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Post by Lola m on Feb 27, 2007 22:34:41 GMT -5
Huh. Bugged? Veronica, watch out with the abuse of the trust.. CDs Taps? Other than the irony... BAD reference... And Tim's heard it before? Yeppers!! I can't exactly say I called it on this one, but at least I was including the right answer in with my multiple choices. ;D Heeee! We are soooo vindicated in our "Tim is guilty against all possible evidence" feelings. ;D |
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Post by Lola m on Feb 27, 2007 22:36:05 GMT -5
"Papa's cabin" Actually, it's probably some creepy hemmingwayesque thing to refer to himself. Clever you, with the Hemmingway connection.   It was the beard. The beard was warping his mind until he HAD to kill, kill, Kill! |
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Post by Lola m on Feb 27, 2007 22:39:47 GMT -5
Huh. Tim's not too bad on the analytical.. CRAP it was Hemmingway himself. I HATE his nickname for himself. They're both dead on the boat. Tim kiled them. And really, in a way he did.  By turning them on each other. Well, somehow I think he knew Veronica wasn't going to say "don't". YES!! The moment he was all "ok we'll talk about it" and looking so happy and smug, I knew he was gonna hang himself. ;D Ha! Take that, creepy beard T.A. guy! I was thinking that was a lead-in to our next mystery too.  |
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Post by Lola m on Feb 27, 2007 22:42:26 GMT -5
Congratulations to MATTHEW! on voting for Tim to have done it! (and also to whomever else it was that voted for him). Excellent episode of typing everything together nicely! Directing intense S'cubie anti-vibage at the Pussycat Dolls show. Many congrats to Matthew! I will confess that while I wanted it to be Timm with the burning firey passion of a thousand suns, I actually voted my "silly" choice. The goth son. ;D Just 'cuz. But I am very very pleased with this ep. Excellently done mystery. **direct evil vibes at Dolls show** |
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Post by Karen on Feb 27, 2007 22:45:01 GMT -5
"Papa's cabin" Actually, it's probably some creepy hemmingwayesque thing to refer to himself. Clever you, with the Hemmingway connection. It was the beard. The beard was warping his mind until he HAD to kill, kill, Kill! Yay Matthew and Lola! You guys are so smart! I only figured it out when Tim started hyper-talking during class. The bad guys always talk too much and give themselves away. Dummass. Congrats again! |
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Post by jeff on Feb 27, 2007 23:19:59 GMT -5
I thought it might be him when he showed up with the disposable cell phone from Landry's office. Nice work Matthew and Lola!
Great episode. I am gonna miss this show, how long is the break, like 6 freaking weeks? ugh!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Pixi on Feb 28, 2007 7:14:36 GMT -5
That was a sad, boring finale.
It was fairly obvious early on that it was indeed bad wig, lucky Tim as the murderer and that took the suspense out of the show. I was hoping Landry would turn out to be wicked and nefarious and maybe even shoot someone. Maybe flat out criminal minds evil, but no. He cries (and cries badly may I say as an acting teacher) like a baby when he's caught.
"Keith, Keith, my woman she done me wrong. And um . . . oopsie, I sort of knocked her overboard. But I'm so freaking sad, you must understand."
Gah!
So mystery = boring.
What about relationships? Hey, this is an arc finale, we'll have bonding moments like Leave it to Beaver or Not Pictured. The regulars will be together, reaffirming all the things we love so much.
Huh. One scene with Wallace where he's trying to be a good friend and she makes with the quips. I guess they were hoping those who watch GG would just love that Gilmore Girls line. Okay - no Mac, no Weevil (now reduced to sad, pathetic janitor). Maybe a good scene with Logan, fraught with sexual tension and longing. After all, he came to the jail, there was a moment.
Okay then. Logan is moving on, Veronica maybe cares - hard to tell with Bell's acting these days but anyhoo we have new relationships. That I care about why? Parker's nice and all but I haven't been watching this show to see her hook up with Logan.
There was no heart, no warmth, no anything. Am I supposed to care that Tim got caught? Because he and Veronica shared some whacky hijinks this episode? I don't care. Haul his badly coiffed ass off to jail. There is no passion people, no reason to care about this.
The only scene that worked was the final scene between Keith and Veronica. It was sweet and true to character. That worked. (But it was no Mr. Bennett getting his mind wiped to save his daughter scene). And what about all the Keith might die anvils? And honestly, just because your dad is Sheriff doesn't mean you get to just flaunt the law and sashay about the police station. I kind of hated that.
