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Post by Queen E on Jun 21, 2004 19:42:41 GMT -5
But we see how Jayne feels about Kaylee in little ways. The first two could be taken other ways, but the final one is proof that he likes Kaylee too. First, at dinner, just before he makes his crude comment and gets bounced by the captain, he shoots this glance at Kaylee when she's making up to the doc and you can see he doesn't like it. But that could be for any reason. Then, when Dobson shoots Kaylee, he wants to kill Dobson. But he could just want to kill any Allience agent. Ahh! But then when everyone is waiting to see how Kaylee is, he's lurking outside the window of the operating room, wanting to know how she's doing but without anyone seeing that he cares. So I think we're definitely meant to see that everyone loves/likes Kaylee. Dobson, now...well - I think he's a combo of weasel and opportunist but also a whole bunch of scared. The only reason he jumps the gun and then panics and shoots Kaylee is he's in over his head and he knows it. Lola And really, in the Jossverse, that is his character. First, as Ken, in the episode Anne, seemingly nice guy, a little square. Evil. Then as Harry's fiance in the episode The Bachelor party, seemingly nice guy, a little square, tries to eat Doyle. Finally, in this episode, seemingly nice guy, a little square, frigging shoots Kaylee. He's rather like a pre-Knox Knox.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 21, 2004 19:47:59 GMT -5
And really, in the Jossverse, that is his character. First, as Ken, in the episode Anne, seemingly nice guy, a little square. Evil. Then as Harry's fiance in the episode The Bachelor party, seemingly nice guy, a little square, tries to eat Doyle. Finally, in this episode, seemingly nice guy, a little square, frigging shoots Kaylee. He's rather like a pre-Knox Knox. Ooooh. I like that. He really is a pre-Knox Knox. And he's also one of the few that are consistantly bad guys from show to show. So that's also kinda pre-Knox Knox. Lola And can I thank you for quoting my favorite line from the whole dinosaur mini-play? "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!" Just love that line. It's so Joss.
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Jun 21, 2004 19:48:44 GMT -5
And she's so confident with him - but also so straightforward and honest. I loved the way she delivers her very first line to him: "You're gonna come with us." I was noticing how well each of these first scenes are doing such a fab job of establishing each character as they are introduced and then the relationships between them. Because in the opening bits with Book we also get a nice mini-snapshot of him. He's looking around the spaceport with wonder and delight, but he's also no fool to be conned into getting on any old ship. Then in just a few senteces between him and Kaylee we learn that he is a spiritual man who's been away from the world but interested in seeing it again. But we're also given a hint that he has had a different life before - knowing about this type of ship and how it handles. This whole ep is just such a brilliant example of the way to introduce a fairly large cast of characters quickly and making you feel like you've gotten a good start on knowing who they are, but without resorting to stereotyping or being obnoxiously obvious. Lola What I love about "Serenity", and what I think the suits at Fox couldn't get, is the way it unfolds in a completely relaxed and organic fashion, with the battle scenes giving us pretty much all we'll need to know about Mal and Zoe and their relationship, and the others being folded in like the ingrediants in a souffle. The whole episode is pretty much like the first scene in Inara's module, where she goes from lady of the evening to pilot without changing her manner or her clothes. Julia, busily cooking until now
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Post by Lola m on Jun 21, 2004 19:54:00 GMT -5
What I love about "Serenity", and what I think the suits at Fox couldn't get, is the way it unfolds in a completely relaxed and organic fashion, with the battle scenes giving us pretty much all we'll need to know about Mal and Zoe and their relationship, and the others being folded in like the ingrediants in a souffle. The whole episode is pretty much like the first scene in Inara's module, where she goes from lady of the evening to pilot without changing her manner or her clothes. Julia, busily cooking until now Yes! I was making notes about how each scene is introducing another character or two and kind of checking to see what was reveled about each in that brief introduction. And I was amazed at the depth there, peeled back like an onion. I sort of feel that, of all 3 shows, Firefly is probably the best showcase for Joss' writing talent. Lola
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Post by Queen E on Jun 21, 2004 19:57:51 GMT -5
If you guys have a chance, watch the scenes deleted from the pilot; they provide a wealth of information about the Battle of Serenity Valley. Honestly, you can see Mal's faith dying as he watches the Alliance ships land, but to find out what happened afterwards, you can see how difficult it would be for him to believe in anything again.
