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Post by beccaelizabeth on Dec 18, 2006 12:31:36 GMT -5
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Post by Matthew on Dec 23, 2006 3:38:29 GMT -5
This one annoyed me. But had some good bits in. Why so on the annoyance? *honestly curious* And, while Owen still skeeves me out, I found it fascinating that he, the man who will use what amounts to a date-rape drug without a qualm was treating his "charge" with much more respect for her independence and status as a societal equal than Gwen was with hers: granted, Gwen had a less liberated woman to cope with, to start out. And while there's a gleeful little bit of me that is satisfied to see Owen fall like a ton of bricks, and lose his heart to a ramblin' (wo)man, it's also something that humanized him a lot to me. And god, but were they hot and steamy together. And he has fanTAStic taste in satin gowns. And Jack holding his guy's hand while he killed himself. So.....I don't know the words for it. Just.... done with dignity, when there was no way to talk him out of it: and Jack HATED to see him die, and envied it of him too, even with the "nothingness" he remembers from his death on the Platform. Whoosh. |
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Dec 25, 2006 0:13:40 GMT -5
This one annoyed me. But had some good bits in. Why so on the annoyance? *honestly curious* And, while Owen still skeeves me out, I found it fascinating that he, the man who will use what amounts to a date-rape drug without a qualm was treating his "charge" with much more respect for her independence and status as a societal equal than Gwen was with hers: granted, Gwen had a less liberated woman to cope with, to start out. And while there's a gleeful little bit of me that is satisfied to see Owen fall like a ton of bricks, and lose his heart to a ramblin' (wo)man, it's also something that humanized him a lot to me. And god, but were they hot and steamy together. And he has fanTAStic taste in satin gowns. And Jack holding his guy's hand while he killed himself. So.....I don't know the words for it. Just.... done with dignity, when there was no way to talk him out of it: and Jack HATED to see him die, and envied it of him too, even with the "nothingness" he remembers from his death on the Platform. Whoosh. yeah, see, that in red is what annoyed me. because I don't accept that. even in TV speed, there wasn't a hell of a lot of trying. I can buy that it was a consistent emotional moment for new unimproved emo!Jack, I just really don't like that the writers are going there. Because wrong. |
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Post by Onjel on Jan 8, 2007 22:40:49 GMT -5
So, Owen at the mercy of love. Love's bitch, eh? Personally, he does nothing for me so I'm wondering about the attraction he has for these women. He's a weaselly little guy who is too expedient for my tastes. Oh well, I'm kinda glad Diane chose to leave.
Emma made the right decision. I, too, thought Gwen was smothering her a bit, but as she was just a kid I can see why Gwen came on all maternal. Gwen is in for it with her boyfriend, that's for sure. I expect she won't react well to the Diane/Owen thing, either.
Jack and Allen. Man. What a final scene. I'm not going to comment on Jack letting Allen off himself and holding his hand, because while I have definite opinions on suicide I might violate some rules talking about them. So, I want to focus on Jack. I like the additional info on him. Spoken and shown. He was broken up by Allen's choice and even more so, I suspect, because he doesn't have Allen's choice. Sad, sad, sad.
