|
Post by Queen E on Jul 12, 2004 11:56:32 GMT -5
Don't know if I have a lot to add to what was already said, except to say, Sara, that your review was insightful and excellently written.
More later, just wanted to let you know that.
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Jul 12, 2004 15:09:48 GMT -5
Sara – great review! First, let me just say “yay” for opening with one of the quotes that I have always thought summed up Mal extremely well. Eetah with the introduced to crew as crew and the others as . . . others. And Inara as kind of balanced in between. It’s presented very deliberately. And naturally so, I think. It is the only believable dynamic if you assume this group of people has been working and living with each other for a while. Well, I could just keep squeaking eetah to virtually the whole review, but I’d rather concentrate on the stuff you bring up that was a revelation to me or particularly added clarification or a new way of looking at things. So, here’s my list of nifty new insights due to Sara: * I’d noticed several ways the crew was separated from the passengers, but hadn’t thought about their use of language. Neat. * I always tend to notice the ways in which the actor’s help convey messages beyond just through the actual lines, but have difficulty noticing things like set colors, lighting, etc. So I appreciate all of the folks here who are better at that and can allow me to see subtle notes I might otherwise consciously miss. Such as the matching colors in engine room and Kaylee’s cabin that tie those areas to her, or Mal towering over Badger. I think I am like many folks who respond to these cue subconsciously, but need help to really see them. * Totally missed that the ship Book didn’t take is called Brutus! Also never thought about what it means that the first shot of Mal is a stumble and recover! Gosh, just goes to show you can watch and watch Joss’ stuff and still always have something more to discover. (Guess that’s why we’re still discussing Buffy eps from 8 years ago, huh?) * Last, but certainly not least, thanks for really driving it home to me that the Alliance is not just “the bad guy” but much more complex and layered than that. Because Firefly was not a supernatural, but rather a realistic show. Yes, set in a possible future, but with normal, real human beings and therefore “total evil” is not really appropriate. The Alliance may be over-large, blandly corporate, and more responsive to those with power and money as opposed to those without, but it’s not W&H or the First Evil. And like any large organization with too much power, some areas of it have not resisted the temptation to become like little gods, trampling over anyone they feel they need to achieve their ends. And we’ll find out much more about that as River’s story develops. Once again, brava, Sara! Lola
|
|
|
Post by Linda on Aug 4, 2004 3:54:35 GMT -5
Hi Sara! Excellent analysis! In the interest of brevity, please apply: Kewl! Good point! Eetah! to all of the paragraphs of your analysis. Just wanted to let you know. I apologize that I took so long to comment, but I have this thing where I just have to watch the episode after reading the analysis. It just makes it more fun. (Yes, I'm a geek.) Thanks for pointing out all of the unobtrusive ways that Joss handed us information about all of the characters and the world they inhabited. He's so good that it's hard to pinpoint why we know what we know. (So you supplied many an "Aha!" moment to my re-watch.) And the fun thing is: seeing how he does it doesn't detract or distract from the story at all. They guy is a complete storyteller. And I really like your speculation about why Mal named his ship Serenity. I've been wondering about it and your explanation makes the most sense to me. And your summary of Mal's arc and Joss' symbolic way of telling his story was *neat.* Regarding Mal's deliberate use of the phrase 'We're out of the woods': do you think that it implied that he no longer had a clear path? If so, perhaps it is one of the reasons he accepted the burden of Simon and River: to put himself back into the woods and therefore to a place where he can see a path. I agree with Matthew that Mal *is* a hero and that this act was heroic. But Buffy's decision to take Spike in had more going on there than just heroism. (Still not talking slash in this case, though, 'cause of the father-figure vibe.) I just get the feeling that this relationship has some of the highest potential for development and betrayal. After all, by making Mal run from the feds, Simon is the only person on board that was able to make Mal do something that he *really* didn't intend to do. A will vs. will thing. Not that their father & son relationship had much chance to deepen in these few episodes. I was thinking maybe a couple of seasons down the line. But. . .did that scene make anyone else think of: "Good night, Westley. Sleep well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning."? Hee! Rachael's allusion kinda fits in with my theory of what may have been in store for the relationship. (But even if I'm wrong, as usual, Princess Bride quotage is always welcome.) Stupid network suits. www.soulfulspike.com/membersavatars/smileys/badrazz.gif [/img] Linda, still bitter
|
|
|
Post by Linda on Aug 4, 2004 4:06:17 GMT -5
Oh, by the way, thanks to Sara and her analysis, I re-watched the episode twice, once with the commentary, of course.