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Post by Queen E on Jun 21, 2004 19:59:39 GMT -5
Ooooh. I like that. He really is a pre-Knox Knox. And he's also one of the few that are consistantly bad guys from show to show. So that's also kinda pre-Knox Knox. Lola And can I thank you for quoting my favorite line from the whole dinosaur mini-play? "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!" Just love that line. It's so Joss. It really is, especially in the way it really sets up the dynamic of betrayal that will run through this episode (and the other extant episodes) but hides it under a layer of funny. Joss is a friggin' genius.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 21, 2004 20:07:40 GMT -5
[/li][li] "We'll own this valley no matter what." "We are just too pretty for God to let us die." [/li][li] I love the 'quiet' of space. <snip> [/list][/quote] Had to eetah these. 'Cuz I just love Mal's speech to the young kid - you just understand so much of him there. That amazing slo-mo shot of Mal and the kid looking at all the ship coming down on them, the explosions and then the kid getting shot and going down and Mal is still just staring at the huge firepower coming right at them. But I particularly love how the scenes are cut. To go right from the battle scene, with all the noise, bright light, and fast motion to the quiet, dark, slow/smooth weightless movement in space. And we've had the establishing scenes with Mal and Zoe, that show us their history and told us all we need to know about their relationship. Then in this next scene we add Jayne, Wash and Kaylee. The rest of the crew and each with just a hint of who they are. Jayne as muscle, not a lot of extraneous talking, action guy who just wants to get the job done. Wash with the humor and fun, but also great piloting and ability when the pressure is on. And Kaylee - confidently moving around in her ship, in charge and knows what she's doing with the mechanics, and that sweet little "OK, now I can't get down" matter of factness when she gets the lights out. Then we meet the Alliance. Bloated and bland, large and impersonal, feared by our guys but also rather easily fooled by them. And there ya go. Boom, boom, boom. In really just 2 main scenes, in the first 10 minutes or so of the show, we've met our main crew and the enemy they face. Like I said before; amazing writing. Lola Then within the hour we've seen more of the 6th character - Serenity. And we meet and get the basics on Inara, Book, Simon and River. Plus we see enough of the planet and spaceport to start to imagine what this universe is like. Amazing.
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Post by Rachael on Jun 21, 2004 20:08:04 GMT -5
Ooooh. I like that. He really is a pre-Knox Knox. And he's also one of the few that are consistantly bad guys from show to show. So that's also kinda pre-Knox Knox. Lola And can I thank you for quoting my favorite line from the whole dinosaur mini-play? "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!" Just love that line. It's so Joss. Also, not a throwaway (are they ever?) - there's a lot to do with trust and betrayal in this episode, and the dinosaur battle just shows it up again - everything from the reinforcements at Serenity not coming to the Alliance mole on the ship is about sudden (and inevitable?) betrayals.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jun 21, 2004 20:08:16 GMT -5
Wow. Can I just say...wow? Kaylee is really sweet....almost too good to be true, worrying about the fighting while she's bleeding. Also, ideal choice for snagging passengers. Inara....why is she there when Mal treats her like that? At least she doesn't take it TOO much, and gives it back. Mal....I think the name almost says it all. There must be some deep water there. Still waiting for tight pants. Zoey and Wash....nice to see a husband follow the wife in her career for a change, but realistic that he's a bit chafed by her loyalty to Mal. Book....I wouldn't mind hearing a sermon by him, I think. Simon....I don't know yet. Jayne....woah......okay, he's disagreeable, selfish,and irritating at times. And he's hot. Did I miss anyone? I downloaded a version that wasn't the best quality, but I think I got the gist of it. Sounds like you did! Maybe someone did this, but if you would give us the link to the download site, we could put it in the opening thread so folk could use it if they don't have the DVDs.
