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Post by Lola m on Jul 6, 2004 19:32:31 GMT -5
More random thoughts bubbling up through the swiss cheese that is what I laughingly call a brain.
* Some fine examples of Mal just trying to get through this moment while Zoe is seeing the big picture and not being very happy with it. For example, when they get on the train and see all the Alliance guards and Mal is all giddy at stealing stuff right under their noses. Plus, it's just one of those all time great funny scenes.
To me, these lines rank right up there with the "Take me, sir. Take me hard" ones. As Rae said, it's just so LOL!
* Kaylee is just so happy and perky while she's setting up the cable to lower Jayne on to the train. I love the look on her face and the sound of her voice when Simon asks her "what are we doing" and she says "Crime!" Watching the scene this time, I also definitely got a jealous vibe off of Jayne when he comes up and interupts her and Simon. Like the way he says Simon is "all rich and fanciful". And "time for some thrilling heroics" is said sarcastically, but . . . .
* Other Jayne thought about that scene. Does Jayne really believe that Mal would sell Simon and River to the Alliance? 'Cuz I didn't get a sense that he was just saying that to Kaylee to bug her. I got the feeling he really thought it was possible. Which puts an interesting spin on Jayne's later actions.
* Another great scene between Inara and Book. They are just so drawn to each other - so similar in so many ways. So different from the rest on the ship in many of the same ways. As someone else mentioned, I really love her quiet "Don't tell him. I never do" after Book talks about how the captain wouldn't like him praying for him.
Lola
Oh! And I figured out to pay attention to Mal and Zoe hearing they had stolen medicine when Mal swore and it was in English rather than Chinese. 'Cuz that meant we were supposed to hear it and take note.
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Post by KMInfinity on Jul 6, 2004 21:38:52 GMT -5
So I was thinking about how this was the first ep I actually saw on TV, 'cuz they didn't show the flippin' actual premier ep til the END of the gorram series !!!! Deep breaths. Deep breaths. OK, calmer now. Anyway, I was thinking about how Joss and Tim had to write this to be a replacement/alternate first ep - in other words, to make this also do the job of an opening show without invalidating the first (real) one they shot. Would need to do a lot of the same stuff, but not in a boring, repeated kind of way. (It's still amazing to me that they wrote this over one weekend, re-doing all the stuff they'd planned before but differently, with the changes the network suits wanted, but without actually betraying their own concept. Wow.) Here's my idea of how this ep handled the same main concepts/themes as Serenity did. 1) Give us the explanation/motivation of Mal as well as his relationship with Zoe and the current political set-up of this verse - but without doing the opening battle. So, instead, we get the opening bar scene, where we see Mal and Zoe act together to defend their past history as "independents / browncoats". And we get the war history from the blowhard guy in the bar. 2) Explain the main crew and their criminal exploits and how they interact. So we get Mal and Zoe and Jayne being the folks who are at the bar to get info and later go to see Niska (mirroring the scene with Badger). We see Jayne being the muscle and Zoe being the loyal second in command. We see Wash doing the fancy pilot stuff to save them at the cliff edge and to lower Jayne into the train and see him involved because of his wife, not because of the rest of them (says he won't leave his wife behind, mentions Mal later, but first it is just Zoe he cares about.) We see Kaylee as the very important mechanic (Mal comes to get her when Inara is working on her hair) and the cheerful, helpful little criminal lowering Jayne into the train. We see that Inara is not really part of the crew, but is the respectable front they show to the world. 3) Meet Serenity herself and learn to love her. So we get an amazing first shot of her coming up the cliff and then all the cool moving around her shots and then the fancy flying over the train. (Sort of the same progression as in the real opener - amazing first shots in space, then moving around her, then the final fancy flying scenes to get away from the reavers.) 4) Meet "the passangers" and see how they fit. So we meet Simon and River and have a mini-explanation of their history when he is explaining what's up to her. And then we meet Book when he has the conversation with Mal that not only gives us more Simon & River background, but also gives us a tiny bit of info about him. We even learn there is some mystery about Book (the later scene where he knows who Niska is and doesn't answer how a Shepherd would know that). 5) Learn about the world these folks inhabit. All the wonderful little bits - from the Chinese phrases, the mix of technology, the discussions about the isolation of the far flung planets versus the big bland evil Alliance (another scene with the same Alliance ship and crew as in Serenity, talking about how they don't care about a stupid little hijack of some medical supplies - and are shown the planet where this is a very big deal.) 6) Understand the point that these are the good guys, even though they are forced to do not good things to survive. So we have the final scenes with giving the drugs back as well as the one where Mal kills Niska's henchman. Really rather amazing that they did it again, in a shorter time frame, with a nice adventure (the train job itself) thrown in, and without duplicating or making pointless the real two hour opener. Lola I also remembered that this episode worked as the series premier, and I tried to observe how JW made this work. Since I didn't see the show until I had the DVD, I actually did get to watch "Serenity 1&2" before I saw this, and