Here are some of the things that I missed the last couple of times I listened to it (for some reason I keep getting caught up in the story - damn Joss):
During the scene where Mal is comforting Kaylee after she had been shot ("I'm a mean old man"), Nathan Fillion begins to say that he thought that the other characters represented parts of Mal with which he is currently out of touch and that he thought Kaylee represented Mal's goodness and trust in people (which I interpret as his heart.) There is silence from Joss after this comment and NF doesn't elaborate further. I actually believe Joss' silence on this point is a confirmation. But I also wonder why he doesn't wish to talk about it. Is he afraid of making it too easy for the rest of us?
Also during the commentary, Joss himself mentioned the name of the Alliance cruiser: the "Dortmunder." I think that this *is* a deliberate allusion to John A. Dortmunder, a character in a series of comic crime novels by Donald Westlake. The following passage is from the novel Why Me (published in 1983, so kinda carbon-dated technology/caper-wise, but still character-fun.).
In this novel, Dortmunder has accidentally stolen the most valuable ruby ring in the world (which just happened to be temporarily stored in an ordinary jeweler's safe by the original thieves). Through characteristic rotten luck, Dortmunder has been pulled in for questioning. With the ring STUCK on his finger. He's turned the stone around onto his palm, but there's nothing else that he can do. And so, he's sitting in a long line of criminal-types for *three hours*, his fingers curved (not suspiciously clenched) around the huge chunk of ruby, waiting for the officers in charge to question him.
John Dortmunder is a grouchy, gloomy, amoral criminal. But although he consistently fails to make that one big score, he keeps himself and his various crews out of the hands of the authorities with his peculiar talent for planning crime and his intransigent stubbornness in the face of the worst or most ridiculous circumstances.
Linda, quoted without permission. (But, like be, trying to get people to buy the book, right?)
|
|
|
Post by Pixi on Jun 20, 2005 10:31:04 GMT -5
Are the dogs part of the (unexplained) Chinese motif? I understand plump young pups (rather than adult dogs) are/were items on the human menu there (don't know if this is current or bygone practice, or merely a canard. Do you?) I presume they are part of the Chinese motif--I have no idea if it is/was a dining practice in China. As to why the Chinese motif at all, it was explained on the old Firefly site thusly according to the excellent Firefly timeline: The United States and China, the two great superpowers of the Earth, gradually grow together (from 2004-2459) and form the Anglo-Sino Alliance, rather than killing each other as originally predicted. Over time, American and Chinese culture meld together to the point that English and Mandarin even become integrated languages.
[Firefly website. In an interview on the site, series creator Joss Whedon explained that this was his contextual justification for including Chinese dialogue in the series, and this history is implicit in the design of the Alliance flag, a combination of the present-day flags of the two countries in question. Although the characters we see over the course of the series speak primarily in English, with the occasional Manadarin interjection, one can presume that at least some of their contemporaries prefer the reverse.]If anyone's interested, you can check out the timeline here: www.mts.net/~arphaxad/firefly.html I think it's a terrific and comprehensive resource that fills in some gaps very nicely. I was wondering. I love the intermittent bursts of Chinese thoughout the series. Thanks for confirming this.
