! the tatoo, pushups, "this girls not gonna be nobody's bitch!
Friend of Dorothy! (although Wallace again is sorely underused!)
we know who much I am not a Veronica/Logan fan! So I for one absolutely loved Logan/Parker interaction. They were very cute together. She got her jabs in on him. very nicely done, I would not object at all to that pairing!
Love where they are taking the how to catch a murderer who wrote the book on how to get away with murder! This will be very interesting to see how it plays out!
with all this being said, I DESPISE the fact that they killed off Lamb! I know he was basically everyones whipping boy, but I enjoyed him being the whipping boy! and Michael Muhney played the character with style. Also the fact that the man just became a browncoat. So he was moving up high on my list!
I guess they had to because they really need to get Kieth more involved in everyday activities on the show. I just hated to see lamb go.
I too think this is the last year for VM. and we have been spoiled, very good point about Joss and his character developement, you just dont see what he can do with character developement on TV anywhere. Period.
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Post by Pixi on Feb 21, 2007 11:46:21 GMT -5
Josh on a beach with his father's message. DAMMIT. I hate it when insurance fraud doesn't work out. Pissed-off daddy. so waht's in the flue? Evidence! Woohoo! Gloves! This case will NEVER be solved! DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN.
Don, you idiot, I'm gonna miss you so much. So that's why he's been job-hunting on his blog.
Oh, bloody dammit dammit dammit. I'm gonna miss that flawed sweet brave idiot so much. Well put.
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Post by Sue on Feb 21, 2007 11:53:26 GMT -5
Hee! I loved parts of it. I loved Logan and the scavenger hunt. I loved Veronica behind bars. Weevil finding the bloody gloves and Keith in his sheriff uniform. Vinnie and Cliff and even Mrs. O'Dell and the way she was lighted. But I didn't like Lamb getting killed by the meth-head ex. At all. I appreciate the "realness" of it, though. The very sordid and small-time grungy way that life can be. And poor Sachs, so lost. I was so glad that Keith had followed them, to step in and have the ambulance called and so on. Wow, people had very little to say.... See, now here is where I'm conflicted (Lola's comment above). I'm not totally anti-death, even to characters I like. I wasn't around when Jenny Calendar's death happened the first time. (I caught it in FX reruns, where time passes much more quickly.) I can only imagine the fan outcry at the time. Her death, tho, meant something on so many levels. It affect Giles for the rest of the series. And and far-reaching repercussions on Willow; Xander's hate for Angel and all vampires; Angel himself; and Buffy---her actions at the time in finally going after Angelus; her view of Angel/Angelus; her long-term guilt; her sense of failing Giles; even her motivation in going after Anya in season 7. Had Firely been allowed to play itself out through 7-8 season on TV I suspect we would have still lived the deaths of both Book and Wash over a period of time. And that those deaths would remain part of historical character memory for the entire show. But Lamb's death? He died. A junkie hit him on the head with a bat---party because he wasn't so great at his job. Then the junkie died. The "repercussion?" Keith gets appointed sherrif again. The end. I'm not sure how else it could have been done, but it feels cheap. As Lola points out, maybe that is exactly the highly realistic point. Cheap, pointless deaths at the hands of addicts while doing their jobs ..... happen. But....it still doesn't totally sit right with me. It was a throwaway death. Here's the thing though. I enjoy VM. Maybe it doesn't "live up to" season one all the time but it's still fun TV. But it's not in my gut like Buffy was. So, when it does something like this that doesn't quite live up to how or what Joss might have done it also doesn't totally devestate me, like Jenny's death. I"m sorry he's dead. I'm even sorry it was a "cheap" death. But it doesn't ruin the show for me. I"m not sure whether that is a good thing or a bad thing.
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Post by Pixi on Feb 21, 2007 12:07:09 GMT -5
And I see we're back on the roller coaster. As much as I enjoyed last week's episode, this one left me meh. I mean there were small moments - anytime you get Cliff and Vinnie is a good thing. And Jason having some fun, also cute. But mostly this left me bored. I'm sorry for those who liked it and I'm not trying to be mean but they decided this was good? This was the way to go? I don't get it.
Seriously - someone explain to me how making Keith Sheriff again works? Because isn't this show's theme that corruption exists everywhere, especially among those in power and Veronica goes up against that corruption? Haven't they just, you know, torpeded a basic core theme of the show?
Sheriff Lamb - Rest in Peace. I have really enjoyed you on the show and you deserved far, far more. I liked you with a bit more of an edge in the earlier seasons to be honest but you made your mark. To be ignimoniously killed offscreen, with barely any notice taken by those around you is sad, sad, sad. I have always appreciated the enthusiasm Michael has had for the show. The way he took the time to reply to his fans and make himself available was a smart move for his career and also showed his personality. This seemed a poor reward for all he has done.
