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Post by Queen E on Jun 22, 2004 11:46:37 GMT -5
There is ominousness in the relationship between Wash and Zoe (durnit, needs an umlaut) even in the first episode.. due to the fact that Zoe is along with Mal because she was at loose ends after the battle.. and kept the world she knew, even if it was going through drastic changes. Really? Difficulties, to be sure, but I don't get the feeling of ominous... ...and why not difficulties, if for no other reason than they are together constantly, all of them, for long stretches of time. Little things will get on their nerves, but the fact that Wash and Zoe are such unconventional choices for the other seems to indicate some level of longevity will be in the offing for their relationship.
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Post by Rachael on Jun 22, 2004 14:40:42 GMT -5
I always watch for scene cuts - 'cuz I think that they are often used to point us toward interesting parallels in the Jossverse. Things we are meant to compare. At one point, after Mal was talking to, I think, Wash about meeting back up with Inara, Mal walks away muttering: "somebody on this boat has to make an honest living". Then we cut right to Inara in bed with a client. So I'm wondering. Is this just a cool visual? Is it only there to help us realize that the job of a complanion is an honorable/impressive one? Or is it also supposed to point out to us that this is really Mal's opinion of Inara? Regardless of the way he snipes at and insults her at other times. Lola I think that it's meant to show us that her profession is honorable - an honest living. And also that Mal, for all his posturing and acting like his moral standards exclude prostitution as a decent profession, really does think highly of her, and that his blustering is more about covering an attraction that he doesn't want to feel than it is about his real opinions.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 22, 2004 14:55:09 GMT -5
Y'all ROCK! You have no idea how much I wanted this, originally, when I was watching Firefly.. and I didn't even know I wanted it!! General comments: Rae-Rae: Mal is always gonna be a soldier: a very, VERY unconventional one, but hey, rebels often are, no? And (not directly adressed: will go back later and reply at length) There is ominousness in the relationship between Wash and Zoe (durnit, needs an umlaut) even in the first episode.. due to the fact that Zoe is along with Mal because she was at loose ends after the battle.. and kept the world she knew, even if it was going through drastic changes. I soo love the speech habits.. "Didn't Patience shoot you?" "Everyone's makin' a fuss..." The series itself is meant to recall America after the War Between the States: expat confederates running to the fringes, some still wanted, some wanting to forget: primitive life that shaped its own rules. The imagery captures it beautifully: the attire, everything, just flows so organically from that premise that Mal highlights that they just dump the settlers down on a rock. A tractor may be a tool you could use to plow more land than a horse, in a day, but tractors don't do so well making little baby tractors(good lord, imagine, if you will, the "Heimlich, with stripes!" if they did... huh. ). Beautiful way to tell human stories of ambiguity and compromise. I so hope that Serenity revives this show.. And I LOVE this idea, when put into practice! some kinks, but they will get worked out, no doubt. -Matthew, who will try to post more on this later, and is grateful to y'all for giving him the excuse and the motivation to watch Firefly as if for the first time. Anybody read Resnick's Santiago? I know what you mean about not even knowing you missed this. Getting the chance to really really discuss Firefly is one of the things I was most excited about for the summer plans. 'Cuz just being here on the board discussing AtS eps and what not was making me realize what I missed with Firefly first time around, ya know? Plus, I really wanted us to get the experience of seeing it the way it should have been. Love the speech patterns and language that was evolving for the show. Yes, everyone first notices the mix of frontier English and Mandarin, but I also love all the new little slang words that folks use and no one explains, you just figure out from context. Like "shiny". The frontier setting - the mix of high tech and low/no tech. It's just so interesting to me. All the little details, like the flyer that Badger holds up that has moving text on it. While at the same time outside folks are getting around on horseback and trading spaceship rides for produce. I too hope the movie revives the show. 'Cuz I really want to see all the stories that this world holds for us and we need a weekly TV series to do that. Lola Never read Resnick's Santiago. What's it about?
