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Post by Lola m on Jun 28, 2004 19:10:35 GMT -5
I think this line will always define Mal for me... "If I ever kill you, you'll be awake. You'll be facing me and you'll be armed." Always liked those lines. I'm thinking of making a collection of "Mal's Mottos". Like: "There's obstacles in our path. And we're gonna deal with 'em one by one. We'll get through this. We will." And "I do the job. And then I get paid." Lola
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Jun 28, 2004 19:15:48 GMT -5
What I find interesting, thinking back, is who has and who has not revealed WHY they are on Serenity to begin with.
Mal, Zoe and Wash are crew, and their reasons would seem to be open, but we don't know the big why they are in space; their lives before the war have not been made known.
Kaylee may not have any murky or hidden motives; she seems to be deep clear Kaylee all the way down. Can anyone be that good, and that transparent?
Simon and River have the most deadly secrets, and they are the only ones whose reasons have been revealed.
Jayne is, in some ways, Kaylee's opposite: he seems entirely motivated by greed and a delight in doing violence. Why is he involved in what is only a shady operation instead of something more illegal and more profitable?
Book's motives are entirely unknown, and Inara's nearly so. They are the two whose lives have been lived with the tightest set of rules and in the closest association with the political powers; that either of them has chosen to associate with the shady operation on Serenity?
Julia, distracted again
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Post by makd on Jun 28, 2004 19:25:00 GMT -5
I'd say that Dobson, the Alliance agent, is the least successful thing in part one: he's an unadorned baddie, with no complexifying although we see him up close and personal, as it were--unlike the Reavers. However, so much is going on in this (half)ep, with so many characters at odds and to keep track of, maybe it was felt we needed a really simple baddie to make the sides sort out so we could follow them. Through Dobson's shooting Kaylee, we realize that just about everybody (except Jayne, perhaps) is genuinely fond of Kaylee, and Mal calls her "little sister" in Chinese. We find that Jayne is out for himself and corruptable for the right price. We find out Book knows something about medicine and that Simon is extremely protective of his sister. So Dobson *does* serve to sort the sides out...I'm just not sure that's enough to justify the character. He's too much a function of the plot, not enough of a character in his own right (as the Master is, for instance). Any thoughts about Dobson? I've watched the pilot twice, and I think Jayne is attracted to Kaylee. He just doesn't have the social skills to appropriately express it. Dobson is your standard throwaway baddie.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 28, 2004 19:30:06 GMT -5
What I find interesting, thinking back, is who has and who has not revealed WHY they are on Serenity to begin with. Mal, Zoe and Wash are crew, and their reasons would seem to be open, but we don't know the big why they are in space; their lives before the war have not been made known. Kaylee may not have any murky or hidden motives; she seems to be deep clear Kaylee all the way down. Can anyone be that good, and that transparent? Simon and River have the most deadly secrets, and they are the only ones whose reasons have been revealed. Jayne is, in some ways, Kaylee's opposite: he seems entirely motivated by greed and a delight in doing violence. Why is he involved in what is only a shady operation instead of something more illegal and more profitable? Book's motives are entirely unknown, and Inara's nearly so. They are the two whose lives have been lived with the tightest set of rules and in the closest association with the political powers; that either of them has chosen to associate with the shady operation on Serenity? Julia, distracted again Very interesting - the two with the most to hide, apparently, are the most exposed right from the start, apparently. The person who is the most mysterious to me is Book. He's a "closed book", as it were. We get little hints and intriguing clues, but never enough to really know what his past was and why he is on Serenity now. Makes me really wonder how much was planned to be revealed in the rest of the first season of Firefly and how much would have been slowly peeled away year by year. Lola
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Post by Lola m on Jun 28, 2004 19:37:36 GMT -5
I've watched the pilot twice, and I think Jayne is attracted to Kaylee. He just doesn't have the social skills to appropriately express it. Dobson is your standard throwaway baddie. I tend to think deliberately so. All the mainstream Alliance folks are just so ...beaureucratic-ly banal and evilly dull. So mundane. Throws a nice contrast to all the crude frontier rough and tumble types. And will make the really really really bad Alliance baddies - the ones who took River - look even worse by comparison. Plus, it's probably a commentary on large govt/corporate entities. How they can get so "just business, ma'am" about their actions. Lola
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Post by makd on Jun 28, 2004 19:39:12 GMT -5
Not sure that ruins plot stuff; who you can trust, learning to trust, etc, is one of capital T themes in all three of his shows. Since most of us here have viewed Buffy and Angel, there are things we'd go into Firefly expecting: gallows humor, trust issues, father problems, and blended families. Notice, too, how Mal, at the dinner table, is really set up as rather the Dad of them: sitting at the head of the table, watching out for Kaylee, telling Jayne to leave. Right there with you, Scooter. Same themes, and, hey! still not bored, 'cause Joss knows how to do the job. Love the interaction around the dinner table - some with chopsticks, some with western tableware. Mal maintaining order, Kaylee mechanic-ing the food as well as the ship, constant reminders of the primacy of sharing food...and Jayne's jealousy.(teeheehee; The Jossman loves to write dialogue for characters who are really 12 years old.) ....
