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Post by Sara on Jun 21, 2004 17:49:43 GMT -5
I think in some parts of southern China dogs were a food item, and may still be- this is the same parrt of China where tree civets were sold as food up until the SARS virus. It's true, however, that "dog-eater" is one of those species-wide human insults, so the feeling that it is a canard instead is well founded. I'd be discussing but I watched Serenity all in a chunk and didn't take notes so I'm out of sequence with events. However, what struck me most strongly from the in-port scenes was Kaylee's approach to Book: she noticies him, and analyses his behavior, and makes a connection with him based on what she sees which turns out, over all, to be a good thing for the Serenity, passengers and crew. But who brings the bad guy aboard? Julia, not a lot of abservational powers after the party It's never quite established who brings Dobson on board--he just slips onto the ship quietly, as opposed to Simon who gets a more detailed introduction (and an intro meant to give the impression that Simon may be the wolf in sheep's clothing). To answer's Nan's question, I hadn't given Dobson a lot of thought, at least not in comparison to other bad guys. He's a bit like the vamp Angel pushes out the window in "City of...", just there to stir up trouble, illustrate what some of the conflicts will be, and give us some insight into a few characters (most notably Simon and Jayne). So no, not much of a character in his own right, but I do tend to think he still served an important function. And I think the shooting does illustrate that everyone cares about Kaylee--including Jayne. But that's something for the review.
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Post by Sara on Jun 21, 2004 17:55:28 GMT -5
And I just hit Mal's "Huh." Great reaction shot.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jun 21, 2004 18:09:14 GMT -5
I'm here. I watched read all of Serenity and found the STOP marker of Mal's "Huh" at discovering River. Have I found the right place for discussion and why is nobody else here, discussing? I didn't get here til now cause the viewing was for 7pm and now its 8pm - which is an hour later...so if I had actually watched it, it would just now be over.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jun 21, 2004 18:10:57 GMT -5
Well, I can start. Zoe has hung onto her role as Mal's subordinate from the battle of Serenity (is that the right name)? It's not clear when she hitched up with Wash, but Wash is jealous of her relationship with Mal, sexless though it apparently is. It's *strong,* and Zoe will follow it whether Wash likes it or not. She's "career military" and is Mal's supporter first, Wash's wife second. However it's not clear how Mal views this, or if he takes it for granted and doesn't think about it at all. Zoe's simply there when he needs her, and it's one less thing he has to worry about. It seems they trust one another unconditionally (*very* unlike Mal's relationship with Jayne or even Wash himself, since Mal is also a pilot). Is that a start? yes, that's how I see the relationship at the start of the show. In fact, Zoe seems to be the one person Mal does trust.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jun 21, 2004 18:11:35 GMT -5
Hi, Sara. How's by you at the moment (nobody else here, so do I HAVE to be on topic?)? yes.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jun 21, 2004 18:13:20 GMT -5
I'd say that Dobson, the Alliance agent, is the least successful thing in part one: he's an unadorned baddie, with no complexifying although we see him up close and personal, as it were--unlike the Reavers. However, so much is going on in this (half)ep, with so many characters at odds and to keep track of, maybe it was felt we needed a really simple baddie to make the sides sort out so we could follow them. Through Dobson's shooting Kaylee, we realize that just about everybody (except Jayne, perhaps) is genuinely fond of Kaylee, and Mal calls her "little sister" in Chinese. We find that Jayne is out for himself and corruptable for the right price. We find out Book knows something about medicine and that Simon is extremely protective of his sister. So Dobson *does* serve to sort the sides out...I'm just not sure that's enough to justify the character. He's too much a function of the plot, not enough of a character in his own right (as the Master is, for instance). Any thoughts about Dobson? Just 'stay tuned' (so to speak)
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Jun 21, 2004 18:16:21 GMT -5
yes. [/img][/center]
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Post by Sara on Jun 21, 2004 18:19:29 GMT -5
I didn't get here til now cause the viewing was for 7pm and now its 8pm - which is an hour later...so if I had actually watched it, it would just now be over. I think we both may have presumed that folks might post as they were watching, as would sometimes happen during an Angel episode. You know, "Hey, WTF just happened?" "Hee, great line," that sort of thing.
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Jun 21, 2004 18:21:51 GMT -5
I think we both may have presumed that folks might post as they were watching, as would sometimes happen during an Angel episode. You know, "Hey, WTF just happened?" "Hee, great line," that sort of thing. Well, as for me, I discover the rules in my usual fashion: by blundering into them and then thrashing around. Don't sneer--it works for me!
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Post by raenstorm on Jun 21, 2004 18:29:23 GMT -5
I was watching it while also trying to finish watching Salem's Lot so it took me a bit longer than I planned. These are my notes as I took 'em... - Serenity Valley
- Not religious huh? Kissing the cross. He used to be optimistic... but the battlefield can do strange things to one's outlook on life.
- "We'll own this valley no matter what." "We are just too pretty for God to let us die."
- I love the 'quiet' of space.
