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Post by TechnoSlut on Jun 14, 2004 12:39:19 GMT -5
Written by: Joss Whedon & Tim Minear Directed by: Joss Whedon Air date: 9/20/02
Mal has second thoughts after discovering that two boxes of Alliance goods his crew has been hired to steal are full of badly needed medical supplies headed for the mining town of Paradiso.
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Post by raenstorm on Jul 5, 2004 18:24:40 GMT -5
The opening scene is one of my faves in this show. I love the way the ship comes up from beneath the cliff behind Mal, Zoe, & Jayne. "I'm thinking we'll rise again." Plus, I love the bar fight in this space/sci-fi show.
Jayne, as usual, doesn't fight for any cause that isn't his own. Really setting the stage for the fact that he's only loyal to himself. That's sure to cause problems in the future.
LOL - "Are you getting my wife in trouble?"
Book asks why Mal is allowing Simon and River to stay on the ship. He doesn't answer and I think I agree with Book. He may not actually be sure why he feels compelled to help them. Of course, as we see at the end of this episode, there are just some things he doesn't see as a choice and this may be one of them. Or, is Jayne right when he says, "Captain's got a move he ain't made yet. You'll see." (Not that I think Jayne really understands Mal.)
I just love the way he says, "Were there monkeys?" It cracks me up every time. Then, followed by, "Have you got time to do my hair?" at the end of that scene. I love the combo of Mal, Inara, and Kaylee.
Something I really like about the sets and 'feel' of Firefly is the mix of space & simple Earth things. For instance, the tiffany lamp on the desk of the spaceship and then being able to see it's reflection in the background when looking at the digital map. It's such a blending of things and it's more how I picture the future. Joss isn't trying to reinvent the world in the future, he's trying to show that the old world is still there with all the advancements we've made.
Another quote I like, "He's not the first psycho to hire us nor the last. You think that's a commentary on us?"
Another question re-raised in this episode is why does Inara 'sail' with them? Is it her connection with Mal or is there another reason that isn't apparent to us yet?
LOL! "Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing."
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Post by Lola m on Jul 5, 2004 18:31:46 GMT -5
The opening scene is one of my faves in this show. I love the way the ship comes up from beneath the cliff behind Mal, Zoe, & Jayne. "I'm thinking we'll rise again." Plus, I love the bar fight in this space/sci-fi show. Jayne, as usual, doesn't fight for any cause that isn't his own. Really setting the stage for the fact that he's only loyal to himself. That's sure to cause problems in the future. LOL - "Are you getting my wife in trouble?" Book asks why Mal is allowing Simon and River to stay on the ship. He doesn't answer and I think I agree with Book. He may not actually be sure why he feels compelled to help them. Of course, as we see at the end of this episode, there are just some things he doesn't see as a choice and this may be one of them. Or, is Jayne right when he says, "Captain's got a move he ain't made yet. You'll see." (Not that I think Jayne really understands Mal.) I just love the way he says, "Were there monkeys?" It cracks me up every time. Then, followed by, "Have you got time to do my hair?" at the end of that scene. I love the combo of Mal, Inara, and Kaylee. Something I really like about the sets and 'feel' of Firefly is the mix of space & simple Earth things. For instance, the tiffany lamp on the desk of the spaceship and then being able to see it's reflection in the background when looking at the digital map. It's such a blending of things and it's more how I picture the future. Joss isn't trying to reinvent the world in the future, he's trying to show that the old world is still there with all the advancements we've made. Another quote I like, "He's not the first psycho to hire us nor the last. You think that's a commentary on us?" Another question re-raised in this episode is why does Inara 'sail' with them? Is it her connection with Mal or is there another reason that isn't apparent to us yet? LOL! "Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing." Another cool mix of hi and low tech - the holographic bar window they are thrown out of. That cracks me up, 'cuz it's like they have so many fights it is cheaper to have the techno window than to keep replacing glass. Lola
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Post by Rachael on Jul 5, 2004 18:40:54 GMT -5
I agree about the opening scene - although at first it was straight out of Star Trek, except that the dancing girl wasn't green.
"I think we'll rise again" - shades of the Civil War, again.