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Post by Queen E on Jun 28, 2004 19:41:54 GMT -5
I tend to think deliberately so. All the mainstream Alliance folks are just so ...beaureucratic-ly banal and evilly dull. So mundane. Throws a nice contrast to all the crude frontier rough and tumble types. And will make the really really really bad Alliance baddies - the ones who took River - look even worse by comparison. Plus, it's probably a commentary on large govt/corporate entities. How they can get so "just business, ma'am" about their actions. Lola You hit it right on the nail; I read it the same way, especially with it being a soda company. Ahem.
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Post by makd on Jun 28, 2004 19:46:45 GMT -5
Well, heck, 2007 isn't that far away! (And doesn't that just sound ... wow.) So, 2005 for film to catch hold and make a huge splash and be considered better and more important as a film than Star Wars. Oh, and for several Spike films (made with various Buffyverse alumni) to be made - Joss needing to get the first 3 in the can quickly before JM gets too busy with his own masterful filming of the scottish play. 2006 for the international outcry to demand more, more, more Firefly now! Joss begins work on the second Serenity-based film. He also begins fielding multiple offers for a return to series TV, settling on: planning the ultimate return of Firefly in 2007 on NBC (now frantically looking for some way to rebuild their Thursday night empire); and semi-partnering with Tim M as Wonderfalls is returned in all it's glory and is showcased as FX's new hit show. Of course, the Spike movies are now a huge hit and so the second wave of those begin as JM's schedule permits. 'Course, with the amazing advance word on his film, Joss is delighted that James can find the time. 2007 Firefly returns, more Spike movies air - including the moving and stunning final one in which the unspoken til now, but hot hot hot subtext between Spike and Xander is finally consumated on screen in a love scene that breaks taboos and earns Joss his third Emmy. (Hey! I'm a slasher and a Spander addict and it's my fantasy! I gotta get something, people. Oh - and the first Emmy was for the first Spike movie, a glorious, yet tragic reunion of Spike and Buffy that ends with them separated again, yet healed and better for the journey. Second Emmy was for the new Firefly eps - actually awarded for the entire season, for the first time in Emmy history.) 2008 - JM's film makes him a critic's darling for it's quality and daring as well as a ton of money at the box office. Joss' film and comic work is lauded world wide as some of the most brilliant stuff created in this or the previous century and his return to series TV is credited with creating the quality dramatic revolution that turned back the tide of crappy reality programming. Viewers everywhere bow down at his feet and he later goes on to win a Nobel prize for bringing peace to the troubled Middle East. See - the timeline works out just fine. Lola Can I just say how much I love the final shot in the Firefly opening credits? The ship shooting over the running horses....pretty. I know that was one that Joss loved too and was proud of and I can see why! Just demonstrates the feel of the show in one fell swoop, doesn't it? Lola: ya gotta get off those brownies, ok?
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Post by Lola m on Jun 28, 2004 19:48:50 GMT -5
Mal tells Simon:
I realized that Mal is right about Simon. He really doesn't comprehend what he's done as far as threatening the others. He really doesn't understand what the Alliance is doing to folks in the outer rim - routinely. Just how much power they have over folks' lives and how they use that power. Yes, he knows something bad happened with his sister, but he hasn't yet looked beyond that to the larger universe around him.
So that is Simon's journey. Not just to find out what happened to his sister and try to help her, but also to have his eyes opened in general about how privileged his life really was and what that privilege was built on.