As for the mystery - didn't care, didn't cry. (I just didn't like the protagonist)
Logan and Parker - whatever. Way to take the few things I care about on this show anymore and make it nothing. Oh well. I hope Logan has fun and does lots of college things like the Scavenger hunt and makes friends and is never made to feel like crap anymore.
As for who killed the Dean? I'm sadly again on the I don't really care that much train. I like Landry and Mindy in a Echolls lite way but I'm not really invested in this mystery very much.
Do you remember Season 1 where we breathlessly analzyed every single clue to try and figure it out? And we were still doing it in Season 2. I remember all the polls, the guesses. I haven't even formed a theory. I mean, I guess it has to be Tim now since it won't be Landry or Mindy or Richard Greico. Or little Goth rebel son.
Eeek- I'm very much a downer aren't I and I really don't feel that way. I mean, I stopped caring passionately a long time ago and this, well this was just an episode of tv. I was far more excited to watch GG last night (and that's saying something!) and find out how Emily reacted to Lorelai's news.
But in the good news department - Logan, still pretty. (though with sadly less sexy scruff)
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Post by Michelle on Feb 21, 2007 13:53:03 GMT -5
Very interesting observations about Lamb's death, Sue. I hadn't thought of it that way. I was VERY surprised that he had been killed off. This changes the whole scope of the show, in my opinion. One of the most interesting parts of the show was that Veronica and Keith were outcasts. They were both once on the inside and then were cast aside as the lowest of the low. Now the show has completely abandoned that. Veronica hasn't really been an outsider for some time, and now Keith is going back to being the sherrif. It's full circle, and I'm not sure if that is a good thing.
But my general impressions of last night's ep are pretty positive. They really amped up the noir, and packed a lot of action in, even before the credits ran. And there was Wallace! And Mac! And Vinnie!! And Cliff! And Weevil! So, that's good.
I don't mind that Logan appears to be moving on. I believe Piz is in the wings for Veronica as well, and while I was once a gung-ho LoVe shipper, I think the ship has sailed. I am tired of the constant breaking up and getting back together. I am tired of not liking Veronica. I am tired of Logan acting out of character. This show just plain makes me tired sometimes!
But if Logan has to move on, why not with someone who is, well, interesting? I would rather see him get with Mac than with Parker. She has appeared in several eps, yet I still barely recognize her when she's on screen. "Who's that again? Oh yeah, Mac's room mate." Sigh.
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Post by KMInfinity on Feb 21, 2007 17:27:39 GMT -5
I enjoyed the episode very much. Lots of snark, good character interaction, drama, twists, action, etc. etc. However, as people have been noting, this kind of episode does expose the flaws in VM that make me appreciate BtVS all over again. Because despite all the goodness, there are, at the core, flaws. As Pixi said, there's just not the passion that could have been. Seriously - someone explain to me how making Keith Sheriff again works? Because isn't this show's theme that corruption exists everywhere, especially among those in power and Veronica goes up against that corruption? Haven't they just, you know, torpeded a basic core theme of the show? And that's the biggest flaw for me that was exposed last night. I really REALLY don't think that making Keith the Sheriff is the right move.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 21, 2007 17:45:04 GMT -5
Loved the Jailhouse scenes! the tatoo, pushups, "this girls not gonna be nobody's bitch! Friend of Dorothy! (although Wallace again is sorely underused!) we know who much I am not a Veronica/Logan fan! So I for one absolutely loved Logan/Parker interaction. They were very cute together. She got her jabs in on him. very nicely done, I would not object at all to that pairing! **nods** I liked them together. Complex in their own way, but not as angsty as Veronica and Logan together. Me too! We got a fair amount of reminders / clues / info last night, too. Like: * Mel Stoltz, the thug-ish alumni being there the day of the murder * Landry was being bugged and it wasn't Keith or Veronica (if we can trust her statement ) * Dean O'Dell was out of his prescription, (why lie about that to his secretary?) and yet he had some in his system * His wife picked up the pills and admits some are "missing" from that script but that she did not bring it to him that night; says she took them herself * the shot happened an hour later than we originally thought (turns out that Clipper game was relevant ) * the wife's skeezy drug addict ex-husband's prints were on the dean's keyboard * the wife's skeezy drug addict ex-husband is obviously not adverse to killing someone, but a murder cleverly disguised as a suicide seems to have more . . . finesse than he is capable of Yep, I'm gonna miss Lamb. I wonder if they wanted Keith back in the sherrif job to show him struggling with losing some of the . . . leeway he's had as a private detective? I'm still enjoying the show, but it has been more erratic. I guess I'll just enjoy what I get for as long as I get it and that will be that. If it's the last year (probable), well, there's lots of good shows on now, so I'll cope.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 21, 2007 17:47:39 GMT -5