I love the fight, for the mixing of the usual great fight choreography with the little realistic details - like Zoe flinging dirt in the eyes of her opponent.
"You're servicing crew now?" "In your lonely, pathetic dreams."
About praying for Mal: "Don't tell him - I never do."
There's lots of people not knowing what their function is in this episode - Book, Simon, and Inara (internally) all wonder what they can do, if anything to help with the train job, and it reflects their wondering what role they play on Serenity at all. Interesting that two of the three of them wind up being absolutely essential to the successful outcome of the story.
I love the end - the guy refuses to do as he's told, gives a long-winded speech, and in classic Joss style, is kicked into an exhaust port. NEXT!
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Jul 5, 2004 19:12:06 GMT -5
I got confused. I downloaded "In the Dark," and it took nearly all day. So I got it into my head that that's what was on tap for discussion tonight. Of course I haven't watched that either.... I've downloaded The Train Job and will chip in on the discussion a little later.
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Post by Lola m on Jul 5, 2004 19:27:37 GMT -5
So I was thinking about how this was the first ep I actually saw on TV, 'cuz they didn't show the flippin' actual premier ep til the END of the gorram series !!!!
Deep breaths. Deep breaths.
OK, calmer now.
Anyway, I was thinking about how Joss and Tim had to write this to be a replacement/alternate first ep - in other words, to make this also do the job of an opening show without invalidating the first (real) one they shot. Would need to do a lot of the same stuff, but not in a boring, repeated kind of way. (It's still amazing to me that they wrote this over one weekend, re-doing all the stuff they'd planned before but differently, with the changes the network suits wanted, but without actually betraying their own concept. Wow.)
Here's my idea of how this ep handled the same main concepts/themes as Serenity did.
1) Give us the explanation/motivation of Mal as well as his relationship with Zoe and the current political set-up of this verse - but without doing the opening battle. So, instead, we get the opening bar scene, where we see Mal and Zoe act together to defend their past history as "independents / browncoats". And we get the war history from the blowhard guy in the bar.
2) Explain the main crew and their criminal exploits and how they interact. So we get Mal and Zoe and Jayne being the folks who are at the bar to get info and later go to see Niska (mirroring the scene with Badger). We see Jayne being the muscle and Zoe being the loyal second in command. We see Wash doing the fancy pilot stuff to save them at the cliff edge and to lower Jayne into the train and see him involved because of his wife, not because of the rest of them (says he won't leave his wife behind, mentions Mal later, but first it is just Zoe he cares about.) We see Kaylee as the very important mechanic (Mal comes to get her when Inara is working on her hair) and the cheerful, helpful little criminal lowering Jayne into the train. We see that Inara is not really part of the crew, but is the respectable front they show to the world.
3) Meet Serenity herself and learn to love her. So we get an amazing first shot of her coming up the cliff and then all the cool moving around her shots and then the fancy flying over the train. (Sort of the same progression as in the real opener - amazing first shots in space, then moving around her, then the final fancy flying scenes to get away from the reavers.)
4) Meet "the passangers" and see how they fit. So we meet Simon and River and have a mini-explanation of their history when he is explaining what's up to her. And then we meet Book when he has the conversation with Mal that not only gives us more Simon & River background, but also gives us a tiny bit of info about him. We even learn there is some mystery about Book (the later scene where he knows who Niska is and doesn't answer how a Shepherd would know that).
5) Learn about the world these folks inhabit. All the wonderful little bits - from the Chinese phrases, the mix of technology, the discussions about the isolation of the far flung planets versus the big bland evil Alliance (another scene with the same Alliance ship and crew as in Serenity, talking about how they don't care about a stupid little hijack of some medical supplies - and are shown the planet where this is a very big deal.)
6) Understand the point that these are the good guys, even though they are forced to do not good things to survive. So we have the final scenes with giving the drugs back as well as the one where Mal kills Niska's henchman.
Really rather amazing that they did it again, in a shorter time frame, with a nice adventure (the train job itself) thrown in, and without duplicating or making pointless the real two hour opener.
