Post by Dalton on Feb 18, 2004 1:57:02 GMT -5
by Miss Pamela
Alexandra K. wrote: "I have also been trying to figure out why James Marsters has so much more charisma onscreen than anyone I've seen in a long, long time. I think there is an intangible about some people that reaches out and almost hypnotizes others. And I think James Marsters has it in spades."
"Sit back, close your eyes, and try to imagine Brad Pitt as Spike, or George Clooney as Spike, or (fill in the latest major motion picture 'heartthrob' of your choice). NO ONE compares. In my mind, anyone I try to envision comes out cardboard next to James Marsters' performances...". (Post #40, "Spike's pants, Naked Spike, and wardrobe", BtVS - MISC.)
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I was actually thinking about this myself the other day. Not so much in comparing other actors to James Marsters in the role of Spike (which I can't do either, Alexandra), but in comparing other TV characters to Spike in terms of what their impact / influence upon tv viewers and pop culture alike was when they appeared and what kind of lasting legacy they'll leave in history. And the character I thought of was another of my all-time few and favorite TV characters: SPOCK.
So here, I've outlined what I see are some parallels between the Spike and Spock characters as well as the actors who played them.
1. Initial Expectations of the Series:
Both the characters of Spike and Mr. Spock (as he was first known and addressed in the naval terminology of Starfleet as an ship's officer) were originally not expected to be main viewer "draws". While unlike Spike, Spock was one of the main characters of Star Trek from the beginning, it was clear in both series that someone else (Kirk / Buffy) would be the main protagonist (made more obvious in BtVS with Buffy as the title character). In fact, with Star Trek, the Spock character originally almost didn't even make it to the series. Some at NBC thought viewers wouldn't accept an alien as a main character, the second-in-command of the Enterprise (the original idea of a woman second-in-command WAS scrapped). Of course with BtVS, Spike was not supposed to have lasted more than just a few episodes in the 2nd season, let alone the remainder of the series starting in S4 (not counting "Lover's Walk" in S3).
2. The Actors:
Like so many celebrities who are perceived as overnight successes, both Leonard Nimoy ("Spock") and James Marsters ("Spike) were nothing of the sort. Both men were well-trained, skilled and experienced actors long before their now-famous TV roles brought them that fame. While all plays, movies, or TV shows are obviously team efforts, it's still a great credit to the actors who give life to the characters; who are able to skillfully bring forth someone "believable" AND, more important, that audiences are interested in enough to want to watch over and over again.
3. Multi-Dimensioned "Outsiders".
Neither Spock nor Spike are "human". Spock is half human, half Vulcan - Spike is a Vampire (won't get into the whole debate of what that means in the JossVerse). Both are complex yet charismatic individuals, and their non-human qualities lend a further air of mystery to them. Over time, we found there was more to Spock than logic and more to Spike than evil & mayhem. We know of Spike's history with the Scoobies and as a "bad guy" and "evil, soulless thing", they've had plenty of reasons to not like or trust him. That's the main premise of the show: Vampires = no soul = bad (unless they're ensouled and named 'Angel'); humans = soul = good (with a few notable exceptions). But while Spock wasn't painted as a "bad guy" as Spike was, he at times was nonetheless regarded with mistrust and suspicion because he was "different". When in "Balance of Terror" the ruthless, evil Romulans were seen by humans for the first time (by the Enterprise crew), the humans learned that Romulans are identical in appearance to the peaceful Vulcans (later learning that the two races are from common origins). Some crew members (one in particular whose family was killed by Romulans) then looked at Spock with some fear and loathing, at least for a short time. And of course, who can forget the great long, xenophobic feud between Dr. McCoy and Spock? More than once I've been reminded of those two in some of the scenes between Xander and Spike.
4. Fans' Reaction:
While Kirk was, again, obviously the main protagonist, filling many roles as the typical swashbuckling romantic lead, the fan mail soon let NBC know that many Star Trek fans not just liked Spock for his keen mind but for his dark good looks as well. I think it's safe to assume that ME got plenty (and still GETS plenty) of similar fan mail about Spike, too. ;-)
Interestingly, both series' writers eventually did something perhaps at least partially in response to that, and in quite similar ways. Each show produced an episode where the Vulcan or Vampire let their "tender, romantic" feelings show and made with the smoochies, AND they both did so under a mind-controlling influence. In "This Side of Paradise", it's spores from an indigenous plant life on an alien planet. In "Something Blue", it's Willow's spell. I'm not saying that fan response was SOLELY the reason for these episodes and the love scenes in either case; we've all heard how Joss supposedly has story arcs planned pretty well in advance, for one. But we know fans CAN make a difference if the series' creators are listening. I tend to think that the amount of love scenes any given TV character gets, especially those in co-star or support roles, is somewhat proportional to what the fans want to see.
