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Post by Karen on Jul 13, 2004 8:07:49 GMT -5
Okay, then: - The opening scene has been discussed a lot, but for me what was interesting was who wasn't playing, and who was. Simon and River weren't playing, which wasn't really a surprise; they're not part of the gang yet. Don't quite fit in. Inara also doesn't play; does this show yet again that she's not really integrated with the rest of the crew? On the other hand, Book IS playing. He's only been on Serenity as long as Simon, but he's managed to integrate. This is also shown later, when Simon doesn't trust Mal, but Book tells him not to be a fool - he knows he can trust his captain. - The whole derelict-exploration scene is very "Aliens". There's the dark ship, the flashing emergency lights, colonists hung up dead, and the one survivor who's got to be pulled bodily from a tunnel after scaring the bejeezus out of everyone. - "You'll scare the women." My take - Zoe doesn't see herself as a woman, primarily. She sees herself as a soldier, first, and not a whole lot else, much of the time. Moreover, she has the stereotypical male role much of the time in her marriage - she's more physically imposing than Wash, more forceful, and then there's the whole, "Not now, dear." Hmm. - Interesting cutaway during the interrogation: from Inara talking about Mal to Zoe talking about Wash: "Do you love him?" Well, yeah, on both sides, I think. - The big thing, though, was this: When you're out, nearly alone, on the fringes of the explored universe, you can become where you are. Space gets to you - you can become empty and dark. . .and this is what happened to the Reavers. But it's more than that. . .you don't become completely empty. There's something already in there, something awful and animal that will fill the vacuum that space leaves behind. That's what was meant by "open you up and see what's inside". The point was that the Reaver was already in the boy - he just needed everything else to be emptied out in order for us to see it. And so it is with the Reavers, too?Yep. It's a recurring theme thruout the series. With River - what the Blue Hands Group did to her - what was left has filled her psyche. When each of the characters are tested, we actually see who they are. Great insight, Rachael! I like how this ties in with how Serenity becomes an anchor for the crew and passengers. It keeps them from being emptied by the nothingness of space. And Joss has done a good job (as Patti and Vlad noted) of pulling us into Serenity and making us feel like a part of the crew. (I just love Serenity.) Rae noted that to be bushwacked means to be ambushed from a place of concealment - attacked suddenly. So - kind of like life. Another theme I noticed that Joss likes to play with. Kind of "life is what happens to you when you're making other plans." (thanks J. Lennon). And the reavers - they left a survivor - to tell the tale - or in this case - to show and tell. They are barbaric, almost inhuman, but they are men. Do they seem "bigger" because they are unseen? I think their reputation is justified. But they also use fear to enhance their position. The crew and passengers of the doomed ship acted like "cattle" going to the slaughter. Why didn't they fight back? Were they so obsolutely terrified that they were unable to? I loved how everyone obeyed Mal when he was urgent. There was no argument from anyone when he got his "dad" voice on. Even Jayne. They totally trust him. I noticed Inara's calmness when confronted by danger. I think showing her writing fancy Chinese script was meant to convey her inner calm. Is that her true self? Love the insights about "civilization", Nicki. What is it about being away from your "roots" that allows you to "let loose"? It takes strength to hold it together. I loved the contrast shown between River and Simon (children, Mal called them). River loved being in space because she couldn't "feel" the pain coming from everyone out there. How freeing do you think that felt to her? "When can we go again?" Simon doesn't understand the appeal. The interrogation scenes had me cracking up. Jayne not talking. Wash talking too much. But all loyal to Mal, and River and Simon. Inara so self-assured. Zoe - belligerent. And we only got 13 episodes?
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Post by Lola m on Jul 13, 2004 19:53:28 GMT -5
Another favorite part of mine? The "no dialog" scenes with each group doing what they needed to do. Getting the bodies down and then having a "funeral" for them, getting the loot, defusing the reaver booby trab. Each group quietly taking care of the things they needed to do.
Like the quiet space break-in scene in "Serenity" right after the battle.
Lola
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Post by Linda on Jul 13, 2004 20:57:25 GMT -5
Hi all! Love reading the insights so far. I watched the ep late last night and had absolutely no braincells left for anything except: Jayne was wearing a Blue Sun tank top. What was up with that? Umm, and I haven't noticed anyone answer the following: <snipped for space> Questions I have: What was INara writing in chinese while the crew was dismantling the bomb and taking care of the bodies? Was it just some form of poetry...a way for her to relax when she didn't have a "role" to play in what was going on? Or was it something more. I have long held that Inara had a true mystery around her, that she was indeed more than she aknowledged, much in the way that Book seems to be. <snipped for space> Vlad A friend of mine forwarded the following URL re: Firefly Chinese translations: fireflychinese.home.att.net/visible.htmlAccording to the website, Inara seems to just be practicing her calligraphy, since the characters seem to deal with seasons and time. Of course, that could be significant Josswise. My brain hasn't made the connection, though. Linda, not caught up, but posting from work because that's where the URL was...