Huh.
Lola
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Post by makd on Jun 28, 2004 19:51:07 GMT -5
Very interesting - the two with the most to hide, apparently, are the most exposed right from the start, apparently. The person who is the most mysterious to me is Book. He's a "closed book", as it were. We get little hints and intriguing clues, but never enough to really know what his past was and why he is on Serenity now. Makes me really wonder how much was planned to be revealed in the rest of the first season of Firefly and how much would have been slowly peeled away year by year. Lola ITA and....."you can't tell a book by its cover." There's more to Book than meets the eye.
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Post by makd on Jun 28, 2004 19:52:49 GMT -5
Journey is key, too. They are all on a journey -- destination unknown.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 28, 2004 19:54:20 GMT -5
Lola: ya gotta get off those brownies, ok? Hey! Don't be takin' away my special brownies. **pouts prettily and strolls away singing** la, la, Take my love, take my land, Take me where I cannot stand. I don’t care, I’m still free. You can’t take my brownies from meeeee……la, la, Lola
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Post by Rachael on Jun 28, 2004 20:25:57 GMT -5
I think this line will always define Mal for me... "If I ever kill you, you'll be awake. You'll be facing me and you'll be armed." But. . .did that scene make anyone else think of: "Good night, Westley. Sleep well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning."?
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Post by Lola m on Jun 28, 2004 20:29:40 GMT -5
I liked all the ways they show us that the crew has been together for a while - they know each other. And like Erin said earlier, they are a family.
The joke Mal plays on Simon - telling him that Kaylee is dead. So he'll freak about his patient and also think that the captain is gonna throw him out an airlock. But it's not just Mal that thinks it's funny. Zoe and Wash and Jayne are all cracking up. 'Cuz they're a solid group. It's an in-joke and they're hazing the new guy - which also makes him part of the family, in a warped way.
Course, it's also a good/mean trick on us viewers as well. We're meant to be upset and sad and think Kaylee - the nicest character we've met so far - is dead. But by including us in with both the folks laughing and the one being laughed at, we're made a part of the family too. And the two groups are connected by spoken lines. Simon saying "the man's psychotic" and Wash saying "you are psychotic".
The other scene with Mal, Zoe, Wash and Jayne that struck me was after the captain first talks to Patience. There's just that moment of silence and then Mal says: "I believe that woman's plannin' to shoot me again." You can see right away that this is the exact thing they all figured out; they're all on the same wavelength. - Jayne is Mr. Straightforward as usual "She meant to pay you, she'd'a haggled you down some." - Wash is being the funny guy, all insulted and disgusted that she didn't do a better job of trying to fool them. - Mal is just mad and kicking at stuff but knowing they're gonna have to deal with her anyway. - And Zoe is smart enough to know the whole thing is not a good idea and to want to try something else, but she's not gonna contradict the captain by really pushing it.
So we get to see how they are a tight crew and also get another fine sample of each of their basic characters and how they play off each other.
Then of course there's the whole scene with Kaylee directing Jayne and Book in the engine room. She's just perfect in how she quickly assigns Book to stuff that she sees he can do and I love how she handles Jayne.
Lola
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Post by Rachael on Jun 28, 2004 20:35:12 GMT -5
Okay, then. My semi-braindead observations:
Kaylee is just the most trusting person ever: "He wasn't gonna let me die." And just as I'm thinking, why do you think that? I wasn't sure, she follows it up with, "You just gotta have faith in people." She's got faith in a complete stranger, instantly.
In this episode, we get our first indication of River being more than just really smart. She knows that something's up, instinctively, just before Dobson pops up and grabs her.
Joss really loves this scene: Bad man is using girl as leverage by holding a gun to her head. Good guy shoots man without any hesitation whatsoever. It works, but boy did I flash on Wes and his father. Except, the difference is that Mal just used one bullet. It was business, not personal, while for Wes it was personal on many levels.
When the chips are down, and they're maybe gonna die, Mal lets Inara see how he really feels - but he never tells her.
I was thinking that Wash and his Crazy Ivan was the sexiest thing ever, and apparently Zoe agreed with me. ;D
It's interesting, to me, that the shepherd goes to the whore for spiritual guidance/reassurance. Not sure what it means, right now, but it's interesting, and shows Inara once again to be "mom".
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