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Post by Karen on Jun 29, 2004 20:07:46 GMT -5
Love the hopefulness in the "It's enough" line, too. For me, it was the crew's reactions that really sell the idea that the Reavers are bad, bad, bad news. Mal just freezes; Wash is going "oh God, oh God"; Zoe just closes her eyes and gets to make that stunning speech to Simon. But most of all - it was Jayne going for his guns and Inara quietly getting out something she could use to kill herself. That was just like ... oof. Gotta take this serious, now. And while they are waiting for the ship to go by, Mal is subtly doing more "fatherly/taking care of crew" stuff. Like he distracts Wash from obsessively watching the ship by directing him back to his instruments. Hadn't thought of Mal using the joke on Simon in quite that way. Very clever thought, Karen. It really makes sense, doesn't it? On a small ship like that, with long times between planet fall - it would be really important for Mal to work at diffusing tensions, keeping people from boiling over. Lola Oh, yes. You could see the fear in their faces. Inara and Jayne - knowing what they had to do if the worst came to be - and steely calm about it. And how about Simon thinking that the reavers were fairy tales? He's such a babe in the woods at the start - but firm in his resolve to protect River. The interaction between the characters was golden. Mal is a good leader. He proves later how self-sacrificing he is when he and Wash are captured. And it's always with the joking.
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Post by Queen E on Jun 29, 2004 20:17:18 GMT -5
Oh, yes. You could see the fear in their faces. Inara and Jayne - knowing what they had to do if the worst came to be - and steely calm about it. And how about Simon thinking that the reavers were fairy tales? He's such a babe in the woods at the start - but firm in his resolve to protect River. The interaction between the characters was golden. Mal is a good leader. He proves later how self-sacrificing he is when he and Wash are captured. And it's always with the joking. Simon is such the innocent, it's true; I am blown away, though, by his devotion to his sister and his willingness to give up everything he'd worked for without complaint. That is amazing and so very rare.
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Post by Matthew on Jul 1, 2004 1:45:42 GMT -5
Hey! Don't be takin' away my special brownies. **pouts prettily and strolls away singing** la, la, Take my love, take my land, Take me where I cannot stand. I don’t care, I’m still free. You can’t take my brownies from meeeee……la, la, Lola *Plies Yola with more brownies, if this other stuff is the kind of analysis that will result..*
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Post by Matthew on Jul 1, 2004 1:49:09 GMT -5
I liked all the ways they show us that the crew has been together for a while - they know each other. And like Erin said earlier, they are a family. The joke Mal plays on Simon - telling him that Kaylee is dead. So he'll freak about his patient and also think that the captain is gonna throw him out an airlock. But it's not just Mal that thinks it's funny. Zoe and Wash and Jayne are all cracking up. 'Cuz they're a solid group. It's an in-joke and they're hazing the new guy - which also makes him part of the family, in a warped way. Course, it's also a good/mean trick on us viewers as well. We're meant to be upset and sad and think Kaylee - the nicest character we've met so far - is dead. But by including us in with both the folks laughing and the one being laughed at, we're made a part of the family too. And the two groups are connected by spoken lines. Simon saying "the man's psychotic" and Wash saying "you are psychotic". <SNIP> Lola Watching it now.. oh lord, and the violin cue and the cut to the laughter already going on.. I love this interpretation of it.. stunning.