Oh well. I'm not bashing. I just don't understand. This was VM by the numbers. Solve, twist, solve, second twist, clue, Veronica moment, ending. We got all that. It was just lifeless. And you have no idea how much I hate posting like this. I want to burble damn it.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 28, 2007 13:20:07 GMT -5
That was a sad, boring finale. It was fairly obvious early on that it was indeed bad wig, lucky Tim as the murderer and that took the suspense out of the show. I was hoping Landry would turn out to be wicked and nefarious and maybe even shoot someone. Maybe flat out criminal minds evil, but no. He cries (and cries badly may I say as an acting teacher) like a baby when he's caught. "Keith, Keith, my woman she done me wrong. And um . . . oopsie, I sort of knocked her overboard. But I'm so freaking sad, you must understand." Gah! So mystery = boring. What about relationships? Hey, this is an arc finale, we'll have bonding moments like Leave it to Beaver or Not Pictured. The regulars will be together, reaffirming all the things we love so much. Huh. One scene with Wallace where he's trying to be a good friend and she makes with the quips. I guess they were hoping those who watch GG would just love that Gilmore Girls line. Okay - no Mac, no Weevil (now reduced to sad, pathetic janitor). Maybe a good scene with Logan, fraught with sexual tension and longing. After all, he came to the jail, there was a moment. Okay then. Logan is moving on, Veronica maybe cares - hard to tell with Bell's acting these days but anyhoo we have new relationships. That I care about why? Parker's nice and all but I haven't been watching this show to see her hook up with Logan. There was no heart, no warmth, no anything. Am I supposed to care that Tim got caught? Because he and Veronica shared some whacky hijinks this episode? I don't care. Haul his badly coiffed ass off to jail. There is no passion people, no reason to care about this. The only scene that worked was the final scene between Keith and Veronica. It was sweet and true to character. That worked. (But it was no Mr. Bennett getting his mind wiped to save his daughter scene). And what about all the Keith might die anvils? And honestly, just because your dad is Sheriff doesn't mean you get to just flaunt the law and sashay about the police station. I kind of hated that. Oh well. I'm not bashing. I just don't understand. This was VM by the numbers. Solve, twist, solve, second twist, clue, Veronica moment, ending. We got all that. It was just lifeless. And you have no idea how much I hate posting like this. I want to burble damn it. Well, I'm bummed on your behalf that you didn't like the ep or the mystery. And yeah, that's not bashing, we each get to have our own opinion, etc. etc. More that's it's just too bad you're not enjoying this show like you used to. I happened to really like this ep and this mystery 'cuz I think they really brought the noir with this one - which I love. To me, noir is all about the actual look and feel, and also the . . . . vibe of the case. I think they've been doing some very neat stuff with camera shots, colors, the "look" of characters. Angular shots with slanting light through shades during interrogations; the very Veronica Lake look of Mindy (as Matthew also seems to be enjoying ); even the shot of the Dean, slumped over his desk, with someone coming in through the door was classic and so I enjoyed that they kept including it in the "previouslies" every week. But also I think they got the vibe really right. Again, to me, noir needs a couple of important vibes. There's gotta be a sleazy element, usually contrasted with and mixed in with the "high tone" people. So we have the Dean, respected and prominent in society all mixed in with strippers/hookers and slimey druggy ex-husband. There's gotta be some element of tawdry or forbidden love/lust, so we had the classic wife cheating with a friend (or at least someone he knows/works with) and we parallelled that with Keith seeing a married woman and Mindy flirting with Keith and issues of "other women" coming up between Veronica and Logan and even Tim's rather freewheeling girlfriend from earlier. There's gotta be an element of corruption and betrayal; smallness of spirit, venal greediness, etc. So we have Tim killing the Dean almost casually ("everyone hated the Dean") just to bring down the mentor that he feels betrayed by. The mentor who started favoring someone better than him, smarter than him. Who used him as his T.A. but behind his back didn't recommend him for advancement. And finally, there's gotta be an element of . . . how do I explain it. And element of doom that you can see coming. So in this mystery I wasn't necessarily looking for a big surprise. Instead I wanted to see the train approaching and knowing that it was going to crash. The noir hero knows the femme fatale is going to betray him but he falls into her trap anyway. The corruption isn't going to be uncovered and fixed and we know that and the hero knows it. And so we have Landry and Mindy crash and burn in a way that was expected almost. They were spiraling down into a web of misunderstandings and mutual betrayal and being helped along that path by his supposedly loyal puppy. And we end the ep with Veronica's truthful and not so cheery observation that Justice doesn't really fix things. The Dean is still dead. Mindy is still dead. Landry is going to prison and will live the rest of his life knowing he killed his lover and it was all a mistake. Anyway, that's a lot of babbling on my part, but it's why I actually really liked this mystery arc and this ep. It wasn't the slam bam dangerous roller coaster of season one and Aaraon. But I like both mysteries each in their own way. Which still doesn't mean you have to feel differently, although for your sake of course I wish that a show you've loved in the past could have delivered for you again this time. |