despite the need to introduce everybody and provide a minimum level of backstory, the episode did not feel repetitive or redundant. We meet Mal first and he acts as the viewpoint character. Thru him, we meet Zoe, then Jayne, both of whom are involved with the initial barroom brawl. Jayne at first refuses to help out, but in the end, he does. Later, he again steps in at the last moment and saves the day (when Mal is fighting Niska's head henchie--can't recall his name, if he ever had one). I think Jayne talks like a hard case, but is really a pussy cat inside. Well, relatively speaking, anyway. When they return to the ship, we meet every single character as Mal touches base with each. He talks with Wash, then we see him interact with River and Simon, then Book, then Inara, then Kaylee, . Makes sense as a leader and captain, and gives the audience the cliffnotes on each Firefly crew or passenger. 12 minutes into the episode, and we've "met" everyone, and it flows so well that those of us who saw Serenity first weren't humming and yawning, waiting for the exposition to end. I'd be interested in hearing how "The Train Job" played for those who saw it before Serenity. Some other observations> During the barroom brawl we learn a ton about Mal, Zoe, and Jayne. Mal's got issues, Zoe and Mal are more than just a tight team, and Jayne is apolitical-didn't even know what day it was. Niska really really really reminded me of Olivier as the Nazi dentist from Marathon Man. And that's before ever seeing.....<spoiler> Is Mal intellectually dishonest? He doesn't require Niska to tell him about the cargo being heisted, and feel morally okay with taking the job on those terms. Yet later, he has this solemn exchange with the sherriff, and his line makes it seem as if he allows for no shades of gray. In the scene with Book and Inara, he makes it clear she is respectable, and wonders what she's doing on Firefly. Which turns the audience expectations around, since her profession as a companion has been equated as prostitution by Mal. Clearly, Mal is from a backward planet, and since he's our POV, so are we. When Inara tells Book she prays for Mal, but doesn't tell him, we learn she really cares for Mal, it's more evidence she's moral/respectable, and she's practical. River's "Two-by-two; hands-of-blue." very creepy. I can't think of any blue hands connections at the moment. I loved the casual, non-sexist assumption by the sherriff. "You a miner? Either of you?" as he looks from Mal to Zoe. Book refers to Inara again as respectable, as he presents his plan to rescue Mal and Zoe from Paradisio using her respectability. We learn the socio-political-economic backdrop includes indentured servitude.
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Post by raenstorm on Jul 7, 2004 12:17:15 GMT -5
<snip>River's "Two-by-two; hands-of-blue." very creepy. I can't think of any blue hands connections at the moment. <snip> I also can't think of a connection to blue hands but their hands are blue because they are wearing blue rubber gloves. I wondered if it is more about the gloves than about the color. River sees them as blue hands because they are always wearing the gloves when handling her but what kind of statement does it make about these men that they are suits (who we assume to be part of the Alliance) who wear gloves when handling River and the matter of her disappearance (since they are wearing the gloves when just showing the Feds her picture)? Do they always wear these gloves? Is it about not getting their hands "dirty" or is there more to it?
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Post by Karen on Jul 10, 2004 11:20:41 GMT -5
More random thoughts bubbling up through the swiss cheese that is what I laughingly call a brain. * Some fine examples of Mal just trying to get through this moment while Zoe is seeing the big picture and not being very happy with it. For example, when they get on the train and see all the Alliance guards and Mal is all giddy at stealing stuff right under their noses. Plus, it's just one of those all time great funny scenes. To me, these lines rank right up there with the "Take me, sir. Take me hard" ones. As Rae said, it's just so LOL! * Kaylee is just so happy and perky while she's setting up the cable to lower Jayne on to the train. I love the look on her face and the sound of her voice when Simon asks her "what are we doing" and she says "Crime!" Watching the scene this time, I also definitely got a jealous vibe off of Jayne when he comes up and interupts her and Simon. Like the way he says Simon is "all rich and fanciful". And "time for some thrilling heroics" is said sarcastically, but . . . . * Other Jayne thought about that scene. Does Jayne really believe that Mal would sell Simon and River to the Alliance? 'Cuz I didn't get a sense that he was just saying that to Kaylee to bug her. I got the feeling he really thought it was possible. Which puts an interesting spin on Jayne's later actions.I had the same thought this morning! So maybe he was trying to either one-up Mal, or be like he thought Mal was like. Because of Mal's current "reputation", most people would think that Mal was only out for the money - being a thief and all. "We're thieves, but we're not thieves." LOL! Cool. I'll look for that now. Along with the hats. Do goofy hats = evil? I was struck in the episode with how the train from the inside looked all old and Western (light shining thru the sides to the inside made them look like cattle cars), but from above and looking down, the train zips along at futuristic speed. When I first saw this episode, it was on TV, as the first episode. I was confused for a good long time about the interactions between the characters. For me, it didn't work so well as the "pilot" episode. Other thoughts about "reputation" and how people are perceived are conjeeling (sp?), but I have to run and do some rl stuff. I think Mal realized when he first met Niska that that's not who he wanted to be partners with.