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Post by Matthew on Jul 1, 2004 1:53:42 GMT -5
Every time I see that scene with Book going to Inara for guidance, I look at the way it is shot and I think it looks like a benediction, or like she is granting him absolution or something. Lit from behind and him seated before her, mimicing the look of kneeling before a priest. Her hands on his head. I also think the scenes between Book and Inara are supposed to make us see the similarities between them. The crazy Ivan? Oh yeah - dead sexy. Wash is just so uncannily cool and collected and capable and all. And that is always sexy. I'm right there with Zoe when she says "I need this man to tear all my clothes off." I love the Wash and Zoe show. Lola Yeah the bit where Mal just walks in and shoots the Fed is a fave. It's got so many layers. Like, it makes you think of Indiana Jones, where he shoots the guy with a whip. And it shows you the differences in personality and action between Mal and Simon. And it's a great end to the dramatic back and forthing we've just seen - Mal and the gang taking on Patience while the folks back at Serenity are fighting with Dobson. And it also underscores that while the Alliance is a force to be fought against, it doesn't even come close to scaring the crew as much as the Reavers.Oh, eetah! Especially on the bolded part. I wonder how much of the planet's atmosphere was ignited, if it reached Patience's settlements, say, from the firestorm. And I love, love, LOVE the camera work in these scenes.. I had to have it pointed out to me in the DVD commentary, but the cgi effects acting like shaky documentary camera work, with the cameraman feeling the emotions, the terror of the moment, faltering, then focusing on his work, say.. adds to the urgency. the Verite of it all. Splendid.
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Post by Matthew on Jul 1, 2004 2:04:32 GMT -5
Hi all! For one glorious moment this weekend, I was kinda caught up on the main board. And now I'm not. Ah, well. <SNIP> Mal and Simon always seem to be as far apart as the widescreen allows. And yet, Mal offers him a job and safety at the end, despite all the trouble he knows will come of it. Personally, it reminds me of Buffy's decision to let Spike in for Thanksgiving dinner (without any slash that I can see, though). Simon has useful skills, just as Spike had useful information, but his being a prominent fugitive would cause more problems than the doctoring is worth. And yet, it seems like the right decision to Mal, despite the additional burden and his already strained resources. I would have liked to have seen how their relationship would have played out over the course of years. <SNIP> How a person treats someone, even a pain in the ass, dangerous to have around someone, who comes to him as a supplicant, seeking sanctuary, says what you need to know about the person: is he a hero, or a victim himself? Buffy gives sanctuary to Spike, as she IS a hero: even if he is her worst enemy from prior, he has proven that he is an honorable creature (even with his power prior to this), able to keep his word. Mal gives sanctuary to Simon and River, because HE is a hero. It's what a hero does: not counting the cost to them (even if they may count the benefit), when approached by somone in need, asking for shelter. As Simon is basically harmless save in the attention he calls down, he does not need the evidence of good parole. Mal believes in a fair shake, and in standing by one's word: witness not shooting Patience, despite the fact that she's tried her damndest to shoot him: it's just business, but all the same, he's not the cutthroat she is: he holds himself to a higher standard, and thus retains much more of his humanity. With Dobson? Breaker of parole(though he never gave it)? Threatener of those under Mal's personal Aegis? Death: immediate, unforgiving, final. Some things you just don't do to the Hero. -M
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Post by Matthew on Jul 1, 2004 2:08:21 GMT -5
I tend to think when he said the thing about Kaylee wishing Simon was a ob/gyn Jayne was trying to tease Kaylee, make the kind of clever joke he thought someone like Mal might come up with; it was after Mal chastised him in front of everyone else that he got defensive and a little nastier. But the scene where he watches Kaylee's surgery definitely indicates he has some strong feelings for her. Wonder if that explains his strong antipathy toward Simon--and if the reward was the only reason he tried to get Simon and River arrested? Hmmm... My GOD, YES!!!!!! I never thought of that before, but it suits so perfectly!!! He's trying to emulate the captain that he sorta respects and admires, and when he realizes he blew it, he gets all kindsa sour grapes on it!! *Gives Sara a standing, hopping on one foot, twirling around in circles, ovation*