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Post by Barb on Jun 21, 2004 20:11:09 GMT -5
Sounds like you did! Maybe someone did this, but if you would give us the link to the download site, we could put it in the opening thread so folk could use it if they don't have the DVDs. Absolutely. versaphile.com/download/firefly.htmlQuality isn't the best....but still viewable, mostly.
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Post by Rachael on Jun 21, 2004 20:12:45 GMT -5
Okay. Not a lot of deep thoughts yet ('cause, well, first episode and all), but I had a couple of little observations of things I thought were cool: "Cry baby cry - make your mother sigh" - the classics never really die, do they? There are flowers and ivy painted on the mess walls. Who do you suppose did that? (My money's on Kaylee.) Less fun, but my only criticism, really - Badger has always seemed more of a caricature than a character, to me. Although maybe he's supposed to be.
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Jun 21, 2004 20:19:07 GMT -5
If you guys have a chance, watch the scenes deleted from the pilot; they provide a wealth of information about the Battle of Serenity Valley. Honestly, you can see Mal's faith dying as he watches the Alliance ships land, but to find out what happened afterwards, you can see how difficult it would be for him to believe in anything again. So, where can these scenes be seen? Julia, who figures if they were on the DVD Anna would have told me about them, as she's the one whose got the commentary tracks memorized
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Jun 21, 2004 20:22:49 GMT -5
Okay. Not a lot of deep thoughts yet ('cause, well, first episode and all), but I had a couple of little observations of things I thought were cool: "Cry baby cry - make your mother sigh" - the classics never really die, do they? There are flowers and ivy painted on the mess walls. Who do you suppose did that? (My money's on Kaylee.) Less fun, but my only criticism, really - Badger has always seemed more of a caricature than a character, to me. Although maybe he's supposed to be. You know, that's maybe the weakest part of the series- the villans all seem to be out of the standard boxes, more or less, characters I recognize from Gunsmoke or Bond movies or Trek. Mrs. Reynolds excepted of course. Julia, very glad this Monday is nearly over
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Post by Lola m on Jun 21, 2004 20:26:11 GMT -5
Okay. Not a lot of deep thoughts yet ('cause, well, first episode and all), but I had a couple of little observations of things I thought were cool: "Cry baby cry - make your mother sigh" - the classics never really die, do they? There are flowers and ivy painted on the mess walls. Who do you suppose did that? (My money's on Kaylee.) Less fun, but my only criticism, really - Badger has always seemed more of a caricature than a character, to me. Although maybe he's supposed to be. Oh, yeah. He's supposed to be over the top, I'm sure. But I also like how they make him not as dumb as you first think. ('Cuz he couldn't be that dumb and run his little criminal gang.) I mean, he understands that Mal looks down on him. And he gets to be the guy who gets to state two other really rather amazing bits of understanding. First when he's talking about Mal and calls him "a man of honor in a den of thieves". Then when they are leaving and Mal says "Wheel never stops turning, Badger." Badger replies with a truly great line. "That only matters to the people on the rim." Such a nice metaphor, with the inner planets exploiting the outer rim ones and all. And it's clever Badger who says it. I wouldn't say Badger is smart, but clever yes. Deviously, sneakily clever. So I don't see him as truly one dimensional. Just ... over the top. Lola
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Post by Queen E on Jun 21, 2004 21:09:59 GMT -5
Also, not a throwaway (are they ever?) - there's a lot to do with trust and betrayal in this episode, and the dinosaur battle just shows it up again - everything from the reinforcements at Serenity not coming to the Alliance mole on the ship is about sudden (and inevitable?) betrayals. And again with the brain-sharing (see above).
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