5. The Legacies-On and Off Screen:
It might be hard to say who ended up the most popular original Star Trek character, Kirk or Spock. That debate may rage on forever; only time will tell. But certainly, the non-human Spock has taken his place in fictional immortality as probably the most famous science fiction "alien" character of all time (besides the plural generic reference to "Martians"). And with some exceptions (like the scenes of the boy Spock in "The Search for Spock" movie), could we really IMAGINE anyone besides Leonard Nimoy as Spock? Nimoy IS what Spock looks and sounds like. He BECAME Spock; he MADE Spock; he IS Spock. He at first resisted it, then later embraced it as he was able to go on to do other roles and branch out into producing and directing. An excellent and skilled, experienced actor in his own right, Nimoy never became tragically typecast (like George Reeves as "Superman") - never allowed Spock to kill his career - but used it to enrich his own life and continue to delight millions of fans.
In BtVS, Spike's character came for a season and stayed for the show. Whether or not his popularity will ever rival Buffy's is debatable; even as a "Spike lover" I have my doubts. But I think there's LITTLE doubt that today, he is probably the next-most popular character to ever come out of the BtVS series since Angel. As with the original Star Trek series, time will ultimately tell - BtVS is still a work in progress and we don't have 30+ years of hindsight to reflect back on. And as with Nimoy, could we really IMAGINE anyone besides James Marsters as Spike now? Marsters IS what Spike looks and sounds like. He BECAME Spike; he MADE Spike; he IS Spike. I think that he's also enough of a talented, skilled, and previously-established (if not famous) actor that his career won't be "ruined" by typecasting as Spike, either. But I also think, from accounts I've read from interviews, conventions, etc., that Marsters is comfortable "being" Spike and rather enjoys it (he should!). So I could easily imagine that 5, 10, 15 or more years from now - as long he's able and fans want to see him - we'll see James Marsters at conventions as "Spike". That'd be fine with me; I'm ready, willing, and able to (hear and) see as much of Mr. Marsters as I can. ;-)
Thoughts / comments, anyone?
Alexandra K. wrote: "I have also been trying to figure out why James Marsters has so much more charisma onscreen than anyone I've seen in a long, long time. I think there is an intangible about some people that reaches out and almost hypnotizes others. And I think James Marsters has it in spades."
"Sit back, close your eyes, and try to imagine Brad Pitt as Spike, or George Clooney as Spike, or (fill in the latest major motion picture 'heartthrob' of your choice). NO ONE compares. In my mind, anyone I try to envision comes out cardboard next to James Marsters' performances...". (Post #40, "Spike's pants, Naked Spike, and wardrobe", BtVS - MISC.)
-----
I was actually thinking about this myself the other day. Not so much in comparing other actors to James Marsters in the role of Spike (which I can't do either, Alexandra), but in comparing other TV characters to Spike in terms of what their impact / influence upon tv viewers and pop culture alike was when they appeared and what kind of lasting legacy they'll leave in history. And the character I thought of was another of my all-time few and favorite TV characters: SPOCK.
So here, I've outlined what I see are some parallels between the Spike and Spock characters as well as the actors who played them.
1. Initial Expectations of the Series:
Both the characters of Spike and Mr. Spock (as he was first known and addressed in the naval terminology of Starfleet as an ship's officer) were originally not expected to be main viewer "draws". While unlike Spike, Spock was one of the main characters of Star Trek from the beginning, it was clear in both series that someone else (Kirk / Buffy) would be the main protagonist (made more obvious in BtVS with Buffy as the title character). In fact, with Star Trek, the Spock character originally almost didn't even make it to the series. Some at NBC thought viewers wouldn't accept an alien as a main character, the second-in-command of the Enterprise (the original idea of a woman second-in-command WAS scrapped). Of course with BtVS, Spike was not supposed to have lasted more than just a few episodes in the 2nd season, let alone the remainder of the series starting in S4 (not counting "Lover's Walk" in S3).
2. The Actors:
Like so many celebrities who are perceived as overnight successes, both Leonard Nimoy ("Spock") and James Marsters ("Spike) were nothing of the sort. Both men were well-trained, skilled and experienced actors long before their now-famous TV roles brought them that fame. While all plays, movies, or TV shows are obviously team efforts, it's still a great credit to the actors who give life to the characters; who are able to skillfully bring forth someone "believable" AND, more important, that audiences are interested in enough to want to watch over and over again.