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Post by Matthew on Jul 1, 2004 2:12:39 GMT -5
Interesting lines that Inara and Mal say. When she is talking to Simon and says: "You're lost in the woods. We all are, even the captain. He just likes it that way." Mal is standing in the door and says: "Woods are the only place I can see a see a clear path." Along with all the very obvious "Western" elements in the second half of Serenity (the meet on Whitefall, with the horses and the ambush and all), this line of Mal's really made me see the parallel with these folks and post-Civil War America that Matthew was talking about. 'Cuz that is such a frontier kind of thing to say. Like Daniel Boone, with his "when you can see the smoke from your neighbor's chimney, it's time to move farther out". Which, I know, is actually from an earlier historical time, but still has that classic "frontier" feel to it, ya know? (And did any of that make sense at all? I think I am using some of Rachael's mangled fly brains instead of my own scrambled - but not usually this scrambled - ones.) Lola No, it scans. Frontier was sort of a continuum in time, so even though it moved from Kentucky out west, further every year (consider that the Reavers are "pushing out further every year"), it was still the dynamic that the post civil-war rebs went out to be a part of, for the freedom and the anonymity. Also, "This is a fertile land, and we shall call it... this land" reflects a fronteir mentality on the part of Wash: Gives me the idea that moving on out and settling may be a dream of overcrowded slumdwellers on the inner planets, even if the going is rough at first.. so much so that it is a part of the cultural norm.. moving out and making a new start of things.. BTW, Mike Resnick's Santiago is set in a future that is almost like that of the Alliance: but focuses on Santiago, a desperado, and outlaw, a legend, a bogeyman, and one bounty hunter's search for him, through the worlds Santiago's influenced in his travels out through to the Fronteir worlds.... throughout it are woven larger than life characters immortalized in a future song cycle by a bard named Black Orpheus, which quotes figure in the chapter titles: it's a story of change and of ultimate purpose, and something that will scan VERY well to anyone who appreciates Firefly... To me, a very fun read: fine melodrama. I'm also trapped in the sondheim musical from the subject line..
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Post by Matthew on Jul 1, 2004 2:15:44 GMT -5
Love the hopefulness in the "It's enough" line, too. For me, it was the crew's reactions that really sell the idea that the Reavers are bad, bad, bad news. Mal just freezes; Wash is going "oh God, oh God"; Zoe just closes her eyes and gets to make that stunning speech to Simon. But most of all - it was Jayne going for his guns and Inara quietly getting out something she could use to kill herself. That was just like ... oof. Gotta take this serious, now. And while they are waiting for the ship to go by, Mal is subtly doing more "fatherly/taking care of crew" stuff. Like he distracts Wash from obsessively watching the ship by directing him back to his instruments. Hadn't thought of Mal using the joke on Simon in quite that way. Very clever thought, Karen. It really makes sense, doesn't it? On a small ship like that, with long times between planet fall - it would be really important for Mal to work at diffusing tensions, keeping people from boiling over. Lola Ah yes, yet another favorite scene.. thanks for adding depth to it by illustrating that Mal is still the leader that he was during the War.. the Old Man, caring for his troops, his shipmates, as if they were his children..
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Post by Karen on Jul 1, 2004 7:25:29 GMT -5
Oh, eetah! Especially on the bolded part. I wonder how much of the planet's atmosphere was ignited, if it reached Patience's settlements, say, from the firestorm. And I love, love, LOVE the camera work in these scenes.. I had to have it pointed out to me in the DVD commentary, but the cgi effects acting like shaky documentary camera work, with the cameraman feeling the emotions, the terror of the moment, faltering, then focusing on his work, say.. adds to the urgency. the Verite of it all. Splendid. Yes. The camera work is awesome. It's why I can almost feel as if Serenity itself is alive. She's a beauty - no wonder Kaylee loves her so.
