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Post by Lola m on Mar 9, 2007 13:34:18 GMT -5
Part I The rest of the confrontation. Prenups. Of course, it's always Tim. **nods** An important point, that. Interesting how Tim is eventually caught by somewhat of the same defect we can see in Veronica at times. Letting a bit too much smugness creep into his undercover persona. Being a bit too happy about how clever he thought he was.
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Post by Lola m on Mar 9, 2007 13:35:47 GMT -5
Coda OMG, She's dead! You know, some people are afraid of you. You think? Um, yeah. Don't discuss the case until it's prosecuted. Jeez. "our" perfect murder papers? Wasn't that a different class? Once a perpetrator starts improvising, the sloppier he becomes. Tim gives himself away. This classroom has the same stained glass as Mars Investigations? Downside of justice. Feels good but doesn't change anything? Isn't that about revenge? I don't like you exposed to all this crime and violence; it's going to warp your mind. Yeah, I think it's already too late for that. Yeah, Keith goes off into these periodic moments of "should protect Veronica from this stuff". And I think he just doesn't want to see that it's not going to work.
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Post by Lola m on Mar 9, 2007 13:37:49 GMT -5
I liked this episode and the mystery arc. I'm of the opinion that the show has been of consistent quality all the way along. And it's not the best show ever, but it's really good. I enjoyed that the players involved this time knew something about crime and yet were so bad at it. I particularly enjoyed after knowing that Tim's a TA for Landry, and all the sleuthing he did this mystery arc and the last one, and all his interactions with Veronica that it turned out that Tim was so bad at it, both investigating and at getting away with murder. That's a reveal that could not have happened if he and Veronica had been sleuthing together earlier in the season. Oh, very good point! Yep. Veronica's actions have a way of catching up to her later, after the hunt is done.
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Post by Lola m on Mar 9, 2007 13:40:08 GMT -5
i think at least part of the split in VM fandom has been because of two different uses of the term "standalone episodes". in a previous thread, sue used the example of magnum, p.i. those episodes are standalone in that they aren't (usually) connected up to a larger mystery; the mystery is self-contained. but if you tuned in just once or twice, you would probably be confused about the characters and their relationships, and might need someone there to help explain things to you. today, network execs usually use "standalones" to mean a show that you can flip to without needing background information. there is typically little character development because, in the framework they are using, character development actually impedes their goal of people being able to occassionally watch the show. these are the kinds of shows that almost never have a "previouslies". i suspect that at least part of the division over the change in fandom is because we don't know, yet, which kind of standalone the network and RT mean, and so each of us are assuming one or the other kind. Interesting distinction. And you're right, knowing which direction it will take would be good to know. On the other hand, I can't understand how anyone can expect to do an hour long dramatic show nowadays and not have some ongoing development - either of character or plot or both.
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Post by Pixi on Mar 13, 2007 14:21:57 GMT -5
Well I disagree with pretty much your whole post Vlad but hey - everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm happy it's making you happy.
And I brought snacks and drinks to our lonely corner guys. (Oh and Sharky - I think the perfect person they should have killed was Liane. It would have got Veronica invested, there could have been tons of suspects and well, there's just so much potential.) Hmmm- since Onjel only has one foot in the corner I'm not sure how much of the munchies she gets. Ohh and let's paint her toenails while she's not looking.
I have a feeling I'm going to be pretty firmly entrenched in my corner during the upcoming standalones. At least till Episode 20 so I brought pillows and an umbrella to duck under when others are heaping praise and I'll need to heep a little scorn.
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Post by Sharky on Mar 13, 2007 18:58:43 GMT -5
Well I disagree with pretty much your whole post Vlad but hey - everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm happy it's making you happy. And I brought snacks and drinks to our lonely corner guys. (Oh and Sharky - I think the perfect person they should have killed was Liane. It would have got Veronica invested, there could have been tons of suspects and well, there's just so much potential.) Hmmm- since Onjel only has one foot in the corner I'm not sure how much of the munchies she gets. Ohh and let's paint her toenails while she's not looking. I have a feeling I'm going to be pretty firmly entrenched in my corner during the upcoming standalones. At least till Episode 20 so I brought pillows and an umbrella to duck under when others are heaping praise and I'll need to heep a little scorn. Thanks for the snacks! And you're right, Liane would be perfect for getting Veronica invested in the case without risking the anger that might accrue from killing Keith or Wallace. Both of whom I considered, but hated myself for considering. I'm not as ruthless as Joss.