- LOL. Gosh I love the dinosaur war. It always cracks me up.
- Going dark.
- lol I love the decoy. Think they have to remake that every time?
- "Sometimes you just want to duck tape her mouth and dump her in the hold for 3 months." "I love my captain." I love Kaylee!
- Cocky Mal. I love it.
- "Still a soldier?" Is he, still a soldier? Was he ever really one or just someone out to save his world/his freedom?
- So, we're getting set up..
Mal - The Soldier. The Captain. Cocky SOB. Yet, he cares strongly about his crew. Then again, he is the soldier. Soldiers make strong bonds with their fellow soldiers.
Zoey - His First Mate, definitely the one he trusts to have his back at all times. She's also the one who has no fear of Mal. I suspect, though, that she's only around out of loyalty. Ok, that's not true. I think she's also about the adventure and the maintaining some semblance of freedom away from the Alliance. In space, they can be as free as they can from the Alliance control. It's what she shares with Mal.
Wash - He's just along for the ride. He's there for Zoey and that's it. For him it's about his love for her and wanting to be with her than anything else. For that reason, he's loyalty to Mal is only second to his loyalty for Zoey.
Jayne - He's a man serving his own interests. Not sure if it's greed or just selfish desires. Yet, he cares about Kaylee (that moment rockin' back and forth while Simon works on her).
Kaylee - The Kind Heart of the group. She takes such pleasure in fruit. Seems to indicate she'll take pleasure in the little joys of life. She loves 'her' ship. The pride she had when she told Book it was the best ship. So different from the other man trying to get him. BTW, her nature is *why* everyone loves her and her getting shot changes everything happening on the ship.
Inara - (I'll save this one for the next half)
Book - A Shepard.. not in a rush. If it's the journey that matters, what kinda of ride is he looking for?
Simon - (I'll save this one for the next half)
River - (I'll save this one for the next half)
- Mal doesn't hold grudges.. Living for the mo' I'd say. He's not afraid to cut losses and move along. "Anyone gets nosy just, you know, shoot 'em. Politely."
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Post by Sara on Jun 21, 2004 18:41:25 GMT -5
I was watching it while also trying to finish watching Salem's Lot so it took me a bit longer than I planned. These are my notes as I took 'em... - Serenity Valley
- Not religious huh? Kissing the cross. He used to be optimistic... but the battlefield can do strange things to one's outlook on life.
- "We'll own this valley no matter what." "We are just too pretty for God to let us die."
- I love the 'quiet' of space.
- LOL. Gosh I love the dinosaur war. It always cracks me up.
- Going dark.
- lol I love the decoy. Think they have to remake that every time?
- "Sometimes you just want to duck tape her mouth and dump her in the hold for 3 months." "I love my captain." I love Kaylee!
- Cocky Mal. I love it.
- "Still a soldier?" Is he, still a soldier? Was he ever really one or just someone out to save his world/his freedom?
- So, we're getting set up..
Mal - The Soldier. The Captain. Cocky SOB. Yet, he cares strongly about his crew. Then again, he is the soldier. Soldiers make strong bonds with their fellow soldiers.
Zoey - His First Mate, definitely the one he trusts to have his back at all times. She's also the one who has no fear of Mal. I suspect, though, that she's only around out of loyalty. Ok, that's not true. I think she's also about the adventure and the maintaining some semblance of freedom away from the Alliance. In space, they can be as free as they can from the Alliance control. It's what she shares with Mal.
Wash - He's just along for the ride. He's there for Zoey and that's it. For him it's about his love for her and wanting to be with her than anything else. For that reason, he's loyalty to Mal is only second to his loyalty for Zoey.
Jayne - He's a man serving his own interests. Not sure if it's greed or just selfish desires. Yet, he cares about Kaylee (that moment rockin' back and forth while Simon works on her).
Kaylee - The Kind Heart of the group. She takes such pleasure in fruit. Seems to indicate she'll take pleasure in the little joys of life. She loves 'her' ship. The pride she had when she told Book it was the best ship. So different from the other man trying to get him. BTW, her nature is *why* everyone loves her and her getting shot changes everything happening on the ship.
Inara - (I'll save this one for the next half)
Book - A Shepard.. not in a rush. If it's the journey that matters, what kinda of ride is he looking for?
Simon - (I'll save this one for the next half)
River - (I'll save this one for the next half)
- Mal doesn't hold grudges.. Living for the mo' I'd say. He's not afraid to cut losses and move along. "Anyone gets nosy just, you know, shoot 'em. Politely."