|
|
|
Post by Pixi on Jun 20, 2005 10:33:16 GMT -5
I'd say that Dobson, the Alliance agent, is the least successful thing in part one: he's an unadorned baddie, with no complexifying although we see him up close and personal, as it were--unlike the Reavers. However, so much is going on in this (half)ep, with so many characters at odds and to keep track of, maybe it was felt we needed a really simple baddie to make the sides sort out so we could follow them. Through Dobson's shooting Kaylee, we realize that just about everybody (except Jayne, perhaps) is genuinely fond of Kaylee, and Mal calls her "little sister" in Chinese. We find that Jayne is out for himself and corruptable for the right price. We find out Book knows something about medicine and that Simon is extremely protective of his sister. So Dobson *does* serve to sort the sides out...I'm just not sure that's enough to justify the character. He's too much a function of the plot, not enough of a character in his own right (as the Master is, for instance). Any thoughts about Dobson? I also found Dobson boring. But it was the pilot episode, things had to be put in place. He had to serve to move all the pieces into place. And I know I only have one disc left to watch (I've seen the first three discs) but I really, really want to know more of the Reavers. They were very nicely introduced. Good scare factor. Seriously creepy.
|
|
|
Post by Pixi on Jun 20, 2005 10:36:35 GMT -5
I was watching it while also trying to finish watching Salem's Lot so it took me a bit longer than I planned. These are my notes as I took 'em... - Serenity Valley
- Not religious huh? Kissing the cross. He used to be optimistic... but the battlefield can do strange things to one's outlook on life.
- "We'll own this valley no matter what." "We are just too pretty for God to let us die."
- I love the 'quiet' of space.
- LOL. Gosh I love the dinosaur war. It always cracks me up.
-
Going dark.
- lol I love the decoy. Think they have to remake that every time?
- "Sometimes you just want to duck tape her mouth and dump her in the hold for 3 months." "I love my captain." I love Kaylee!
- Cocky Mal. I love it.
- "Still a soldier?" Is he, still a soldier? Was he ever really one or just someone out to save his world/his freedom?
- So, we're getting set up..
Mal - The Soldier. The Captain. Cocky SOB. Yet, he cares strongly about his crew. Then again, he is the soldier. Soldiers make strong bonds with their fellow soldiers.
Zoey - His First Mate, definitely the one he trusts to have his back at all times. She's also the one who has no fear of Mal. I suspect, though, that she's only around out of loyalty. Ok, that's not true. I think she's also about the adventure and the maintaining some semblance of freedom away from the Alliance. In space, they can be as free as they can from the Alliance control. It's what she shares with Mal.
Wash - He's just along for the ride. He's there for Zoey and that's it. For him it's about his love for her and wanting to be with her than anything else. For that reason, he's loyalty to Mal is only second to his loyalty for Zoey.
Jayne - He's a man serving his own interests. Not sure if it's greed or just selfish desires. Yet, he cares about Kaylee (that moment rockin' back and forth while Simon works on her).
Kaylee - The Kind Heart of the group. She takes such pleasure in fruit. Seems to indicate she'll take pleasure in the little joys of life. She loves 'her' ship. The pride she had when she told Book it was the best ship. So different from the other man trying to get him. BTW, her nature is *why* everyone loves her and her getting shot changes everything happening on the ship.
Inara - (I'll save this one for the next half)
Book - A Shepard.. not in a rush. If it's the journey that matters, what kinda of ride is he looking for?
Simon - (I'll save this one for the next half)
River - (I'll save this one for the next half)
- Mal doesn't hold grudges.. Living for the mo' I'd say. He's not afraid to cut losses and move along. "Anyone gets nosy just, you know, shoot 'em. Politely."
Oh I loved, loved, loved that little dinosaur war. That made me fall for Wash right away. From then on - he was golden. That was just classic.
|
|
|
Post by Pixi on Jun 20, 2005 10:37:50 GMT -5
I was watching it while also trying to finish watching Salem's Lot so it took me a bit longer than I planned. These are my notes as I took 'em... - Serenity Valley
- Not religious huh? Kissing the cross. He used to be optimistic... but the battlefield can do strange things to one's outlook on life.
- "We'll own this valley no matter what." "We are just too pretty for God to let us die."
- I love the 'quiet' of space.
- LOL. Gosh I love the dinosaur war. It always cracks me up.
- Going dark.
- lol I love the decoy. Think they have to remake that every time?
- "Sometimes you just want to duck tape her mouth and dump her in the hold for 3 months." "I love my captain." I love Kaylee!
- Cocky Mal. I love it.