I appreciate the "realness" of it, though. The very sordid and small-time grungy way that life can be. And poor Sachs, so lost. I was so glad that Keith had followed them, to step in and have the ambulance called and so on. Wow, people had very little to say.... See, now here is where I'm conflicted (Lola's comment above). I'm not totally anti-death, even to characters I like. I wasn't around when Jenny Calendar's death happened the first time. (I caught it in FX reruns, where time passes much more quickly.) I can only imagine the fan outcry at the time. Her death, tho, meant something on so many levels. It affect Giles for the rest of the series. And and far-reaching repercussions on Willow; Xander's hate for Angel and all vampires; Angel himself; and Buffy---her actions at the time in finally going after Angelus; her view of Angel/Angelus; her long-term guilt; her sense of failing Giles; even her motivation in going after Anya in season 7. Had Firely been allowed to play itself out through 7-8 season on TV I suspect we would have still lived the deaths of both Book and Wash over a period of time. And that those deaths would remain part of historical character memory for the entire show. But Lamb's death? He died. A junkie hit him on the head with a bat---party because he wasn't so great at his job. Then the junkie died. The "repercussion?" Keith gets appointed sherrif again. The end. I'm not sure how else it could have been done, but it feels cheap. As Lola points out, maybe that is exactly the highly realistic point. Cheap, pointless deaths at the hands of addicts while doing their jobs ..... happen. But....it still doesn't totally sit right with me. It was a throwaway death. Here's the thing though. I enjoy VM. Maybe it doesn't "live up to" season one all the time but it's still fun TV. But it's not in my gut like Buffy was. So, when it does something like this that doesn't quite live up to how or what Joss might have done it also doesn't totally devestate me, like Jenny's death. I"m sorry he's dead. I'm even sorry it was a "cheap" death. But it doesn't ruin the show for me. I"m not sure whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. Doesn't ruin the show for me either. I'll miss him, but I'm glad he died "in the line of duty", as it were. We got to see him being a cop - risking his life in service to the good folks of Neptune. And I'll be intrigued to see how Keith fares now that he's got what he supposedly wanted. See if it is really what he wanted after all. Plus, it must be a temporary appointment. He'd have to be elected again, yes?
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Post by Lola m on Feb 21, 2007 17:53:28 GMT -5
And I see we're back on the roller coaster. As much as I enjoyed last week's episode, this one left me meh. I mean there were small moments - anytime you get Cliff and Vinnie is a good thing. And Jason having some fun, also cute. But mostly this left me bored. I'm sorry for those who liked it and I'm not trying to be mean but they decided this was good? This was the way to go? I don't get it. Seriously - someone explain to me how making Keith Sheriff again works? Because isn't this show's theme that corruption exists everywhere, especially among those in power and Veronica goes up against that corruption? Haven't they just, you know, torpeded a basic core theme of the show? Hmmmm. I can see that, for sure. I can also see a couple of reasons to keep the theme going even with Keith in there. I guess I'll just have to wait and see. I guess I'm seeing his final moments as the ones where he was on screen. Searching the house, trying to see if Mrs. O'Dell was ok, trying to catch a suspected murderer. The assault was very nicely done for me, with poor Sachs shooting the guy and being in shock from it all, and Lamb's final quiet words as the blood pooled around him and all. But hey, like I was saying to Rachael over on the BSG thread, there is no s'cubie hive mind - everyone's gonna have their own take on things. Still pretty and still snarky.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 21, 2007 17:57:04 GMT -5
Very interesting observations about Lamb's death, Sue. I hadn't thought of it that way. I was VERY surprised that he had been killed off. This changes the whole scope of the show, in my opinion. One of the most interesting parts of the show was that Veronica and Keith were outcasts. They were both once on the inside and then were cast aside as the lowest of the low. Now the show has completely abandoned that. Veronica hasn't really been an outsider for some time, and now Keith is going back to being the sherrif. It's full circle, and I'm not sure if that is a good thing. Maybe we'll see how non-outsiders have been changed by the outsider-ness and come to the inside with a different perspective than before? I had much love for Cliff and Vinnie last night. ;D Even the little touches, like the skeezy ex of the Dean's wife saying to him "Do I know you?" ;D **pets Fotada**
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