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Post by Riff on Jan 2, 2007 13:12:31 GMT -5
Sometimes Narcissism can be taken too far...
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Post by be at college on Jan 4, 2007 9:42:50 GMT -5
Sometimes Narcissism can be taken too far... bethinks rather just far enough
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Post by Matthew on Jan 4, 2007 18:26:57 GMT -5
Holy cats, but that was hot, beautiful, sexy, brave, amazing, tear-jerking, and mind-blowing.
And I kinda wish Ianto hadn't been aiming for the shoulder. I've about had enough of Owen.
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Post by Queen E on Jan 18, 2007 23:12:57 GMT -5
Oh. My. God.
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Post by Queen E on Jan 18, 2007 23:15:30 GMT -5
Well, that was just an amazing episode.
Here's the interesting bit; the narcissism in question in this episode was not Jack/Jack, but Owen. His pain is so much greater than everyone else's that he'll do anything. I have absolutely no sympathy for him now...Ianto was absolutely right. I love how this episode really put paid to the idea that doing "anything and everything" for love is somehow romantic. It's not...it's more about the person doing it than the person it is meant for...
Can't wait to see the next episode...
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Jan 20, 2007 8:14:02 GMT -5
Well, that was just an amazing episode. Here's the interesting bit; the narcissism in question in this episode was not Jack/Jack, but Owen. His pain is so much greater than everyone else's that he'll do anything. I have absolutely no sympathy for him now... Ianto was absolutely right. I love how this episode really put paid to the idea that doing "anything and everything" for love is somehow romantic. It's not...it's more about the person doing it than the person it is meant for... Can't wait to see the next episode... oooh, *nods* You know the big argue about Owen's actions right in the first episode? The spray and was it rape and all that. And some people think it was a throwaway funny. But I've never been able to see it that way, because it is the single most consistent note in his character. He thinks his wishes, especially about women, are the only important ones. Which makes this with the rift the logical conclusion of him being a rapist: fuck the world! ... sorry, couldn't resist the phrasing. But I mean, she left him, on purpose, because she wanted to. Him going crazy-stalker about it and blaming the Rift is just freaky and unhelpful - and *utterly* in character as established right from the start, only they did start small and build so the initial clue was not where the reaction lived and people got that jokey reading. But here, very clear, Owen did a very bad thing. And Ianto was completely right. (Yaay Ianto!) But having been so utterly wrong before, he has trouble believing himself. Plus the thing where the second in command apparently thinks he's the teaboy. (I think Ianto's job is intelligence analysis - he's the one that brings them the data the others run around chasing. If this is true and Owen hasn't noticed? Owen r dum. But just as likely writers r dum, so, *shrugs*) And then at the end he thinks he shot someone when it wasn't necessary. Only nobody yells at Ianto about that. Even Owen seems relatively mellow! Which is funny. But then next episode... ETA: episode comments- episodes 12 and 13 were shown together in the UK, so theres spoilers for the next ep mixed in.
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Post by Onjel on Jan 21, 2007 20:35:52 GMT -5
Well, there's something you won't see on American television. And, did the real Jack have impossibly long beautiful eyelashes or what?
How tender and sad was that scene? Amazing. And, we get some more pieces of the Jack II puzzle. Lovely. Just lovely.
And, Owen? That wanker is getting on my nerves.
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Post by Queen E on Jan 21, 2007 21:56:36 GMT -5
Well, that was just an amazing episode. Here's the interesting bit; the narcissism in question in this episode was not Jack/Jack, but Owen. His pain is so much greater than everyone else's that he'll do anything. I have absolutely no sympathy for him now... Ianto was absolutely right. I love how this episode really put paid to the idea that doing "anything and everything" for love is somehow romantic. It's not...it's more about the person doing it than the person it is meant for... Can't wait to see the next episode... oooh, *nods* You know the big argue about Owen's actions right in the first episode? The spray and was it rape and all that. And some people think it was a throwaway funny. But I've never been able to see it that way, because it is the single most consistent note in his character. He thinks his wishes, especially about women, are the only important ones. Which makes this with the rift the logical conclusion of him being a rapist: fuck the world! ... sorry, couldn't resist the phrasing. But I mean, she left him, on purpose, because she wanted to. Him going crazy-stalker about it and blaming the Rift is just freaky and unhelpful - and *utterly* in character as established right from the start, only they did start small and build so the initial clue was not where the reaction lived and people got that jokey reading. But here, very clear, Owen did a very bad thing. And Ianto was completely right. (Yaay Ianto!) But having been so utterly wrong before, he has trouble believing himself. Plus the thing where the second in command apparently thinks he's the teaboy. (I think Ianto's job is intelligence analysis - he's the one that brings them the data the others run around chasing. If this is true and Owen hasn't noticed? Owen r dum. But just as likely writers r dum, so, *shrugs*) And then at the end he thinks he shot someone when it wasn't necessary. Only nobody yells at Ianto about that. Even Owen seems relatively mellow! Which is funny. But then next episode... Word word, wordy mcword, to all this. The main problem, of course, is that Owen lacks self-awareness to a high degree. That's the problem that Jack pinpointed in episode 1; Owen is not unlike a lot of the physician's I used to work with, arrogant, know-it-all, etc. Torchwood exacerbates those tendencies because they are so isolated from the rest of the world. It'll be interesting to see how Owen's remorse plays out...