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Post by KMInfinity on Jun 22, 2004 15:11:46 GMT -5
I'm one of those who cheated and watched parts 1 & 2 together... Overall, I'm just really impressed. I'm trying to avoid allowing overall series comments intrude...it's hard... I've been a science fiction fan for 40 years, and even tho I loved Star Trek and Star Wars, I didn't think they really ever got things quite right. I think Firefly really resonates with so much in the SF literature. Randomly - Inara, and her profession as Companion. Clearly an honorable profession: everyone respects her*, affectionately calls her Ambassador, Kaylee teases her on her return about whether or not any of her clients have begged her to marry them, implying that marrying a Companion is a worthy objective. It reminds me of Heinlein's ideas concerning the profession of hetaerae. In fact, with the anti-government slant and Inara, I was pleasantly reminded of Time Enough for Love.*except Mal? The issue of faith/what to believe in is clearly set up as a major theme for the series. I too loved that space was s-i-l-e-n-t. I really felt sucked into the scenes outside of the ship in space. Usually I'm not. I especially loved the mix of high tech/low tech. Quite a few SF novels have explored the premise that a spacefaring culture may run the gamut of various types of cultures and levels of tech, but most of the feature films and TV series haven't shown this successfully, imo. The classic bar scene in Star Wars did it well, but even there, it was played more for laughs. More on this idea as the series develops. There are absolutely no weak spots in the cast (so far.) Everyone's fantastic. They are all introduced smoothly, and there's clearly bonds already developed. The regulars already feel like a blended family. As far as Dobson goes, I agree he's kind of run-of-the-mill, but I also agree that a more complex baddie might interfere with getting to know the regs. Plus, I rather think the true villain of the series isn't any particlar person per se, but rather the old "man (sic) verses nature" conflict. It's more the idea that it's a harsh galaxy out there, a tough place to survive. Throw in the conflict with the Alliance-an impersonal military/bureaucratic organization-and I think the focus is not so much on "bad guys" as on structures of evil or indifference. Shades of W&H. Having watched Welcome to the Hellmouth immediately afterwards, I was impressed with how well Joss manages a large cast, introducing them and getting the viewer comfortable with them at once.
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Post by Queen E on Jun 22, 2004 19:37:19 GMT -5
I know what you mean about not even knowing you missed this. Getting the chance to really really discuss Firefly is one of the things I was most excited about for the summer plans. 'Cuz just being here on the board discussing AtS eps and what not was making me realize what I missed with Firefly first time around, ya know? Plus, I really wanted us to get the experience of seeing it the way it should have been. Love the speech patterns and language that was evolving for the show. Yes, everyone first notices the mix of frontier English and Mandarin, but I also love all the new little slang words that folks use and no one explains, you just figure out from context. Like "shiny". The frontier setting - the mix of high tech and low/no tech. It's just so interesting to me. All the little details, like the flyer that Badger holds up that has moving text on it. While at the same time outside folks are getting around on horseback and trading spaceship rides for produce. I too hope the movie revives the show. 'Cuz I really want to see all the stories that this world holds for us and we need a weekly TV series to do that. Lola Never read Resnick's Santiago. What's it about? Here's the deal with the revivification of the series; they cannot, due to the contract with Fox, bring Firefly back to television for 5 years after cancellation. Which means no Firefly back on the telly until 2007, most likely. But, hey, depending on the success of the film, it is definitely a possibility, just, you know, not soon.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 23, 2004 5:45:22 GMT -5