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Post by Queen E on Jul 13, 2004 21:13:01 GMT -5
Hi all! Love reading the insights so far. I watched the ep late last night and had absolutely no braincells left for anything except: Jayne was wearing a Blue Sun tank top. What was up with that? Umm, and I haven't noticed anyone answer the following: A friend of mine forwarded the following URL re: Firefly Chinese translations: fireflychinese.home.att.net/visible.htmlAccording to the website, Inara seems to just be practicing her calligraphy, since the characters seem to deal with seasons and time. Of course, that could be significant Josswise. My brain hasn't made the connection, though. Linda, not caught up, but posting from work because that's where the URL was... Oh, excellent! I'll check out that site. Thanks, Linda! As for the Blue Sun shirt, I have some theories, but I think I'll save them until we discuss "Ariel."
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Post by Linda on Jul 13, 2004 21:48:09 GMT -5
Okay, then: - The opening scene has been discussed a lot, but for me what was interesting was who wasn't playing, and who was. Simon and River weren't playing, which wasn't really a surprise; they're not part of the gang yet. Don't quite fit in. Inara also doesn't play; does this show yet again that she's not really integrated with the rest of the crew? On the other hand, Book IS playing. He's only been on Serenity as long as Simon, but he's managed to integrate. This is also shown later, when Simon doesn't trust Mal, but Book tells him not to be a fool - he knows he can trust his captain. - The whole derelict-exploration scene is very "Aliens". There's the dark ship, the flashing emergency lights, colonists hung up dead, and the one survivor who's got to be pulled bodily from a tunnel after scaring the bejeezus out of everyone. - "You'll scare the women." My take - Zoe doesn't see herself as a woman, primarily. She sees herself as a soldier, first, and not a whole lot else, much of the time. Moreover, she has the stereotypical male role much of the time in her marriage - she's more physically imposing than Wash, more forceful, and then there's the whole, "Not now, dear." Hmm. - Interesting cutaway during the interrogation: from Inara talking about Mal to Zoe talking about Wash: "Do you love him?" Well, yeah, on both sides, I think. - The big thing, though, was this: When you're out, nearly alone, on the fringes of the explored universe, you can become where you are. Space gets to you - you can become empty and dark. . .and this is what happened to the Reavers. But it's more than that. . .you don't become completely empty. There's something already in there, something awful and animal that will fill the vacuum that space leaves behind. That's what was meant by "open you up and see what's inside". The point was that the Reaver was already in the boy - he just needed everything else to be emptied out in order for us to see it. And so it is with the Reavers, too? Cool. I like your observations. Your last point made my brain go off on a tangent... kinda once removed, so bear with me... The interrogation sequence was interspersed with shots of Serenity as Inara, Zoe, Wash, Jayne, Kaylee & Book were being questioned. Like a visual illustration of their characters and what they considered to be their home. As Inara was being interviewed, they showed shots of her shuttle, including the luxurious bed (comfort, pleasure, rest?) and the practical control room. As Zoe & Wash were being interviewed, they showed their room, including a trinket box (Zoe compartmentalized?) and Wash's little plastic dinosaur (kid-like? pre-historic/old-fashioned?). As Jayne was being asked questions he didn't bother to answer they showed his personal weapons arsenal. When Kaylee was going on about what a junker REALLY is, they had a shot of the hallways (perhaps the whole ship is her home?). Book's interview led to a shot of the dining area (community & sustenance?). You bigger brains can probably find more insight that I did. OK, the reason why my brain went off onto this tangent in the first place was that River seemed to find space to be homey. She was happy at the sight of it. She didn't see it as scary/empty at all. Perhaps her enhanced mind could encompass what was there, rather than only see the near-emptiness of it. Simon, by contrast, feared it. He clung to the ship for safety. Significantly, I think, he was stuck outside for this home/character juxtaposition sequence. I don't recall any Serenity shot associated with Mal for his interview. I dunno exactly what that signifies, however, as braincells are sputtering right now. Oh, and I think it was deliberate that Mal's Alliance handcuffs (civilized restraints?) were key in his being able to kill Eugene Toombs, errr, I mean the Reaver kid. Civilization is unnecessarily binding & inconvenient at times, but it can be occasionally useful, especially in regards to the Reaverness. And kinda neat that Mal could turn something so disadvantageous into an asset. Linda, still at work. (Pththbthtthtbth.)