I liked this ep. It didn't annoy me at all. And yes, the red satin gown was gorgeous. ;D
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Post by Queen E on Jan 16, 2007 23:10:53 GMT -5
So, Owen at the mercy of love. Love's bitch, eh? Personally, he does nothing for me so I'm wondering about the attraction he has for these women. He's a weaselly little guy who is too expedient for my tastes. Oh well, I'm kinda glad Diane chose to leave. Emma made the right decision. I, too, thought Gwen was smothering her a bit, but as she was just a kid I can see why Gwen came on all maternal. Gwen is in for it with her boyfriend, that's for sure. I expect she won't react well to the Diane/Owen thing, either. Jack and Allen. Man. What a final scene. I'm not going to comment on Jack letting Allen off himself and holding his hand, because while I have definite opinions on suicide I might violate some rules talking about them. So, I want to focus on Jack. I like the additional info on him. Spoken and shown. He was broken up by Allen's choice and even more so, I suspect, because he doesn't have Allen's choice. Sad, sad, sad. I liked this ep. It didn't annoy me at all. And yes, the red satin gown was gorgeous. ;D Yeah, that was hard to watch...I understand Becca's annoyance here, because it did seem like Jack didn't make that much of an effort to talk him out of it, but, the choice here seemed to be either let Allen die alone or be with him as he died. Allen, in some ways, is the slightly more nuanced version of the dad in The Idiot's Lantern; he is the old way, and the world is changing/has changed. It works better on a metaphorical level than it does on a reality level. |
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Post by Shan on Feb 4, 2007 14:08:33 GMT -5
So, Owen at the mercy of love. Love's bitch, eh? Personally, he does nothing for me so I'm wondering about the attraction he has for these women. He's a weaselly little guy who is too expedient for my tastes. Oh well, I'm kinda glad Diane chose to leave. Emma made the right decision. I, too, thought Gwen was smothering her a bit, but as she was just a kid I can see why Gwen came on all maternal. Gwen is in for it with her boyfriend, that's for sure. I expect she won't react well to the Diane/Owen thing, either. Jack and Allen. Man. What a final scene. I'm not going to comment on Jack letting Allen off himself and holding his hand, because while I have definite opinions on suicide I might violate some rules talking about them. So, I want to focus on Jack. I like the additional info on him. Spoken and shown. He was broken up by Allen's choice and even more so, I suspect, because he doesn't have Allen's choice. Sad, sad, sad. I liked this ep. It didn't annoy me at all. And yes, the red satin gown was gorgeous. ;D Yeah, that was hard to watch...I understand Becca's annoyance here, because it did seem like Jack didn't make that much of an effort to talk him out of it, but, the choice here seemed to be either let Allen die alone or be with him as he died. Allen, in some ways, is the slightly more nuanced version of the dad in The Idiot's Lantern; he is the old way, and the world is changing/has changed. It works better on a metaphorical level than it does on a reality level. The main point I got from how fast Jack capitulated in "allowing" Allen to die is that I don't think Jack HAD that much effort in him to try talking him out of it. Jack doesn't appear to have any personal reason to live, so how is he going to convince someone else, in very nearly the same situation, that there's something to look forward to? |
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Feb 8, 2007 7:43:39 GMT -5
Yeah, that was hard to watch...I understand Becca's annoyance here, because it did seem like Jack didn't make that much of an effort to talk him out of it, but, the choice here seemed to be either let Allen die alone or be with him as he died. Allen, in some ways, is the slightly more nuanced version of the dad in The Idiot's Lantern; he is the old way, and the world is changing/has changed. It works better on a metaphorical level than it does on a reality level. The main point I got from how fast Jack capitulated in "allowing" Allen to die is that I don't think Jack HAD that much effort in him to try talking him out of it. Jack doesn't appear to have any personal reason to live, so how is he going to convince someone else, in very nearly the same situation, that there's something to look forward to? exactly. plausible, yet annoying. |
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jun 19, 2007 17:23:43 GMT -5
1953.
So one of those fly through a cloud, fly to another time stories? Like on the Twilight Zone.
Are these historical figures?
Practice with the currency and money practice?
That's more than a little patronizing.
Of course, bananas are far more interesting.
Doctor Who ref?
Consumerism, yay!
Did you fall through time too?
Yes, Jack did, but not in the same way.
You expect equality and chivalry?
Of all the things for Owen to mention about women's rights, it's artificial insemination.
CheatingOwen, or do he and Gwen have an open relationship or are they over?
So Gwen is still with Rhys. OK.
GrownUpSon still misses his dad. Awww...
Gwen's lesson on sex.
Still a little condescending.
50s vintage is in.
Torchwood wants to keep tabs on them, or are they just not able to let go?
More about death.
Going the carbon monoxide route, while Jack watches next to him.
Wow.
God, Owen's got a major possessive streak.
All our time travelers slip away from Torchwood.
I feel for Jack some, Gwen less, and Owen not at all.
Tosh and Ianto were sensible and stayed out of it.
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Post by KMInfinity on Nov 11, 2007 16:53:38 GMT -5
See, I did accept the situation....My take on Jack's behavior in "allowing" Allen to die is that he knew it was useless to do anything. The line that made me accept it was Allen saying to Jack: Both sources have the character listed as John not Allen?  Captain Jack: I can’t leave you here.