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Post by leftylady on Mar 15, 2007 17:32:51 GMT -5
Yes, Pixi, thanks for the snacks. I'll let you pick out the shade of polish for Onjel's nails. I guess we'll eventually see what they mean by "stand alone". Quick comments: **Since VM has always had "stand alone" Mysteries of the Week, I'm not sure what dynamic will be left if no more continuing mystery. **There's a thin line between "character development" and soap opera in some shows. I remember how the CW promo'd the early episodes Season 3 as Veronica and Logan high drama like VM was "One Tree Hill" - so hopefully the network won't mess with the character depth. [hmmmm, is there a smilie with a pitchfork?] **On the bright side: The Pussycat Dolls had a biiiig drop in ratings after week 1. ;D **More on the bright side: that obnoxious aerie.com panel hasn't been seen in weeks! Someone must have got the message that VM (and GG) viewers were not the target market for this. leftylady
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Post by Vlad on Mar 17, 2007 23:49:52 GMT -5
Well I disagree with pretty much your whole post Vlad but hey - everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm happy it's making you happy. And I brought snacks and drinks to our lonely corner guys. (Oh and Sharky - I think the perfect person they should have killed was Liane. It would have got Veronica invested, there could have been tons of suspects and well, there's just so much potential.) Hmmm- since Onjel only has one foot in the corner I'm not sure how much of the munchies she gets. Ohh and let's paint her toenails while she's not looking. I have a feeling I'm going to be pretty firmly entrenched in my corner during the upcoming standalones. At least till Episode 20 so I brought pillows and an umbrella to duck under when others are heaping praise and I'll need to heep a little scorn. Oh hey! Everyone is definitely entitled to their opinions. What makes the S3 so nice is that we are able to express those opinions and we actually try to back them up with why for us and no one actually insists their viewpoint is the correct one. In the end, few things are ever going to please the overwhelming majority. You get that and I get that. I do think this was the weakest season of VM to date, and the best of the shows this season were pretty much what would have been the middle of the road shows of the previous two seasons. I absolutely hated the fact that so many of the great secondary characters were left with so little to do. (ie. Wallace, Weevil, Mac, Sheriff Lamb and everyone's favorite shady lawyer, Cliff) By and large I didn't like this season's new characters: Piz (tho he grew a "bit" on me), Parker and there's this new boyfriend of Mac's. God, I am so torn about him. On the one part, for her, after all she's been through, she needs a good guy to prove to her that they exist. On the other... I can't STAND that actor. He looks like he came straight off a casting call for one "male, surfer blonde, slightly edgy, but charming good looks in a sort of traditional non-traditonal way." Blech. When it boils down to it, I hate his eyes. I keep finding myself hoping that he'll do something really evil and Veronica can out him and he goes away to prison or get shivved by a PCH'er or something. Sorry, got off on a tangent there! Ummm, where was I? Oh, this season. Yes... the second mystery arc seemed much more like it was trying to be the old Veronica. Not in a non-growth kinda way, but the snark was back quite a bit.. .the characters felt more true to their previous selves. Of course, everyone's mileage varies. I jsut know that towards the end of the rapist arc I was actively starting to lose interest in the show, then low and behold, with the Dean's murder, they sucked me right back in. I think it went a long way towards the Dean being a character I was interested in and had a connection to. It's hard to have that kind of connection to a bunch of basically nameless rape victims. I am talking from an entertainment stand-point of course, not a real life empathy thing! Veronica's long arcs work when there's a stable of a bunch of characters that you are interested in and care about. Witness Season One: The Kanes, the Eckles, Sheriff Lamb, Logan, Duncan. Witness Season Two: Logan, Woody, Beaver and Dick, Mrs. Casablancas, the Irish boys... This season's first half, we jsut didnt have those kinds of characters. No one was memorable or well drawn. IMO. Vlad
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