Chiming in in no particular order: [/li][li]Who doesn't love the dinosaur war? The best part is if you watch AT's audition reel, you'll see he performed that scene in "Serenity" almost exactly as he did when he auditioned for the role. [/li][li]Interesting that the ship Book turned down was named Brutus, given the betrayal yet to come on the ship he chooses. Okay, maybe it's not all that interesting. [/li][li]Great thoughts on the characters and how they're being established, particularly your observations about Kaylee. Naturally I have all kinds of other genius insights, but I'm saving those for the review.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 21, 2004 19:11:24 GMT -5
I'd say that Dobson, the Alliance agent, is the least successful thing in part one: he's an unadorned baddie, with no complexifying although we see him up close and personal, as it were--unlike the Reavers. However, so much is going on in this (half)ep, with so many characters at odds and to keep track of, maybe it was felt we needed a really simple baddie to make the sides sort out so we could follow them. Through Dobson's shooting Kaylee, we realize that just about everybody (except Jayne, perhaps) is genuinely fond of Kaylee, and Mal calls her "little sister" in Chinese. We find that Jayne is out for himself and corruptable for the right price. We find out Book knows something about medicine and that Simon is extremely protective of his sister. So Dobson *does* serve to sort the sides out...I'm just not sure that's enough to justify the character. He's too much a function of the plot, not enough of a character in his own right (as the Master is, for instance). Any thoughts about Dobson? But we see how Jayne feels about Kaylee in little ways. The first two could be taken other ways, but the final one is proof that he likes Kaylee too. First, at dinner, just before he makes his crude comment and gets bounced by the captain, he shoots this glance at Kaylee when she's making up to the doc and you can see he doesn't like it. But that could be for any reason. Then, when Dobson shoots Kaylee, he wants to kill Dobson. But he could just want to kill any Allience agent. Ahh! But then when everyone is waiting to see how Kaylee is, he's lurking outside the window of the operating room, wanting to know how she's doing but without anyone seeing that he cares. So I think we're definitely meant to see that everyone loves/likes Kaylee. Dobson, now...well - I think he's a combo of weasel and opportunist but also a whole bunch of scared. The only reason he jumps the gun and then panics and shoots Kaylee is he's in over his head and he knows it. Lola
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Post by Lola m on Jun 21, 2004 19:19:03 GMT -5
I think in some parts of southern China dogs were a food item, and may still be- this is the same parrt of China where tree civets were sold as food up until the SARS virus. It's true, however, that "dog-eater" is one of those species-wide human insults, so the feeling that it is a canard instead is well founded. I'd be discussing but I watched Serenity all in a chunk and didn't take notes so I'm out of sequence with events. However, what struck me most strongly from the in-port scenes was Kaylee's approach to Book: she noticies him, and analyses his behavior, and makes a connection with him based on what she sees which turns out, over all, to be a good thing for the Serenity, passengers and crew. But who brings the bad guy aboard? Julia, not a lot of abservational powers after the party And she's so confident with him - but also so straightforward and honest. I loved the way she delivers her very first line to him: "You're gonna come with us." I was noticing how well each of these first scenes are doing such a fab job of establishing each character as they are introduced and then the relationships between them. Because in the opening bits with Book we also get a nice mini-snapshot of him. He's looking around the spaceport with wonder and delight, but he's also no fool to be conned into getting on any old ship. Then in just a few senteces between him and Kaylee we learn that he is a spiritual man who's been away from the world but interested in seeing it again. But we're also given a hint that he has had a different life before - knowing about this type of ship and how it handles. This whole ep is just such a brilliant example of the way to introduce a fairly large cast of characters quickly and making you feel like you've gotten a good start on knowing who they are, but without resorting to stereotyping or being obnoxiously obvious. Lola
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Post by Barb on Jun 21, 2004 19:22:17 GMT -5
Wow. Can I just say...wow? Kaylee is really sweet....almost too good to be true, worrying about the fighting while she's bleeding. Also, ideal choice for snagging passengers. Inara....why is she there when Mal treats her like that? At least she doesn't take it TOO much, and gives it back. Mal....I think the name almost says it all. There must be some deep water there. Still waiting for tight pants. Zoey and Wash....nice to see a husband follow the wife in her career for a change, but realistic that he's a bit chafed by her loyalty to Mal. Book....I wouldn't mind hearing a sermon by him, I think. Simon....I don't know yet. Jayne....woah......okay, he's disagreeable, selfish,and irritating at times. And he's hot. Did I miss anyone? I downloaded a version that wasn't the best quality, but I think I got the gist of it.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 21, 2004 19:36:03 GMT -5
Wow. Can I just say...wow? Kaylee is really sweet....almost too good to be true, worrying about the fighting while she's bleeding. Also, ideal choice for snagging passengers. Inara....why is she there when Mal treats her like that? At least she doesn't take it TOO much, and gives it back. Mal....I think the name almost says it all. There must be some deep water there. Still waiting for tight pants. Zoey and Wash....nice to see a husband follow the wife in her career for a change, but realistic that he's a bit chafed by her loyalty to Mal. Book....I wouldn't mind hearing a sermon by him, I think. Simon....I don't know yet. Jayne....woah......okay, he's disagreeable, selfish,and irritating at times. And he's hot. Did I miss anyone? I downloaded a version that wasn't the best quality, but I think I got the gist of it. I find it interesting what Inara says to Book later, though. And I think that's true. Lola
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