Lola
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Post by Queen E on Jul 5, 2004 19:30:58 GMT -5
I agree about the opening scene - although at first it was straight out of Star Trek, except that the dancing girl wasn't green. "I think we'll rise again" - shades of the Civil War, again. I love the fight, for the mixing of the usual great fight choreography with the little realistic details - like Zoe flinging dirt in the eyes of her opponent. "You're servicing crew now?" "In your lonely, pathetic dreams." About praying for Mal: "Don't tell him - I never do." There's lots of people not knowing what their function is in this episode - Book, Simon, and Inara (internally) all wonder what they can do, if anything to help with the train job, and it reflects their wondering what role they play on Serenity at all. Interesting that two of the three of them wind up being absolutely essential to the successful outcome of the story. I love the end - the guy refuses to do as he's told, gives a long-winded speech, and in classic Joss style, is kicked into an exhaust port. NEXT! Also the function of "talk" in this episode. Niska discusses gossip and reputation. Jayne gets doped and his words go all funny. "You can't change that by getting all...bendy." Mal discusses moving "off the edge" to the "middle" (which is hilarious, since he'll never move off the edge; it's not in him). Kaylee says crime is as easy as "lyin'." River speaks in terms no one can yet understand. Crow talks too much and gets kicked into the engine. When Mal hears the "details" of the job, he changes his mind about what to do. A bar fight erupts due to a toast to the Alliance. On the other side, it is the action that we take that is ultimately more important. The obvious, seeing the situation in Paradiso and returning the medicine, and the not so obvious: realizing that "reasoning" with Jayne won't work, so drugging him and taking him out of commission. (Simon learns quickly.) There are other examples, but that's all I've got so far.
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Post by Lola m on Jul 5, 2004 19:57:16 GMT -5
Also the function of "talk" in this episode. Niska discusses gossip and reputation. Jayne gets doped and his words go all funny. "You can't change that by getting all...bendy." Mal discusses moving "off the edge" to the "middle" (which is hilarious, since he'll never move off the edge; it's not in him). Kaylee says crime is as easy as "lyin'." River speaks in terms no one can yet understand. Crow talks too much and gets kicked into the engine. When Mal hears the "details" of the job, he changes his mind about what to do. A bar fight erupts due to a toast to the Alliance. On the other side, it is the action that we take that is ultimately more important. The obvious, seeing the situation in Paradiso and returning the medicine, and the not so obvious: realizing that "reasoning" with Jayne won't work, so drugging him and taking him out of commission. (Simon learns quickly.) There are other examples, but that's all I've got so far. Cool! Good catch on a theme here. A lot of the talk about talk is getting at the idea of talk versus action. Are you "walking the talk", as it were. Like how the Alliance says it is taking care of the people, has guards on the train, etc. But doesn't actually do the right thing, doesn't bother to try and help find the medicine. Folks know it too - the sherrif is very honest about how they aren't expecting any help they don't provide themselves. And later, he let's Mal and Zoe go because: "You were truthful back in town. These are tough times. If a man can get a job, he might not look too close at what that job is. But a man learns all the details of a situation like ours, well, then he has a choice." BTW: I just love Mal's response to that. "I don't believe he does." Another scene that proves what a noble guy Mal really is. Lola
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Post by Queen E on Jul 5, 2004 20:11:24 GMT -5
Cool! Good catch on a theme here. A lot of the talk about talk is getting at the idea of talk versus action. Are you "walking the talk", as it were. Like how the Alliance says it is taking care of the people, has guards on the train, etc. But doesn't actually do the right thing, doesn't bother to try and help find the medicine. Folks know it too - the sherrif is very honest about how they aren't expecting any help they don't provide themselves. And later, he let's Mal and Zoe go because: "You were truthful back in town. These are tough times. If a man can get a job, he might not look too close at what that job is. But a man learns all the details of a situation like ours, well, then he has a choice." BTW: I just love Mal's response to that. "I don't believe he does." Another scene that proves what a noble guy Mal really is. Lola Love this episode. Talked about it in my paper I wrote for class, especially the fact that Paradiso, with the sickness and the flame spurts, was more Inferno than anything else. I love Joss Whedon. Really I do. Why can't I find a guy like that?