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Post by Queen E on Feb 28, 2007 17:38:32 GMT -5
Lola: What a brilliant analysis; have you ever thought about grad school in film? |
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Post by Matthew on Feb 28, 2007 19:13:05 GMT -5
That was a sad, boring finale. It was fairly obvious early on that it was indeed bad wig, lucky Tim as the murderer and that took the suspense out of the show. I was hoping Landry would turn out to be wicked and nefarious and maybe even shoot someone. Maybe flat out criminal minds evil, but no. He cries (and cries badly may I say as an acting teacher) like a baby when he's caught. "Keith, Keith, my woman she done me wrong. And um . . . oopsie, I sort of knocked her overboard. But I'm so freaking sad, you must understand." Gah! So mystery = boring. What about relationships? Hey, this is an arc finale, we'll have bonding moments like Leave it to Beaver or Not Pictured. The regulars will be together, reaffirming all the things we love so much. Huh. One scene with Wallace where he's trying to be a good friend and she makes with the quips. I guess they were hoping those who watch GG would just love that Gilmore Girls line. Okay - no Mac, no Weevil (now reduced to sad, pathetic janitor). Maybe a good scene with Logan, fraught with sexual tension and longing. After all, he came to the jail, there was a moment. Okay then. Logan is moving on, Veronica maybe cares - hard to tell with Bell's acting these days but anyhoo we have new relationships. That I care about why? Parker's nice and all but I haven't been watching this show to see her hook up with Logan. There was no heart, no warmth, no anything. Am I supposed to care that Tim got caught? Because he and Veronica shared some whacky hijinks this episode? I don't care. Haul his badly coiffed ass off to jail. There is no passion people, no reason to care about this. The only scene that worked was the final scene between Keith and Veronica. It was sweet and true to character. That worked. (But it was no Mr. Bennett getting his mind wiped to save his daughter scene). And what about all the Keith might die anvils? And honestly, just because your dad is Sheriff doesn't mean you get to just flaunt the law and sashay about the police station. I kind of hated that. Oh well. I'm not bashing. I just don't understand. This was VM by the numbers. Solve, twist, solve, second twist, clue, Veronica moment, ending. We got all that. It was just lifeless. And you have no idea how much I hate posting like this. I want to burble damn it. Well, I'm bummed on your behalf that you didn't like the ep or the mystery. And yeah, that's not bashing, we each get to have our own opinion, etc. etc. More that's it's just too bad you're not enjoying this show like you used to. I happened to really like this ep and this mystery 'cuz I think they really brought the noir with this one - which I love. To me, noir is all about the actual look and feel, and also the . . . . vibe of the case. I think they've been doing some very neat stuff with camera shots, colors, the "look" of characters. Angular shots with slanting light through shades during interrogations; the very Veronica Lake look of Mindy (as Matthew also seems to be enjoying ); even the shot of the Dean, slumped over his desk, with someone coming in through the door was classic and so I enjoyed that they kept including it in the "previouslies" every week. But also I think they got the vibe really right. Again, to me, noir needs a couple of important vibes. There's gotta be a sleazy element, usually contrasted with and mixed in with the "high tone" people. So we have the Dean, respected and prominent in society all mixed in with strippers/hookers and slimey druggy ex-husband. There's gotta be some element of tawdry or forbidden love/lust, so we had the classic wife cheating with a friend (or at least someone he knows/works with) and we parallelled that with Keith seeing a married woman and Mindy flirting with Keith and issues of "other women" coming up between Veronica and Logan and even Tim's rather freewheeling girlfriend from earlier. There's gotta be an element of corruption and betrayal; smallness of spirit, venal greediness, etc. So we have Tim killing the Dean almost casually ("everyone hated the Dean") just to bring down the mentor that he feels betrayed by. The mentor who started favoring someone better than him, smarter than him. Who used him as his T.A. but behind his back didn't recommend him for advancement. And finally, there's gotta be an element of . . . how do I explain it. And element of doom that you can see coming. So in this mystery I wasn't necessarily looking for a big surprise. Instead I wanted to see the train approaching and knowing that it was going to crash. The noir hero knows the femme fatale is going to betray him but he falls into her trap anyway. The corruption isn't going to be uncovered and fixed and