John: Then we’ll wait. The sun will rise, we’ll have some breakfast, take a walk...
Captain Jack: Yes. A new day.
John: And I’ll suffer it all and smile and wag my tail and then, as soon as your back is turned, I’ll make sure I do it properly. Because I want to die. It wasn't an emotional statement made out of despair. It was a resolution, firm and definite. If jack tried to thwart it, he'd be causing more pain and would be unsuccessful to boot. Overall, I liked this episode, but this is the second in a row that focused more on the "outsiders" and not the Torchwood team... As a regular thing I think I'd grow to dislike that storytelling approach... |
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Post by Queen E on Nov 11, 2007 17:28:42 GMT -5
See, I did accept the situation....My take on Jack's behavior in "allowing" Allen to die is that he knew it was useless to do anything. The line that made me accept it was Allen saying to Jack: Both sources have the character listed as John not Allen? Captain Jack: I can’t leave you here.
John: Then we’ll wait. The sun will rise, we’ll have some breakfast, take a walk...
Captain Jack: Yes. A new day.
John: And I’ll suffer it all and smile and wag my tail and then, as soon as your back is turned, I’ll make sure I do it properly. Because I want to die. It wasn't an emotional statement made out of despair. It was a resolution, firm and definite. If jack tried to thwart it, he'd be causing more pain and would be unsuccessful to boot. Overall, I liked this episode, but this is the second in a row that focused more on the "outsiders" and not the Torchwood team... As a regular thing I think I'd grow to dislike that storytelling approach... "Random Shoes" and this episode stand out as really focusing "outside" Team Torchwood. Don't worry; the last three episodes are very tightly focused on the Hub, if you will. |
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Post by Rachael on Nov 11, 2007 21:47:45 GMT -5
Hrm. Not much to say on this one. Was sort of "meh", for me. Bored me a bit.
I did call the Diane situation, though. When Owen was all freaking out over his feelings for her, I totally got that - if someone's managed to get to his age without ever really falling in love, then it's going to both be less controlled ("young" love happens much faster, I think, than mature love), and be VERY scary to a person who's never felt it before. Someone like Owen would just panic and either become ultra-clingy or run away.
But as for Diane - she said, "I love you too," and Dave was all, "Okay, bad writing. I don't buy it. Not someone like her."
And I was all, "Did it occur to you she might not mean the same thing by it as he does?"
And then we come back from the break to find her gone, and a note left behind. Nope, she doesn't mean quite the same thing by it at all. It's important, in love affairs, to define the parameters of the word "love" for both people....
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Post by Lola m on Nov 13, 2007 8:41:29 GMT -5
Huh. So folks didn't care for this ep that much? I liked it - all the angsy over-the-topness and the excessively lush romance-y vibe. But I also don't have a problem with Jack staying with John as he killed himself. (Just my own personal opinion there, just don't have as much problem with the suicide story idea as others do.) I mean, yes, it was a bit "hit you over the head obvious" mirror / parallel between the two guys. But cool too. And the initial flirting and later attempt to connect more (Jack telling him more than he's told anyone other than Gwen) was kinda sweet. Sad, yes, but also sweet. I liked the mirroring angle over all, really. How each of the 3 TW folks got paired up with someone to compare themselves to. Gwen and her innocent who doesn't want to stay tied to her old safe life but wants to go and explore the new exciting world she's landed in, even if that means leaving the safe and comfortable people she's known. Owen scared to death by falling in love and who does he love? Someone who needs to be moving on, independent with their own vision of what's next for them in life. (Very much eetah with you on Diane, Rachael.) And then Jack, meeting up with a guy who's "out of time", who he immediately sees as another him (sort of right and sort of wrong he is about that), who wants to die and actually can, unlike Jack. And all the TW people latch on to these folks because they're new people they can interact with but who know about the TW world. Someone they can talk to - the lack of which is one of the main season themes. Which means that while the show was all about these "lost in time" people, it was really all about the TW folks. Potentially important to notice that the "out of time" people who succeeded were the ones to jump into life and possibilities. The one who couldn't let go of the past was the one who died. But YMMV of course.  |
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