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Post by Lola m on Jul 3, 2004 20:08:47 GMT -5
My GOD, YES!!!!!! I never thought of that before, but it suits so perfectly!!! He's trying to emulate the captain that he sorta respects and admires, and when he realizes he blew it, he gets all kindsa sour grapes on it!! *Gives Sara a standing, hopping on one foot, twirling around in circles, ovation* Eetah on your standing ovation! (Although I will not attempt the twirling part tonight as I would probably hurt myself.) Jayne has respect for Mal like he's had for precious few folks in his life, I expect. Or he wouldn't actually obey Mal like he does (most of the time ) Lola
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Post by Lola m on Jul 3, 2004 20:10:09 GMT -5
No, it scans. Frontier was sort of a continuum in time, so even though it moved from Kentucky out west, further every year (consider that the Reavers are "pushing out further every year"), it was still the dynamic that the post civil-war rebs went out to be a part of, for the freedom and the anonymity. Also, "This is a fertile land, and we shall call it... this land" reflects a fronteir mentality on the part of Wash: Gives me the idea that moving on out and settling may be a dream of overcrowded slumdwellers on the inner planets, even if the going is rough at first.. so much so that it is a part of the cultural norm.. moving out and making a new start of things.. BTW, Mike Resnick's Santiago is set in a future that is almost like that of the Alliance: but focuses on Santiago, a desperado, and outlaw, a legend, a bogeyman, and one bounty hunter's search for him, through the worlds Santiago's influenced in his travels out through to the Fronteir worlds.... throughout it are woven larger than life characters immortalized in a future song cycle by a bard named Black Orpheus, which quotes figure in the chapter titles: it's a story of change and of ultimate purpose, and something that will scan VERY well to anyone who appreciates Firefly... To me, a very fun read: fine melodrama. I'm also trapped in the sondheim musical from the subject line.. I hadn't thought of the "pushing out further every year" line like that before. But it really does fit, doesn't it? Lola
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Post by SpringSummers on Jul 10, 2004 21:37:07 GMT -5
Sara!
I didn't watch Firefly when it was on, and don't have the DVD, so you're not going to be seeing a lot of commentary from me here, BUT, I was curious and read your first review.
So I just wanted to say you have a nice writing style and great eye for viewing the Jossverse. I agree with your observations re Joss's methods, particularly your observation about how much he relies on his actors to convey subtlities. I think he's very, very careful with the casting, and it certainly pays off for him most every time.
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Post by William the Bloody on Jul 11, 2004 20:26:14 GMT -5
Unfortunately I was gone and didn't get in on the bulk of this discussion til it was basically over.
I would like to say how impressed I am with Sara's covering of hte pilot and her deft writing skills.
Second, even tho I wasn't able to participate in the first two eps discussion I will be doing everythign I can to be involved in Bushwacked and the rest. Firefly is dear to my heart, very much as dear as Buffy or Angel ever was. It was because of Firefly and my posting on the discussion board at ScoopMe that I found all you wonderful folks in All Things JM.
You all had excellent points to make, raised many of hte same questions I held as I watched the series and this is EXACTLY the thing I wished for and nearly had when the series was first run.
So, with that I will conclude this post and prepare to watch "Bushwacked" for tomorrow's discussion.
Keep flyin', Vlad
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Post by Karen on Jul 11, 2004 20:49:05 GMT -5
Sara's Review Quote: "And no matter how long any of them live on Serenity or how close to her crew they become, there will always be that subtle difference delineating the boundaries between Mal and his people and those they’ve taken in." I didn't think much about the division between crew and passengers. Excellent observation, and one that will take me in a different direction when rewatching. I loved your review. Sara. I liked how you pointed out the colors and the camera angles. I'll be looking for that when I rewatch the rest of the series. Thanks for giving me "new eyes". You pointed out how Joss uses his actors' subtle acting to fill in the subtext. Very neat. I agree, the reavers scared the crap out of me, and I haven't even seen them yet. But just the fear in everyone's faces - especially, like you pointed out, in Zoe - one we didn't see flinch when confronted with danger - cinched that feeling. Quote: "But what sticks out for me is when Simon asks Zoe about the Reavers. The description she gives him of what will ensue if the ship is taken is bad enough.But this is a woman we’ve seen face enemy fire without flinching, level a look that all but incinerated Mal where he stood when she realized he lied to her, and faced down an agitated and armed Jayne with nary a twitch. So when Gina Torres lets the slight widening of her eyes and tightness in her voice tell us that Zoe is genuinely afraid of the Reavers... I don’t know about anyone else, but that’s when I became frightened of them as well." Oh - yeah. Gives me the shivers even now. Love Joss-induces shivers. Great review! I look forward to the rest of them.
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