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Post by Karen on Jul 10, 2004 11:22:58 GMT -5
I also can't think of a connection to blue hands but their hands are blue because they are wearing blue rubber gloves. I wondered if it is more about the gloves than about the color. River sees them as blue hands because they are always wearing the gloves when handling her but what kind of statement does it make about these men that they are suits (who we assume to be part of the Alliance) who wear gloves when handling River and the matter of her disappearance (since they are wearing the gloves when just showing the Feds her picture)? Do they always wear these gloves? Is it about not getting their hands "dirty" or is there more to it? Blue hands = cold hands. Impersonal. Able to inflict pain, but not feel it? And I agree - not wanting to get their hands dirty. And very, very creapy visual.
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Post by Queen E on Jul 10, 2004 14:06:17 GMT -5
Blue hands = cold hands. Impersonal. Able to inflict pain, but not feel it? And I agree - not wanting to get their hands dirty. And very, very creapy visual. Also the Blue Man Group, which is at least half demon, according to Angel.
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Post by Lola m on Jul 13, 2004 15:08:03 GMT -5
Sara - loved your review! And I'm not just saying that because we seem to be sharing a brain regarding this ep. (Ok, I'm partly saying that because you said a lot of stuff I thought, too, but only partly! ;D )
Re-watching this ep recently, I found I noticed more of the "little" things that were in the original pilot that couldn't be fit into the smaller one hour "more upbeat" episode. Obviously the reavers. But also things like food as a sought after and prized commodity or Simon at his most mysterious/elegantly aloof.
I enjoyed your examples of how the character of Mal was presented differently from "Serenity". I had gone looking for examples of this after listening to Joss and Tim's commentary about having to "re-do" the opening show, but certainly hadn't noticed all that you pointed out.
But most of all, I love your parting shot.
And I didn't even know about all the changes and altered pilot until the very end of the series. I just remember watching this "first show" and thinking that it was very good, but some things seemed a little "off" for a Joss show. Seeing the real pilot at the end was just so . . . heartbreaking. Lovely, but heartbreaking.
Thanks again for your thoughtful review, Sara!
Lola
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jul 15, 2004 18:55:02 GMT -5
Sara, I finally read your review of the Train Job - yes, a BIT late, but enjoyed it none the less - you have a great style, very clear, and its also clear you love the show and characters, which makes it even better. I'll look forward to your continuing reviews of Firefly, and thank you for writing them!
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Post by Linda on Aug 25, 2004 15:12:25 GMT -5
Hi Sara! I'm only now catching up with your reviews. So I just wanted to tell you: Excellent review! And Eetah! Joss & Tim Minear did a pretty good job of creating a second pilot episode on the fly. Your review makes me look forward to seeing what Joss is going to do for the movie in April. He'll have to (re)introduce his people and their situation all over again. I can't wait to see what he'll do with more time and money at his disposal. And, more importantly, a lack of corporate interference. And probably a lot more cussing. And not just in Chinese, either. Oooh, and maybe more nekkidness. Mmmmm.... April 22, 2005. April 22, 2005. April 22, 2005. Regarding Mal's butt getting kicked in Chinese checkers: the scene struck me as an echo of the pilot episode's Badger scene. Especially the comment "I live on the edge" which brought to my mind the exchange: Mal: The wheel never stops turning. Badger: That only matters to the people on the rim. Except that Mal's butt got kicked by Zoe and not some outsider, which would be a little more palatable to the network suits. Stupid suits. April 22, 2005. April 22, 2005. April 22, 2005. I was wondering about the bar fight, however. What does it mean that just when they were about to get slaughtered (literally), instead of being abandoned and betrayed, Serenity makes her grand air-supportive entrance? It's exactly the opposite of what happened in Serenity Valley. What is Joss trying to say here? I can't believe that he would go back on his original premise. Did the suits ask for it? Was he trying to say that family won't turn its back on you the way the government and god seemed to? Was he trying to put himself into the proper mindset for a lighter show? I really don't know. I was just wondering if anyone else had any ideas about it. In any case, thanks Sara, for your great review. Linda, April 22, 2005. April 22, 2005. April 22, 2005. P.S. www.soulfulspike.com/membersavatars/smileys/badrazz.gif[/img] to Fox.