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Post by KMInfinity on Jul 14, 2004 6:57:38 GMT -5
I am really enjoying all of the insights everyone is sharing. It's so much fun watching and being able to discuss. Okay, then: - The big thing, though, was this: When you're out, nearly alone, on the fringes of the explored universe, you can become where you are. Space gets to you - you can become empty and dark. . .and this is what happened to the Reavers. But it's more than that. . .you don't become completely empty. There's something already in there, something awful and animal that will fill the vacuum that space leaves behind. That's what was meant by "open you up and see what's inside". The point was that the Reaver was already in the boy - he just needed everything else to be emptied out in order for us to see it. And so it is with the Reavers, too? Great analysis Rachael. This means, then that each person has the potential to be a Reaver. The one thing that is still playing around in my mind - what exactly is a Reaver and how does one become one? The show suggests that contact with the Reavers leads to becoming them-through loss of faith/despair/etc? One's humanity is stripped away and leaves....? Does this always happen? Can some withstand the Reaver "call" and so are the ones killed? Can a Reaver be redeemed? Given all of the evil throughout time and space, what makes the Reavers uniquely Reavers? Too bad we'll never see those shows that would address these questions.
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Post by Lola m on Jul 14, 2004 10:27:13 GMT -5
<snipped for space> The interrogation sequence was interspersed with shots of Serenity as Inara, Zoe, Wash, Jayne, Kaylee & Book were being questioned. Like a visual illustration of their characters and what they considered to be their home. As Inara was being interviewed, they showed shots of her shuttle, including the luxurious bed (comfort, pleasure, rest?) and the practical control room. As Zoe & Wash were being interviewed, they showed their room, including a trinket box (Zoe compartmentalized?) and Wash's little plastic dinosaur (kid-like? pre-historic/old-fashioned?). As Jayne was being asked questions he didn't bother to answer they showed his personal weapons arsenal. When Kaylee was going on about what a junker REALLY is, they had a shot of the hallways (perhaps the whole ship is her home?). Book's interview led to a shot of the dining area (community & sustenance?). You bigger brains can probably find more insight that I did. That's such a cool observation! I love the entire series of interregation scenes, but I hadn't noticed the significance of the intercut scenes. I do love how Joss uses his scene cuts to make funny interactions between lines. Someone already mentioned the one where Zoe is saying "we're very private people" and next up is Wash, going on about her legs and the place right above her legs. LOL. But I also loved how Inara is first and at end of her session, we hear the interviewer say "you love him" - then jump to Zoe because it was really a question about her loving Wash. But the placemen first makes us think about the idea of Inara loving Mal. And then Zoe's response at first makes us think of her and Mal before we learn she is talking about her husband. Clever multiple uses for that single line. Loved how the poor interviewer looks so dazed when Kaylee is going on and on about what would constitute real "junk". And Jayne is so perfectly him - just sitting there smirking at the guy, not saying a word. Interesting insight about River's mind being able to handle the vastness of space. Lola
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Post by Sara on Jul 16, 2004 8:04:20 GMT -5
Since I'm a big ol' egomaniac, I wanted to share some of the stuff I wrote down when taking notes but didn't manage to work into my review. [/li][li] The first thing we see when the abandoned ship is opened up is a tricycle and a brightly-colored ball. Subsequently most any time we see color, it's associated with the former occupants: the food, toys, the chest and doll Zoe finds within. Everything else, including the bodies, is washed-out and drag. [/li][li] Jayne's practical joke on Simon could almost be considered a form of hazing, part of Simon's becoming a member of the crew. And while Mal's amused, he does nothing to encourage Jayne's behavior either. [/li][li] The scenes outside the infirmary after the survivor is first brought on board sum up so many characters in a nutshell: Kaylee thinks the best of the situation, Jayne assumes the worst, and Zoe demonstrates absolute faith in Mal and his judgement. [/li][li] Weighing in on the debate, I think Zoe's "you'll scare the women" was her way of trying to defuse Jayne's growing hysteria and make him realize he's starting to spin a little out of control. I suspect she played on the stereotype to essentially say, "suck it up a little and be a "man" about what's going on." [/li][li] Does Mal use doing good (checking for survivors, caring for the dead) as a cover for more practical matters (scavenging valuables, dealing with the booby trap), or is it the other way around? I'm not sure even he knows for certain--I sure as hell don't. But it's interesting that we see a smile of approval flicker over Zoe's face after his words about giving the people a chance at finding some sort of peace; I suspect she believed he was sincere. [/li][li] Interesting that Simon steps in--offering to deal with the bodies--where Jayne initially refused to go. A subtle "in your face," perhaps? [/li][li] When Simon, Book and Jayne return with the cargo Zoe puts a friendly hand on Simon's shoulder as he passes by--further evidence the crew is starting to accept him as one of their own. [/li][li] Love how Wash had his hands up in the classic "don't shoot" pose when the Alliance boarded. [/li][li] Kaylee refers to the Alliance guy as a "purple belly." Wonder what that's about? I don't remember hearing this phrase used later on in the series. And I'm sure I've still left something out, but if so you know I'll be back...