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Post by Linda on Jul 6, 2004 0:39:41 GMT -5
So I was thinking about how this was the first ep I actually saw on TV, 'cuz they didn't show the flippin' actual premier ep til the END of the gorram series !!!! Deep breaths. Deep breaths. OK, calmer now. Anyway, I was thinking about how Joss and Tim had to write this to be a replacement/alternate first ep - in other words, to make this also do the job of an opening show without invalidating the first (real) one they shot. Would need to do a lot of the same stuff, but not in a boring, repeated kind of way. (It's still amazing to me that they wrote this over one weekend, re-doing all the stuff they'd planned before but differently, with the changes the network suits wanted, but without actually betraying their own concept. Wow.) <snipped for space> Really rather amazing that they did it again, in a shorter time frame, with a nice adventure (the train job itself) thrown in, and without duplicating or making pointless the real two hour opener. Lola Sort of like a Second Breakfast. Similar food, but a whole 'nother yummy meal. Linda, multi-purpose geek
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Post by Linda on Jul 6, 2004 1:10:17 GMT -5
So I was thinking about how this was the first ep I actually saw on TV, 'cuz they didn't show the flippin' actual premier ep til the END of the gorram series !!!! Deep breaths. Deep breaths. OK, calmer now. Anyway, I was thinking about how Joss and Tim had to write this to be a replacement/alternate first ep - in other words, to make this also do the job of an opening show without invalidating the first (real) one they shot. Would need to do a lot of the same stuff, but not in a boring, repeated kind of way. (It's still amazing to me that they wrote this over one weekend, re-doing all the stuff they'd planned before but differently, with the changes the network suits wanted, but without actually betraying their own concept. Wow.) Here's my idea of how this ep handled the same main concepts/themes as Serenity did. 1) Give us the explanation/motivation of Mal as well as his relationship with Zoe and the current political set-up of this verse - but without doing the opening battle. So, instead, we get the opening bar scene, where we see Mal and Zoe act together to defend their past history as "independents / browncoats". And we get the war history from the blowhard guy in the bar. 2) Explain the main crew and their criminal exploits and how they interact. So we get Mal and Zoe and Jayne being the folks who are at the bar to get info and later go to see Niska (mirroring the scene with Badger). We see Jayne being the muscle and Zoe being the loyal second in command. We see Wash doing the fancy pilot stuff to save them at the cliff edge and to lower Jayne into the train and see him involved because of his wife, not because of the rest of them (says he won't leave his wife behind, mentions Mal later, but first it is just Zoe he cares about.) We see Kaylee as the very important mechanic (Mal comes to get her when Inara is working on her hair) and the cheerful, helpful little criminal lowering Jayne into the train. We see that Inara is not really part of the crew, but is the respectable front they show to the world. 3) Meet Serenity herself and learn to love her. So we get an amazing first shot of her coming up the cliff and then all the cool moving around her shots and then the fancy flying over the train. (Sort of the same progression as in the real opener - amazing first shots in space, then moving around her, then the final fancy flying scenes to get away from the reavers.) 4) Meet "the passangers" and see how they fit. So we meet Simon and River and have a mini-explanation of their history when he is explaining what's up to her. And then we meet Book when he has the conversation with Mal that not only gives us more Simon & River background, but also gives us a tiny bit of info about him. We even learn there is some mystery about Book (the later scene where he knows who Niska is and doesn't answer how a Shepherd would know that). 5) Learn about the world these folks inhabit. All the wonderful little bits - from the Chinese phrases, the mix of technology, the discussions about the isolation of the far flung planets versus the big bland evil Alliance (another scene with the same Alliance ship and crew as in Serenity, talking about how they don't care about a stupid little hijack of some medical supplies - and are shown the planet where this is a very big deal.) 6) Understand the point that these are the good guys, even though they are forced to do not good things to survive. So we have the final scenes with giving the drugs back as well as the one where Mal kills Niska's henchman. Really rather amazing that they did it again, in a shorter time frame, with a nice adventure (the train job itself) thrown in, and without duplicating or making pointless the real two hour opener. Lola I'm quoting this again 'cause: Nice recap Lola! And EETAH, except for maybe item #6. I'm not certain that the killing of Niska's henchman was a necessary "not good" act. It was expedient. I don't believe the man was an immediate threat to the ship. Would his vendetta have added much more danger to them than Niska's, which Mal had already decided to risk? To me, it had that Angel-gray feel to it. Sort of like a violent action-movie act, but with the Jossian touch of Mal flinching as he did it. It was different from Mal shooting and dumping Dobson, because Dobson was an immediate threat to the Tams and Serenity. And definitely no flinching there - all business. I only mention it because it was jarring to me when I first saw the episode. I think it was Joss' way of keeping Mal dark, but behind the Network Suits' collective back. Linda, but of course ymmv, as Matthew would say