we know that and the hero knows it. And so we have Landry and Mindy crash and burn in a way that was expected almost. They were spiraling down into a web of misunderstandings and mutual betrayal and being helped along that path by his supposedly loyal puppy. And we end the ep with Veronica's truthful and not so cheery observation that Justice doesn't really fix things. The Dean is still dead. Mindy is still dead. Landry is going to prison and will live the rest of his life knowing he killed his lover and it was all a mistake. Anyway, that's a lot of babbling on my part, but it's why I actually really liked this mystery arc and this ep. It wasn't the slam bam dangerous roller coaster of season one and Aaraon. But I like both mysteries each in their own way. Which still doesn't mean you have to feel differently, although for your sake of course I wish that a show you've loved in the past could have delivered for you again this time. Yola? You rock my world so hardcore.  |
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Post by Pixi on Mar 1, 2007 8:02:37 GMT -5
It's okay Lola. The Scubie board and I have pretty much disagreed all season in reactions, so I was fairly sure my viewpoint would be unpopular.
I don't disagree with your analysis of noir. I just want my show to be enjoyable.
And having read numerous reactions on LJ, I'm not the only one who feels this was a flat episode, without heart and emotion.
It needed more.
It could have been fixed by introducing Tim as a sleuthing companion to Veronica earlier in the arc. Then the impact at the end might have had more resonance. Then we could feel V's pain at realizing her friend/co-sleuther was the murderer. The pain of betrayal. And Tim's pain could have been stronger. In fact the whole lame Morning after show would have had far more impact if Tim had been playing a bigger role in Veronica's life at this point.
And Landry's acting was so bad in the boat scene, that it completely destroyed the fourth wall. I wonder if the actor has ever had to cry before, he did it so badly.
I still like my show. I have no problems with this being more analytical as opposed to action packed. They just didn't bring any emotional feel to this climax.
Anyway, that's my opinion. And I'm fine over here in the less populated corner.
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Post by Sharky on Mar 1, 2007 10:40:51 GMT -5
It's okay Lola. The Scubie board and I have pretty much disagreed all season in reactions, so I was fairly sure my viewpoint would be unpopular. I don't disagree with your analysis of noir. I just want my show to be enjoyable. And having read numerous reactions on LJ, I'm not the only one who feels this was a flat episode, without heart and emotion. It needed more. It could have been fixed by introducing Tim as a sleuthing companion to Veronica earlier in the arc. Then the impact at the end might have had more resonance. Then we could feel V's pain at realizing her friend/co-sleuther was the murderer. The pain of betrayal. And Tim's pain could have been stronger. In fact the whole lame Morning after show would have had far more impact if Tim had been playing a bigger role in Veronica's life at this point. And Landry's acting was so bad in the boat scene, that it completely destroyed the fourth wall. I wonder if the actor has ever had to cry before, he did it so badly. I still like my show. I have no problems with this being more analytical as opposed to action packed. They just didn't bring any emotional feel to this climax. Anyway, that's my opinion. And I'm fine over here in the less populated corner. I'll sit in the corner with you, in a non-threatening way. Overall, this arc needed more passion. First, I didn't really care about Dean O'dell. They tried to give the character a few quirks, and having him write the recommendation letter for Veronica made me care a little more, but not enough to get invested in the search for his killer. It's a difficult balance for the show-runners, I understand. VM sits upon a tripod of MotW's, relationships, and the BMA (Bigger Mystery Arc). I feel like over the O'dell BMA, it was the BMA itself that was short-changed. I didn't buy Landry as the killer strictly because of the timing of the final episode. As soon as they switched to Tim asking Veronica to become his TA, I knew he was going to prove to be the killer. And, I hadn't seen enough of the character to care. The last couple of episodes seemed to me like the cast knows it's going to end, and they're wrapping it up. Keith gets his sheriff job back. Veronica and Logan find some peace, albeit apart. I hate to say this, but if VM goes on for another season, they're going to have to ratchet it up a notch. Take a page from Joss, and kill someone Veronica cares about. Then give Veronica an adversary who's frightening (ala Aaron) or a surprising twist (ala Beaver). Don't get me wrong - it's still one of the best things on television. I'll watch the show for the characters and dialogue, but I miss the more effective BMA's of the first two seasons. |
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Post by Sue on Mar 1, 2007 10:59:12 GMT -5
I'll admit that I'm curious to see how the standalone eps go. I think I've said before that as long as the format doesn't devolve into a "recipe" and the eps allow for greater use of peripheral characters AND more character development/exploration it could actually turn out to be a plus.