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Post by William the Bloody on Jul 17, 2004 0:54:47 GMT -5
[/li][li] Kaylee refers to the Alliance guy as a "purple belly." Wonder what that's about? I don't remember hearing this phrase used later on in the series. [/quote] During the US Civil War, the Rebels frequently used the term "blue bellies" to refer to Yankee soldiers, I assume because of their blue uniforms. Since Joss was very upfront about his inspiration for Firefly being the Civil War and it's aftermath, this homage doesnt surprise me at all. Also, I would like to mention that purple is frequently considered an "imperial" color. It was used in Rome to signify such. I see the Alliance as an imperial type state, equivilant to Rome, wanting to bring all its territories (and more) under a central rule. I also don't recall the term being used later in the series but from now on I will be listening for it. Vlad
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Post by Lola m on Jul 19, 2004 5:59:45 GMT -5
Wow! Another share-the-brain moment. Except you got the smarter part.
I also see this episode as the "other half" of the second pilot. It adds those elements from Serenity that were missing from The Train Job. In addition to the stuff you mentioned it including, I also see it as a chance to give us a real feel for Serenity the ship, moving around her, her various nooks and crannies. And it also gives much more of that feeling of being in space - something we didn't get as much of with the Train Job being fairly heavy on land-bound scenes.
I really liked your thoughts about Mal's understanding of what was going on. I had noted several times how Mal is the first one (except perhaps for River) to figure out what is going on. He realizes the people never left the ship; he realizes what the survivor must have seen; he realizes that the guy is gonna attack and ultimately that he has to be killed. I hadn't really put all the "whys" together. But you are right. Put in context with what the Alliance guy says about war experiences and it makes a lot of sense.
The contrast of River and the survivor - one unable to feel, one feeling too much - excellent description.
Excellent analysis all 'round, Sara. Thanks!!
Lola
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Post by Sara on Jul 19, 2004 7:45:12 GMT -5
Wow! Another share-the-brain moment. Except you got the smarter part. I also see this episode as the "other half" of the second pilot. It adds those elements from Serenity that were missing from The Train Job. In addition to the stuff you mentioned it including, I also see it as a chance to give us a real feel for Serenity the ship, moving around her, her various nooks and crannies. And it also gives much more of that feeling of being in space - something we didn't get as much of with the Train Job being fairly heavy on land-bound scenes. I really liked your thoughts about Mal's understanding of what was going on. I had noted several times how Mal is the first one (except perhaps for River) to figure out what is going on. He realizes the people never left the ship; he realizes what the survivor must have seen; he realizes that the guy is gonna attack and ultimately that he has to be killed. I hadn't really put all the "whys" together. But you are right. Put in context with what the Alliance guy says about war experiences and it makes a lot of sense. The contrast of River and the survivor - one unable to feel, one feeling too much - excellent description. Excellent analysis all 'round, Sara. Thanks!! Lola Thank you again for the kind words, Lola. And I wanted to be sure you knew that I am in fact not stealing your ideas--I restrain myself from reading the discussion here before I review an episode so I can feel somewhat confident my opinions are my own. Otherwise I'd probably end up writing some sort of amalgam of other people's thoughts while being too lazy to come up with anything from my own head. As I noted I did skim "Bushwhacked" briefly, but it was before you'd posted anything. Anyway, I didn't want you to start thinking the worst. Looks like it's just your average case of brain sharing, which seems to be turning out pretty well for me so far. I'm not sure what kind of benefit you're getting, though...