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Post by Linda on Jul 6, 2004 1:28:45 GMT -5
Also the function of "talk" in this episode. Niska discusses gossip and reputation. Jayne gets doped and his words go all funny. "You can't change that by getting all...bendy." Mal discusses moving "off the edge" to the "middle" (which is hilarious, since he'll never move off the edge; it's not in him). Kaylee says crime is as easy as "lyin'." River speaks in terms no one can yet understand. Crow talks too much and gets kicked into the engine. When Mal hears the "details" of the job, he changes his mind about what to do. A bar fight erupts due to a toast to the Alliance. On the other side, it is the action that we take that is ultimately more important. The obvious, seeing the situation in Paradiso and returning the medicine, and the not so obvious: realizing that "reasoning" with Jayne won't work, so drugging him and taking him out of commission. (Simon learns quickly.) There are other examples, but that's all I've got so far. See, now, because of you, I have to watch the episode AGAIN. Poor me! ;D EETAH with Lola about the nice catch of the underlying theme. Linda, although, maybe not tonight, after the eyestrain of trying to catch up with the Main Board...
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Post by Queen E on Jul 6, 2004 8:20:13 GMT -5
See, now, because of you, I have to watch the episode AGAIN. Poor me! ;D EETAH with Lola about the nice catch of the underlying theme. Linda, although, maybe not tonight, after the eyestrain of trying to catch up with the Main Board... yes. i just feel terrible putting you through that.
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Post by Lola m on Jul 6, 2004 8:20:51 GMT -5
I'm quoting this again 'cause: Nice recap Lola! And EETAH, except for maybe item #6. I'm not certain that the killing of Niska's henchman was a necessary "not good" act. It was expedient. I don't believe the man was an immediate threat to the ship. Would his vendetta have added much more danger to them than Niska's, which Mal had already decided to risk? To me, it had that Angel-gray feel to it. Sort of like a violent action-movie act, but with the Jossian touch of Mal flinching as he did it. It was different from Mal shooting and dumping Dobson, because Dobson was an immediate threat to the Tams and Serenity. And definitely no flinching there - all business. I only mention it because it was jarring to me when I first saw the episode. I think it was Joss' way of keeping Mal dark, but behind the Network Suits' collective back. Linda, but of course ymmv, as Matthew would say Oh, eetah! The flinch of Mal's is perfect. Adds to the shades of gray thing. Also, I hadn't thought about it before, but having the henchman's death be not just a straight shooting (like Mal did to the fed) and be almost comic and very action-movie like was probably a way to get the same idea in but in a way the suits would like better. Good thinking! Lola
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Post by Lola m on Jul 6, 2004 8:31:59 GMT -5
Few more random thoughts:
Noticed nice little touches that show Jayne is actually rather good at his job. Granted, that job is basically just shooting and heavy lifting, but he does it well. Like when they are at Niska's place, Mal and Zoe both take the bait and look over at the door where the guy is hanging, but Jayne keeps his eyes right on Niska. 'Cuz that's where the danger is. And of course there is the great bit where he shoots the henchman (Crow?) even though he is all drugged up. Now, I don't think Joss is trying to say Jayne is suddenly become a "good guy" and wants to bring the drugs back or anything. I think it's just showing Jayne is good at what he is hired to do. Plus, I love the little grin between him and Mal on the train as they're getting the stuff. Shows that both of them are having fun, shows one of their similarities.
Loved both of the instances of River talking about the blue handed alliance guys - the "two by two, hands of blue" lines. Because they had her say the line when she is first "awake" and was dreaming / remembering the stuff the alliance did to her, I was more prepared to understand her words when she says it again at the end of the ep. And then, right after we see her huddled in her room saying it again, we get a quick cut right to the blue hand guys. Makes the scene with them much more creepy.
Lola
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