Adopting a wait and see attitude.
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Post by Onjel on Mar 1, 2007 11:14:41 GMT -5
It's okay Lola. The Scubie board and I have pretty much disagreed all season in reactions, so I was fairly sure my viewpoint would be unpopular. I don't disagree with your analysis of noir. I just want my show to be enjoyable. And having read numerous reactions on LJ, I'm not the only one who feels this was a flat episode, without heart and emotion. It needed more. It could have been fixed by introducing Tim as a sleuthing companion to Veronica earlier in the arc. Then the impact at the end might have had more resonance. Then we could feel V's pain at realizing her friend/co-sleuther was the murderer. The pain of betrayal. And Tim's pain could have been stronger. In fact the whole lame Morning after show would have had far more impact if Tim had been playing a bigger role in Veronica's life at this point.And Landry's acting was so bad in the boat scene, that it completely destroyed the fourth wall. I wonder if the actor has ever had to cry before, he did it so badly. I still like my show. I have no problems with this being more analytical as opposed to action packed. They just didn't bring any emotional feel to this climax. Anyway, that's my opinion. And I'm fine over here in the less populated corner. Actually, I agree that would have been a very good idea and V's hurt would have resonated more had that been done. So, your corner is a bit more populated, though I still liked the episode overall. |
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Post by Onjel on Mar 1, 2007 11:21:19 GMT -5
It's okay Lola. The Scubie board and I have pretty much disagreed all season in reactions, so I was fairly sure my viewpoint would be unpopular. I don't disagree with your analysis of noir. I just want my show to be enjoyable. And having read numerous reactions on LJ, I'm not the only one who feels this was a flat episode, without heart and emotion. It needed more. It could have been fixed by introducing Tim as a sleuthing companion to Veronica earlier in the arc. Then the impact at the end might have had more resonance. Then we could feel V's pain at realizing her friend/co-sleuther was the murderer. The pain of betrayal. And Tim's pain could have been stronger. In fact the whole lame Morning after show would have had far more impact if Tim had been playing a bigger role in Veronica's life at this point. And Landry's acting was so bad in the boat scene, that it completely destroyed the fourth wall. I wonder if the actor has ever had to cry before, he did it so badly. I still like my show. I have no problems with this being more analytical as opposed to action packed. They just didn't bring any emotional feel to this climax. Anyway, that's my opinion. And I'm fine over here in the less populated corner. I'll sit in the corner with you, in a non-threatening way. Overall, this arc needed more passion. First, I didn't really care about Dean O'dell. They tried to give the character a few quirks, and having him write the recommendation letter for Veronica made me care a little more, but not enough to get invested in the search for his killer. It's a difficult balance for the show-runners, I understand. VM sits upon a tripod of MotW's, relationships, and the BMA (Bigger Mystery Arc). I feel like over the O'dell BMA, it was the BMA itself that was short-changed. I didn't buy Landry as the killer strictly because of the timing of the final episode. As soon as they switched to Tim asking Veronica to become his TA, I knew he was going to prove to be the killer. And, I hadn't seen enough of the character to care. The last couple of episodes seemed to me like the cast knows it's going to end, and they're wrapping it up. Keith gets his sheriff job back. Veronica and Logan find some peace, albeit apart. I hate to say this, but if VM goes on for another season, they're going to have to ratchet it up a notch. Take a page from Joss, and kill someone Veronica cares about. Then give Veronica an adversary who's frightening (ala Aaron) or a surprising twist (ala Beaver).Don't get me wrong - it's still one of the best things on television. I'll watch the show for the characters and dialogue, but I miss the more effective BMA's of the first two seasons. I have to agree with you on this one, Sharky. Really. These people could stand to take a page out of Joss' book. |
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By turning them on each other.