Here's the deal with the revivification of the series; they cannot, due to the contract with Fox, bring Firefly back to television for 5 years after cancellation. Which means no Firefly back on the telly until 2007, most likely. But, hey, depending on the success of the film, it is definitely a possibility, just, you know, not soon. Well, heck, 2007 isn't that far away! (And doesn't that just sound ... wow.) So, 2005 for film to catch hold and make a huge splash and be considered better and more important as a film than Star Wars. Oh, and for several Spike films (made with various Buffyverse alumni) to be made - Joss needing to get the first 3 in the can quickly before JM gets too busy with his own masterful filming of the scottish play. 2006 for the international outcry to demand more, more, more Firefly now! Joss begins work on the second Serenity-based film. He also begins fielding multiple offers for a return to series TV, settling on: planning the ultimate return of Firefly in 2007 on NBC (now frantically looking for some way to rebuild their Thursday night empire); and semi-partnering with Tim M as Wonderfalls is returned in all it's glory and is showcased as FX's new hit show. Of course, the Spike movies are now a huge hit and so the second wave of those begin as JM's schedule permits. 'Course, with the amazing advance word on his film, Joss is delighted that James can find the time. 2007 Firefly returns, more Spike movies air - including the moving and stunning final one in which the unspoken til now, but hot hot hot subtext between Spike and Xander is finally consumated on screen in a love scene that breaks taboos and earns Joss his third Emmy. (Hey! I'm a slasher and a Spander addict and it's my fantasy! I gotta get something, people. Oh - and the first Emmy was for the first Spike movie, a glorious, yet tragic reunion of Spike and Buffy that ends with them separated again, yet healed and better for the journey. Second Emmy was for the new Firefly eps - actually awarded for the entire season, for the first time in Emmy history.) 2008 - JM's film makes him a critic's darling for it's quality and daring as well as a ton of money at the box office. Joss' film and comic work is lauded world wide as some of the most brilliant stuff created in this or the previous century and his return to series TV is credited with creating the quality dramatic revolution that turned back the tide of crappy reality programming. Viewers everywhere bow down at his feet and he later goes on to win a Nobel prize for bringing peace to the troubled Middle East. See - the timeline works out just fine. Lola Can I just say how much I love the final shot in the Firefly opening credits? The ship shooting over the running horses....pretty. I know that was one that Joss loved too and was proud of and I can see why! Just demonstrates the feel of the show in one fell swoop, doesn't it?
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Post by Queen E on Jun 23, 2004 8:17:39 GMT -5
Well, heck, 2007 isn't that far away! (And doesn't that just sound ... wow.) So, 2005 for film to catch hold and make a huge splash and be considered better and more important as a film than Star Wars. Oh, and for several Spike films (made with various Buffyverse alumni) to be made - Joss needing to get the first 3 in the can quickly before JM gets too busy with his own masterful filming of the scottish play. 2006 for the international outcry to demand more, more, more Firefly now! Joss begins work on the second Serenity-based film. He also begins fielding multiple offers for a return to series TV, settling on: planning the ultimate return of Firefly in 2007 on NBC (now frantically looking for some way to rebuild their Thursday night empire); and semi-partnering with Tim M as Wonderfalls is returned in all it's glory and is showcased as FX's new hit show. Of course, the Spike movies are now a huge hit and so the second wave of those begin as JM's schedule permits. 'Course, with the amazing advance word on his film, Joss is delighted that James can find the time. 2007 Firefly returns, more Spike movies air - including the moving and stunning final one in which the unspoken til now, but hot hot hot subtext between Spike and Xander is finally consumated on screen in a love scene that breaks taboos and earns Joss his third Emmy. (Hey! I'm a slasher and a Spander addict and it's my fantasy! I gotta get something, people. Oh - and the first Emmy was for the first Spike movie, a glorious, yet tragic reunion of Spike and Buffy that ends with them separated again, yet healed and better for the journey. Second Emmy was for the new Firefly eps - actually awarded for the entire season, for the first time in Emmy history.) 2008 - JM's film makes him a critic's darling for it's quality and daring as well as a ton of money at the box office. Joss' film and comic work is lauded world wide as some of the most brilliant stuff created in this or the previous century and his return to series TV is credited with creating the quality dramatic revolution that turned back the tide of crappy reality programming. Viewers everywhere bow down at his feet and he later goes on to win a Nobel prize for bringing peace to the troubled Middle East. See - the timeline works out just fine. Lola Can I just say how much I love the final shot in the Firefly opening credits? The ship shooting over the running horses....pretty. I know that was one that Joss loved too and was proud of and I can see why!
Just demonstrates the feel of the show in one fell swoop, doesn't it?
Oh my god. I wish there was a way Joss could see this.