- "Still a soldier?" Is he, still a soldier? Was he ever really one or just someone out to save his world/his freedom?
- So, we're getting set up..
Mal - The Soldier. The Captain. Cocky SOB. Yet, he cares strongly about his crew. Then again, he is the soldier. Soldiers make strong bonds with their fellow soldiers.
Zoey - His First Mate, definitely the one he trusts to have his back at all times. She's also the one who has no fear of Mal. I suspect, though, that she's only around out of loyalty. Ok, that's not true. I think she's also about the adventure and the maintaining some semblance of freedom away from the Alliance. In space, they can be as free as they can from the Alliance control. It's what she shares with Mal.
Wash - He's just along for the ride. He's there for Zoey and that's it. For him it's about his love for her and wanting to be with her than anything else. For that reason, he's loyalty to Mal is only second to his loyalty for Zoey.
Jayne - He's a man serving his own interests. Not sure if it's greed or just selfish desires. Yet, he cares about Kaylee (that moment rockin' back and forth while Simon works on her).
Kaylee - The Kind Heart of the group. She takes such pleasure in fruit. Seems to indicate she'll take pleasure in the little joys of life. She loves 'her' ship. The pride she had when she told Book it was the best ship. So different from the other man trying to get him. BTW, her nature is *why* everyone loves her and her getting shot changes everything happening on the ship.
Inara - (I'll save this one for the next half)
Book - A Shepard.. not in a rush. If it's the journey that matters, what kinda of ride is he looking for?
Simon - (I'll save this one for the next half)
River - (I'll save this one for the next half)
- Mal doesn't hold grudges.. Living for the mo' I'd say. He's not afraid to cut losses and move along. "Anyone gets nosy just, you know, shoot 'em. Politely."
Chiming in in no particular order: [/li][li]Who doesn't love the dinosaur war? The best part is if you watch AT's audition reel, you'll see he performed that scene in "Serenity" almost exactly as he did when he auditioned for the role. [/li][li] Interesting that the ship Book turned down was named Brutus, given the betrayal yet to come on the ship he chooses. Okay, maybe it's not all that interesting. [/li][li] Great thoughts on the characters and how they're being established, particularly your observations about Kaylee. Naturally I have all kinds of other genius insights, but I'm saving those for the review. [/quote] I did not catch that so nice. Very nice.
|
|
|
Post by Pixi on Jun 21, 2005 11:15:40 GMT -5
One more thought. I loved the review Sara. Just add eatah and me too and I agree and oh wow to every point you made.
Cause it would be really boring of me to do that.
;D
|
|
|
Post by Onjel on Jun 21, 2005 20:50:30 GMT -5
That's definitely a start. I'd say Mal takes their bond for granted and never gives it a second thought. And I really did not need to see the vendor selling dogs. Just thought I'd share. Are the dogs part of the (unexplained) Chinese motif? I understand plump young pups (rather than adult dogs) are/were items on the human menu there (don't know if this is current or bygone practice, or merely a canard. Do you?) It was and is a practice in China and Korea. Food dogs are not the same kinds of dogs kept for pets, however.
|
|
|
Post by fish1941 on Jan 9, 2006 18:55:04 GMT -5
I wish I could say that I really love this show . . . or this pilot episode. But I can't. I don't hate it. But I don't love it. I guess Joss Whedon was trying to be original . . . and maybe he'll achieve this, as I watch more episode. Right now, I'm not that impressed. And it didn't help matters that Kaylee turned out to be a clone of the Willow Rosenberg and Fred Burkle characters.
|
|
|
Post by Karen on Jun 27, 2006 14:52:14 GMT -5
Firefly kicks ass! That is all. Seriously. We were robbed.
|
|
|
Post by Rachael on Jun 27, 2006 14:56:59 GMT -5
Firefly kicks ass! That is all. Seriously. We were robbed. Well, yeah.
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Jun 27, 2006 16:21:58 GMT -5
Firefly kicks ass! That is all. Seriously. We were robbed. Well, yeah. #metoo# I mean, just think of what it could have been . . . being that good even in the first few eps . . .
|
|