3. Multi-Dimensioned "Outsiders".
Neither Spock nor Spike are "human". Spock is half human, half Vulcan - Spike is a Vampire (won't get into the whole debate of what that means in the JossVerse). Both are complex yet charismatic individuals, and their non-human qualities lend a further air of mystery to them. Over time, we found there was more to Spock than logic and more to Spike than evil & mayhem. We know of Spike's history with the Scoobies and as a "bad guy" and "evil, soulless thing", they've had plenty of reasons to not like or trust him. That's the main premise of the show: Vampires = no soul = bad (unless they're ensouled and named 'Angel'); humans = soul = good (with a few notable exceptions). But while Spock wasn't painted as a "bad guy" as Spike was, he at times was nonetheless regarded with mistrust and suspicion because he was "different". When in "Balance of Terror" the ruthless, evil Romulans were seen by humans for the first time (by the Enterprise crew), the humans learned that Romulans are identical in appearance to the peaceful Vulcans (later learning that the two races are from common origins). Some crew members (one in particular whose family was killed by Romulans) then looked at Spock with some fear and loathing, at least for a short time. And of course, who can forget the great long, xenophobic feud between Dr. McCoy and Spock? More than once I've been reminded of those two in some of the scenes between Xander and Spike.
4. Fans' Reaction:
While Kirk was, again, obviously the main protagonist, filling many roles as the typical swashbuckling romantic lead, the fan mail soon let NBC know that many Star Trek fans not just liked Spock for his keen mind but for his dark good looks as well. I think it's safe to assume that ME got plenty (and still GETS plenty) of similar fan mail about Spike, too. ;-)
Interestingly, both series' writers eventually did something perhaps at least partially in response to that, and in quite similar ways. Each show produced an episode where the Vulcan or Vampire let their "tender, romantic" feelings show and made with the smoochies, AND they both did so under a mind-controlling influence. In "This Side of Paradise", it's spores from an indigenous plant life on an alien planet. In "Something Blue", it's Willow's spell. I'm not saying that fan response was SOLELY the reason for these episodes and the love scenes in either case; we've all heard how Joss supposedly has story arcs planned pretty well in advance, for one. But we know fans CAN make a difference if the series' creators are listening. I tend to think that the amount of love scenes any given TV character gets, especially those in co-star or support roles, is somewhat proportional to what the fans want to see.
5. The Legacies-On and Off Screen:
It might be hard to say who ended up the most popular original Star Trek character, Kirk or Spock. That debate may rage on forever; only time will tell. But certainly, the non-human Spock has taken his place in fictional immortality as probably the most famous science fiction "alien" character of all time (besides the plural generic reference to "Martians"). And with some exceptions (like the scenes of the boy Spock in "The Search for Spock" movie), could we really IMAGINE anyone besides Leonard Nimoy as Spock? Nimoy IS what Spock looks and sounds like. He BECAME Spock; he MADE Spock; he IS Spock. He at first resisted it, then later embraced it as he was able to go on to do other roles and branch out into producing and directing. An excellent and skilled, experienced actor in his own right, Nimoy never became tragically typecast (like George Reeves as "Superman") - never allowed Spock to kill his career - but used it to enrich his own life and continue to delight millions of fans.
In BtVS, Spike's character came for a season and stayed for the show. Whether or not his popularity will ever rival Buffy's is debatable; even as a "Spike lover" I have my doubts. But I think there's LITTLE doubt that today, he is probably the next-most popular character to ever come out of the BtVS series since Angel. As with the original Star Trek series, time will ultimately tell - BtVS is still a work in progress and we don't have 30+ years of hindsight to reflect back on. And as with Nimoy, could we really IMAGINE anyone besides James Marsters as Spike now? Marsters IS what Spike looks and sounds like. He BECAME Spike; he MADE Spike; he IS Spike. I think that he's also enough of a talented, skilled, and previously-established (if not famous) actor that his career won't be "ruined" by typecasting as Spike, either. But I also think, from accounts I've read from interviews, conventions, etc., that Marsters is comfortable "being" Spike and rather enjoys it (he should!). So I could easily imagine that 5, 10, 15 or more years from now - as long he's able and fans want to see him - we'll see James Marsters at conventions as "Spike". That'd be fine with me; I'm ready, willing, and able to (hear and) see as much of Mr. Marsters as I can. ;-)
Thoughts / comments, anyone?