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Post by Queen E on Jan 21, 2007 21:58:56 GMT -5
Well, there's something you won't see on American television. And, did the real Jack have impossibly long beautiful eyelashes or what? How tender and sad was that scene? Amazing. And, we get some more pieces of the Jack II puzzle. Lovely. Just lovely. And, Owen? That wanker is getting on my nerves. That was my thought, too. I know it seems like sometimes I'm beating a drum, but having known people absolutely tormented because they are gay, it's refreshing to see the media acknowledge the variety of human sexuality in the same way heterosexuality is celebrated...
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jun 19, 2007 19:35:21 GMT -5
Temporal shift But then they actually went back in time. "stolen." So is the rest of the group going to completely fall apart with Jack not there? Possessive asshole. Another Captain Jack? WTF? Cool reflections on the computer screen. And they see the picture of Jack. James Harper. Ooooh, Jack took his name from some one else. Why did that never occur to me before? So camera guy isn't from this time. Or something. Or he's part of Torchwood. Or he's immortal. Or he can jump back in forth in time. Tosh's Japaneseness. Ianto and Jack on their girlfriends. Owen is really cruel. When does this wartime story of Jack's actually take place? Aw, Jack's getting some. Almost. Aww... Ooh, Ianto's got a great deep boomy voice. Owen challenges Jack and his authority, voicing questions that they've all had. Jack confesses all to Tosh. Involved with Torchwood because he's searching for meaning, for the reason that he's been kept alive all these years. Jesus, shoot him, Ianto. Yes! Dammit. Yay! Jack and Jack! Beautiful scene. I'm afearing the gaybashing though. Nope, rift opens. KISS!! Neat fade-out. That was really cool.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jun 19, 2007 19:36:09 GMT -5
Holy cats, but that was hot, beautiful, sexy, brave, amazing, tear-jerking, and mind-blowing. And I kinda wish Ianto hadn't been aiming for the shoulder. I've about had enough of Owen.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jun 19, 2007 19:36:24 GMT -5
Well, that was just an amazing episode. Here's the interesting bit; the narcissism in question in this episode was not Jack/Jack, but Owen. His pain is so much greater than everyone else's that he'll do anything. I have absolutely no sympathy for him now...Ianto was absolutely right. I love how this episode really put paid to the idea that doing "anything and everything" for love is somehow romantic. It's not...it's more about the person doing it than the person it is meant for... Can't wait to see the next episode... Amazing exploration of love.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jun 19, 2007 19:44:59 GMT -5
Great episode. Loved the period piece. Great Jack stuff.
I didn't understand the Caretaker though. What was his deal? Maybe I missed something.
Also, this means that in 1941, there were three Jacks, this one in Cardiff, the one in London we see in The Doctor Dances, and a third one who had to live through the entire century.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jun 19, 2007 20:42:25 GMT -5
Oh, and was Gwen picking up on the music and voices further suggestion that she's got some ability to detect the paranormal?
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Jun 20, 2007 16:20:16 GMT -5
Yay! Jack and Jack! Beautiful scene. I'm afearing the gaybashing though. That's a lot of people's first reaction, to the point where some people refuse to believe original!Jack survived to be a hero, which is just messed up. People who did historical research say that basically in wartime everyone was too busy fighting to care who was shagging who. During the war homosexuals served pretty openly, because everyone had more important things on their minds. Found a link. Last lines a bit out of date. aha, found the Torchwood one - hereIt kind of worries me that gaybashing is seen as an unvarying historical fact, like it's normalised through history so not-bashing is the big change. It just ain't so.
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