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Post by Karen on Jun 23, 2004 10:14:07 GMT -5
Hi all! Great discussion so far. Although I find it is hard to discuss the episode without referring to part 2. (And let me tell you, it was hard to stop watching at "Huh." Rat-bastard Joss.) So, for something a little different ... I wanted to have the opening theme song in this thread for reference, since I think it is relevant to any discussion about Captain Tight-pants. Also: Joss wrote it, so it can be considered as significant as any given line of dialog. The man does love his layers. Take my love, take my land, Take me where I cannot stand. I don’t care, I’m still free. You can’t take the sky from me. Take me out to the black, Tell them I ain’t comin’ back. Burn the land and boil the sea. You can’t take the sky from me. There’s no place I can be Since I found Serenity. But you can’t take the sky from me . . . Speculation: To me, a sky implies being planet-bound. If you are actually in space, wouldn’t that be - space? I think Joss does distinguish the two, because the phrase “take me out to the black” implies the emptiness of space to me, as opposed to the sky. So is the whole thing a conflicted longing for a planet-bound home? The final (unfinished) verse seems to imply that. Serenity is the name of both the ship and the battle in which Mal lost his faith and himself. Interpretation: he can’t find a true home because of the battle and the constantly moving ship, but … he still has his memory or ideal of home. Thoughts? Linda, who hasn't caught up in the main thread, but just wanted to show her support of the weekly watchings. Great insights, everyone! I am so glad that we're discussing "Firefly". I just wish I had more time this week to join in. Linda - love your thoughts on the the theme song. Whenever I use the "you can't take the sky from me" line, I always think of it as the sky being who the person is inside (their spirit). No matter what hardships or hand he or she is dealt, that hope or faith in himself is still there (even if faith in God may be wavering). It may be a little battered and bruised, but it's still there. I think that "home" -whether earthbound or spaceship bound is part of that hope or sense of, I don't know, feeling of who you are, is important. I haven't thought this out thoroughly - but, hey - we got 12 more episodes, right? I would parallel Mal's experience in the war with what happened to the American Indians when they were pushed out of their homes. They still fought to keep their sense of identity (and spirit - or maybe soul). That spirit is so important. Lola - yay on your timeline for the future of Serenity/Firefly. I think it will come to pass. And also agree with all of you who absolutely love the frontier and gritty terrestial worlds along side the silence and aloneness of space. And, I've said it before, Serenity is my favorite character. Ok - got to run, no time to proofread, etc, and this probably sounds like a bunch of mush, but had to spit it out.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 23, 2004 12:54:03 GMT -5
So, I’ve been thinking some more about how one of the main goals of a first ep is to introduce you to each of the characters, show how they interact and reveal the world of they live in. So for the fun of it (I have an odd idea of fun ) I decided to look at a couple of scenes just with an eye for: what were the goals for this scene? What did it tell us about these people and the world around them? The Scene with BadgerWe learn that Mal, Zoe and Jayne are the ones who are the public face of the crew. We learn that Zoe backs up Mal in public even when she doesn’t completely agree with him. We learn that Jayne is quick to anger but that he will obey Mal. We learn that Mal is a man of honor who is good at controlling his emotions. The Scene Where Inara Comes AboardWe learn that Kaylee likes and admires Inara, Inara likes and is herself with Kaylee – they are true friends. We learn that Mal and Inara have a surface hostility that they are used to and that is probably hiding a different relationship than a causal observer would see at first. We learn that both Mal and Inara share an initial distrust and wariness of outsiders, though they display this differently. Lola Huh.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 23, 2004 12:57:57 GMT -5
Great insights, everyone! I am so glad that we're discussing "Firefly". I just wish I had more time this week to join in. Linda - love your thoughts on the the theme song. Whenever I use the "you can't take the sky from me" line, I always think of it as the sky being who the person is inside (their spirit). No matter what hardships or hand he or she is dealt, that hope or faith in himself is still there (even if faith in God may be wavering). It may be a little battered and bruised, but it's still there. I think that "home" -whether earthbound or spaceship bound is part of that hope or sense of, I don't know, feeling of who you are, is important. I haven't thought this out thoroughly - but, hey - we got 12 more episodes, right? I would parallel Mal's experience in the war with what happened to the American Indians when they were pushed out of their homes. They still fought to keep their sense of identity (and spirit - or maybe soul). That spirit is so important. Lola - yay on your timeline for the future of Serenity/Firefly. I think it will come to pass. And also agree with all of you who absolutely love the frontier and gritty terrestial worlds along side the silence and aloneness of space. And, I've said it before, Serenity is my favorite character. Ok - got to run, no time to proofread, etc, and this probably sounds like a bunch of mush, but had to spit it out. I'd agree that a larger meaning for the "sky" in the song is what you have inside - yourself, your thoughts and feelings and beliefs. That idea that you can imprision someone or take away all they have, etc. etc., but you can't ever take away what is inside them. I think it works on several levels. Can't take away my spirit. Can't take away my freedom to roam in space. Can't take away my hopes. Lola
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Post by raenstorm on Jun 28, 2004 17:17:39 GMT -5
I think this line will always define Mal for me... "If I ever kill you, you'll be awake. You'll be facing me and you'll be armed."