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Post by Lola runninig by on Jul 19, 2004 8:36:47 GMT -5
Thank you again for the kind words, Lola. And I wanted to be sure you knew that I am in fact not stealing your ideas--I restrain myself from reading the discussion here before I review an episode so I can feel somewhat confident my opinions are my own. Otherwise I'd probably end up writing some sort of amalgam of other people's thoughts while being too lazy to come up with anything from my own head. As I noted I did skim "Bushwhacked" briefly, but it was before you'd posted anything. Anyway, I didn't want you to start thinking the worst. Looks like it's just your average case of brain sharing, which seems to be turning out pretty well for me so far. I'm not sure what kind of benefit you're getting, though... LOL! Gosh, would never have dawned on me to think of you "taking" ideas. I'm just always marginally impressed with myself whenever I can figure out some of the same stuff that others are seeing. And if I can explain myself in some semi-understandable form, even better! I gotta admit, I am sort of amazed by you guys that do this every week. I think my brain would fall off if I had to come up with a whole organized analysis - complete with larger themes and so on. So often I am just sitting here bleating "eetah, eetah" like one of Illyria's sheep. That sounds kinda smarmy, I know, but I'm really not being all kiss-assey "ah shucks" here. I honestly don't know how you and Nan and Spring and Erin can be so consistently . . . can't think of a better word, but analytical - thorough or . . . deep, I guess? Although I think watching and discussing all my babbly thoughts on the board here is sharpening my brain a bit. Being forced to actually put your ideas into words is probably a good thing. I feel like I make at least a few more on-topic postings than when I first joined, but even more than that, I really think it is helping my "eye" - my ability to see larger themes and concepts. Although I can definitely tell that I am not as much of a visual person. I just don't notice color or design as much as say, becca can. Or, to use another example, my sister - who is an artist. In conversations with her it's interesting to note how much of her world is based on the visual, whereas I am more in touch with words. I think I like this brain exchange thing. Lola
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Post by Linda on Aug 30, 2004 4:58:45 GMT -5
Hi Sara!
Excellent review. Thanks for pointing out that this could be considered the second half of the second pilot episode. The whole concept went "click!" in my brain. Eetah with everthing except maybe: Is it so wrong to let Joss near scalpels if he's in a room with the Network Suits? I picture a Darla & Dru & lawyers-in-the-basement-type scenario. I'm sure Tim Minear would be willing to help...
And EEETAH! with everything Lola-running-by said. I don't know how you and Erin & Spring and Nan do these reviews so well so consistently.
And thanks for highlighting the close connection between River and the Reaver. I especially liked:
Because of this point, I noticed upon this viewing that River always had someone nearby when she woke up screaming: Simon the first time and Inara the next. Perhaps one of the necessary ingredients to maintaining a sense of empathy would be being with people who care about you. It's a comforting thought and a scary one. Would River have eventually become a Reaver if Simon hadn't rescued her?
Ooh and thanks as well for the name of the Alliance Commander. I never caught that his name was "Harken." It was entirely fitting because he did listen to Mal. I think that he and Mal understood each other very well. The only time that Mal seemed surprised by a response from him was when Harken was under the impression that Mal had tortured the Reaver victim. At that point Mal hadn't realized that the Reaver had already begun to mutilate himself. The last shot of the episode was the destruction of the transport ship. The guy may not have let Mal have his illegal salvage, but he accepted his advice. He listened. Well, yeah, ok, Mal saved his life. But that still doesn't guarantee that you will respect someone's opinion enough to follow it. And many another Commander would have chosen to blame Mal and Serenity for all of the deaths.
Sara, thanks for the great review.
Linda, Shindig next! Hee!
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Post by Pixi on Jun 21, 2005 12:01:59 GMT -5
They're very sensible to show the effects of the Reavers and not the Reavers themselves. What's unseen and imagined is always scarier than what's seen. That the Survivor mutilates himself is more effective than whatever appearance the Reavers display. Okay - I'm a sucker for scary in space stories ever since the first Alien. So I was immediately on board with the scary. True - it started all traditional - I was having flashbacks to Wrath of Khan (how weird is it that I now want to write VM's Wrath of Con instead of Star Treks?) and the landing on the space station after Khan had killed almost everyone looking for Genesis. Up to and including the bodies hanging from the ceiling. Put I still bought the scary. And I agree with you Nan - by not showing the Reavers, the imagination is leaping around wondering, wondering. Two scaryass villains - the unseen Reavers and the Blue-gloved men. Well done - I must say.
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Post by Pixi on Jun 21, 2005 12:03:56 GMT -5
Okay - I really, really love Wash.
Hee, hee on the:
Wash: Oh my god. What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing!? Oh right, that would be me.
and
Wash: What the [tyen shiao duh - "God knows what"] is going on in there? Zoe: Not now, dear.
Hee, hee.
Wash gets to fly every spaceship I'm on from now on.
Sorry Han, Sulu.
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