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Post by Linda on Aug 25, 2004 15:34:40 GMT -5
Hi all! Just a personal opinion, so please feel free to skip. I've been thinking about this episode. I caught it when it was first run on Fox. And I was kinda "meh" about it. I thought it was well done. And there were the expected Joss funnies in it. But I wasn't pulled in by the characters right away, which is what I was expecting. I think the reason for this was that I didn't quite get the feel of what they all cared about. We never got the look in Mal's eyes when his ideals betrayed him. We never got the sense of overheard intimacy between Wash and Zoe. We never got Jayne's temptation scene (or his observing Kaylee's surgery scene). We never got Kaylee's "That's my good girl." We never got Simon's facing down Mal and Dobson for River's sake. We never got Book's and Inara's benediction scene. For the most part, there were a few echoes of these things in this second pilot, but, I know I would have been pulled into the lives of these characters so much more quickly if the stupid network suits had let the original pilot stand. Linda, April 22, 2005, April 22, 2005, April 22, 2005 P.S. www.soulfulspike.com/membersavatars/smileys/badrazz.gif[/img] to Fox.
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Post by Pixi on Jun 21, 2005 11:19:25 GMT -5
The opening scene is one of my faves in this show. I love the way the ship comes up from beneath the cliff behind Mal, Zoe, & Jayne. "I'm thinking we'll rise again." Plus, I love the bar fight in this space/sci-fi show. Jayne, as usual, doesn't fight for any cause that isn't his own. Really setting the stage for the fact that he's only loyal to himself. That's sure to cause problems in the future. LOL - "Are you getting my wife in trouble?" Book asks why Mal is allowing Simon and River to stay on the ship. He doesn't answer and I think I agree with Book. He may not actually be sure why he feels compelled to help them. Of course, as we see at the end of this episode, there are just some things he doesn't see as a choice and this may be one of them. Or, is Jayne right when he says, "Captain's got a move he ain't made yet. You'll see." (Not that I think Jayne really understands Mal.) I just love the way he says, "Were there monkeys?" It cracks me up every time. Then, followed by, "Have you got time to do my hair?" at the end of that scene. I love the combo of Mal, Inara, and Kaylee. Something I really like about the sets and 'feel' of Firefly is the mix of space & simple Earth things. For instance, the tiffany lamp on the desk of the spaceship and then being able to see it's reflection in the background when looking at the digital map. It's such a blending of things and it's more how I picture the future. Joss isn't trying to reinvent the world in the future, he's trying to show that the old world is still there with all the advancements we've made. Another quote I like, "He's not the first psycho to hire us nor the last. You think that's a commentary on us?" Another question re-raised in this episode is why does Inara 'sail' with them? Is it her connection with Mal or is there another reason that isn't apparent to us yet? LOL! "Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing." Oh Rae - you totally picked up on something that immediately struck me too. I loved the Tiffany lamp. It was perfect. I'm sending a bravo out to the set designer. And if it was Joss - my God man is there anything you can't do? Seriously - are you like a hellgod from another dimension or something? Mal: And Kaylee, what the hell's goin' on in the engine room? Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose? I love this! Hee, hee, hee. Run, run - there are terrifying space monkeys on board. Hide the woman and bannanas. Okay -so sometimes I just amuse myself if I'm bored.
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Post by Pixi on Jun 21, 2005 11:21:46 GMT -5
I agree about the opening scene - although at first it was straight out of Star Trek, except that the dancing girl wasn't green. "I think we'll rise again" - shades of the Civil War, again. I love the fight, for the mixing of the usual great fight choreography with the little realistic details - like Zoe flinging dirt in the eyes of her opponent. "You're servicing crew now?" "In your lonely, pathetic dreams." About praying for Mal: "Don't tell him - I never do." There's lots of people not knowing what their function is in this episode - Book, Simon, and Inara (internally) all wonder what they can do, if anything to help with the train job, and it reflects their wondering what role they play on Serenity at all. Interesting that two of the three of them wind up being absolutely essential to the successful outcome of the story. I love the end - the guy refuses to do as he's told, gives a long-winded speech, and in classic Joss style, is kicked into an exhaust port. NEXT! I agree about the Star Trek scene but I think ever since Star Wars there is a mandatory requirement for a bar room scene complete with dancing girls and colorful aliens. I think they put it in the contract. The ending was great! Plus the next guy all babbling and almost drooling in his effort to accept the offer. Hee, hee, hee.