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Post by Queen E on Jun 28, 2004 18:41:22 GMT -5
Serenity itself, by the end of the episode, has really developed into a microcosm of society.
Mal is the father, captaining the ship, taking responsibility for the safety and care of his crew/family. Inara is the mother, providing emotional support and nurturing to various members of the family and representing reason and conscience. She also is the only one engaged in steady work; she is the provider. Simon is both doctor and son. River is both artist and daughter. Kaylee is both mechanic (fixes Serenity, fixes relationships between people; she makes Serenity as ship and Serenity as a society work) and daughter. Wash, as pilot, keeps them on course, with his relative calm and sense of humor. Book provides a link to spirituality and religion, and serves as a moral conscience, conflicted as he may be. Zoe is justice and support; the law in the best sense of the word. Jayne is the criminal element and an instrument of uncertainty and possible chaos.
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Post by Sara on Jun 28, 2004 18:47:21 GMT -5
If anyone's interested in a bit of trivia, I learned that during the Cold War Soviet submarine captains employed an interesting tactic for keeping the US subs off-guard. Apparently submarine captains enjoyed playing games with each other, one of which was for a US captain to follow close behind a Soviet sub in their sonar's blind spot. So Soviet captains would make abrupt and radical turns, meaning the blind spot shifted to waters they'd just swept and bringing the old blind spot into sonar range. The name given to this quick-turn maneuver? The Ivan.
Gotta love research...
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Post by Lola m on Jun 28, 2004 19:06:23 GMT -5
If anyone's interested in a bit of trivia, I learned that during the Cold War Soviet submarine captains employed an interesting tactic for keeping the US subs off-guard. Apparently submarine captains enjoyed playing games with each other, one of which was for a US captain to follow close behind a Soviet sub in their sonar's blind spot. So Soviet captains would make abrupt and radical turns, meaning the blind spot shifted to waters they'd just swept and bringing the old blind spot into sonar range. The name given to this quick-turn maneuver? The Ivan. Gotta love research... Also gotta love Joss for making it worth our while to research. Man, I just love the FX for the Reavers's ship. Damn, but that thing looks scary. I mean it looks scary in space and they sure as hell sound hella scary when Zoe is giving her "if we're very very lucky they'll do it in that order" speech. But when you see the Reaver ship coming at them in the planet's atmosphere? Damn, that looks ... scary. Lola
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Post by raenstorm on Jun 28, 2004 19:10:01 GMT -5
Also gotta love Joss for making it worth our while to research. Man, I just love the FX for the Reavers's ship. Damn, but that thing looks scary. I mean it looks scary in space and they sure as hell sound hella scary when Zoe is giving her "if we're very very lucky they'll do it in that order" speech. But when you see the Reaver ship coming at them in the planet's atmosphere? Damn, that looks ... scary. Lola Oh! Oh! Thank you, Lola, for reminding me of what I was going to say earlier. The Reaver ship looked like a shark. I was hearing the Jaws theme playing in my head as they watched the ship pass over them. It reminded me of people who are in the water and get very still and quiet so they don't attrack the shark to them.
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