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Post by Pixi on Jun 21, 2005 11:24:37 GMT -5
Few more random thoughts: Noticed nice little touches that show Jayne is actually rather good at his job. Granted, that job is basically just shooting and heavy lifting, but he does it well. Like when they are at Niska's place, Mal and Zoe both take the bait and look over at the door where the guy is hanging, but Jayne keeps his eyes right on Niska. 'Cuz that's where the danger is. And of course there is the great bit where he shoots the henchman (Crow?) even though he is all drugged up. Now, I don't think Joss is trying to say Jayne is suddenly become a "good guy" and wants to bring the drugs back or anything. I think it's just showing Jayne is good at what he is hired to do. Plus, I love the little grin between him and Mal on the train as they're getting the stuff. Shows that both of them are having fun, shows one of their similarities. Loved both of the instances of River talking about the blue handed alliance guys - the "two by two, hands of blue" lines. Because they had her say the line when she is first "awake" and was dreaming / remembering the stuff the alliance did to her, I was more prepared to understand her words when she says it again at the end of the ep. And then, right after we see her huddled in her room saying it again, we get a quick cut right to the blue hand guys. Makes the scene with them much more creepy. Lola Good point about Jayne. And then we do find out later that Jayne is indeed great at his job. The hands of blue guys reminded me of the Gentlemen. Seriously creepy.
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Post by Pixi on Jun 21, 2005 11:36:53 GMT -5
Blue hands = cold hands. Impersonal. Able to inflict pain, but not feel it? And I agree - not wanting to get their hands dirty. And very, very creapy visual. Also the Blue Man Group, which is at least half demon, according to Angel. Hee, hee.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 21, 2005 20:55:42 GMT -5
The opening scene is one of my faves in this show. I love the way the ship comes up from beneath the cliff behind Mal, Zoe, & Jayne. "I'm thinking we'll rise again." Plus, I love the bar fight in this space/sci-fi show. Jayne, as usual, doesn't fight for any cause that isn't his own. Really setting the stage for the fact that he's only loyal to himself. That's sure to cause problems in the future. LOL - "Are you getting my wife in trouble?" Book asks why Mal is allowing Simon and River to stay on the ship. He doesn't answer and I think I agree with Book. He may not actually be sure why he feels compelled to help them. Of course, as we see at the end of this episode, there are just some things he doesn't see as a choice and this may be one of them. Or, is Jayne right when he says, "Captain's got a move he ain't made yet. You'll see." (Not that I think Jayne really understands Mal.) I just love the way he says, "Were there monkeys?" It cracks me up every time. Then, followed by, "Have you got time to do my hair?" at the end of that scene. I love the combo of Mal, Inara, and Kaylee. Something I really like about the sets and 'feel' of Firefly is the mix of space & simple Earth things. For instance, the tiffany lamp on the desk of the spaceship and then being able to see it's reflection in the background when looking at the digital map. It's such a blending of things and it's more how I picture the future. Joss isn't trying to reinvent the world in the future, he's trying to show that the old world is still there with all the advancements we've made. Another quote I like, "He's not the first psycho to hire us nor the last. You think that's a commentary on us?" Another question re-raised in this episode is why does Inara 'sail' with them? Is it her connection with Mal or is there another reason that isn't apparent to us yet? LOL! "Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing." Oh Rae - you totally picked up on something that immediately struck me too. I loved the Tiffany lamp. It was perfect. I'm sending a bravo out to the set designer. And if it was Joss - my God man is there anything you can't do? Seriously - are you like a hellgod from another dimension or something? Mal: And Kaylee, what the hell's goin' on in the engine room? Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose? I love this! Hee, hee, hee. Run, run - there are terrifying space monkeys on board. Hide the woman and bannanas. Okay -so sometimes I just amuse myself if I'm bored. Agreeing with you on the monkeys. ;D But also on the admiration for Joss and the stunning level of detail in his shows. The "look" is just so perfect on Firefly. All the details just make you feel like you are IN that 'verse!
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