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Post by Riff on Aug 8, 2007 13:20:19 GMT -5
I wonder if the last Doctor would have been so willing to show compassion had he lived to experience this particular series of events. I think that's a definite no! |
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Post by Riff on Aug 8, 2007 13:23:47 GMT -5
I wonder if the last Doctor would have been so willing to show compassion had he lived to experience this particular series of events. It's hard to say, and the whole timeline thing is really confusing. If the Order of Skaro escaped to 1933, and are now dead, how does that affect what happened in 2006? Does that mean they never escaped the void? Time travel gives me a headache. And no, I don't think Nine would have taken the same tack. Especially if he'd been the one to lose Rose. That would have made things far too raw; he wouldn't have believed them capable of evolving. Actually, I was a little surprised Ten was so compassionate. It is an interesting point. Especially when it comes to races such as the Daleks which the Doctor has often encountered, the show seems to assume a sort of intrinsic linearity in the doctor - i.e. when ever he encounters the Daleks, this is always chronological for both parties. The Time War has further complicated this, but we'll get to that... |
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Post by Riff on Aug 8, 2007 13:25:24 GMT -5
It's hard to say, and the whole timeline thing is really confusing. If the Order of Skaro escaped to 1933, and are now dead, how does that affect what happened in 2006? Does that mean they never escaped the void? Time travel gives me a headache. And no, I don't think Nine would have taken the same tack. Especially if he'd been the one to lose Rose. That would have made things far too raw; he wouldn't have believed them capable of evolving.Actually, I was a little surprised Ten was so compassionate. Me either. Nine had a more angry personality to begin with. Though, I will always have a very soft spot in my heart for him. Especially "The Doctor Dances". Though, I was also surprised at Ten's compassion. Also, I liked how the Frankenstein element keeps coming into play with the electricity reviving the corpses, only this time the electricity was the vector for the delivery not only of electrical current but gamma rays. And, yes, I couldn't help but think of Rachael and how much fun she is going to have with the genetic references in this show. I wonder if she'll find them acceptable or not.  *laughs* I think we have to assume that the Daleks' grasp of genetic engineering is so complex and sophisticated that it's basically magic. ;D |
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Post by Riff on Aug 8, 2007 13:40:21 GMT -5
It's hard to say, and the whole timeline thing is really confusing. If the Order of Skaro escaped to 1933, and are now dead, how does that affect what happened in 2006? Does that mean they never escaped the void? Time travel gives me a headache. Time travel is just like space travel only not. Think of it on a time line - two lines, actually, one that just trundles along and another that bounces around on it. Daleks left void, then travel to a different bit of the line, then died there. Doesn't mean they didn't leave void because that was Before on their line, even if it was after in linear time. The complicated stuff happens when the linear time also has their timeline in, like if someone goes back to kill their creator. I think this is drawn from the Many Worlds theory of quantum mechanics. Basically, the idea is that subatomic particles are governed by chance, and that this can be represented by a wave equation. When quantum events "happen", human reality splits into different lines, each one based on one of the probabilities in the equation, each one a separate line of reality with it's own versions of us. This allows for time travel with no paradoxes, because changing the past means creating a new line; your own future does not change, because it is on another line. However, for many years the show based these questions around the Blinovitch Limitation Effect, which states that history cannot be altered, because if one travels to the past, one was always a part of that history. Think of Twelve Monkeys. Going back in time to prevent a plague ultimately causes the plague - the time traveller was always part of that history. However (again), the Time War has changed things. In the DW mythos, it was the Time Lords and their Eye of Harmony that kept time stable and ensured one history. Now they are gone, paradoxes (and their consequences) are very possible, as in "Father's Day". |
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Post by Riff on Aug 8, 2007 13:42:33 GMT -5
Why does the HumanDalek have a bunch of penises stuck to the side of his head? Erm, it breaks the ice at parties? |
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Post by Riff on Aug 8, 2007 13:44:11 GMT -5
Why does the HumanDalek have a bunch of penises stuck to the side of his head? To evoke Cthulhu? Or so I've heard. I'm not really up on the whole thing. Oh, you should give it a go! "The Call of Cthulhu" and "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" are two wonderful stories. |
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Post by Riff on Aug 8, 2007 13:48:55 GMT -5
I wonder if the last Doctor would have been so willing to show compassion had he lived to experience this particular series of events. Good question. I love the wackiness that comes from time traveling. Events are all over the map but his memory is marching forward.  I dare you to turn up at some lonely diner or something, wearing period dress, and saying "Excuse me, but what year is it?" ;D |
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Post by Riff on Aug 8, 2007 14:00:20 GMT -5
To evoke Cthulhu? Or so I've heard. I'm not really up on the whole thing. Or, more frighteningly yet, perhaps to summon Hello Cthulhu?
Is this the lair of Great Cthulhu?
In the city of slime,
Where it is night all the time.
Bob Hope never went
Along the road to Great Cthulhu,
And Triple-A has no maps,
And all the Cho-chos lay traps.
You'll see an ancient sunken city where the angles are wrong.
You'll see the fourth dimension if you're there very long.
Come to the conventicle.
Bring along your pentacle;
Otherwise you'll be dragged off by a tentacle.
A mountain's in the middle, with a house on the peak;
A gnashin' and a thrashin' and a clackin' of beak.
Your soul you will be lackin'
When you see that mighty kraken.
Oo-oo! Great Cthulhu's starting to speak.
So come on aboard,
Along the road to Great Cthulhu.
Wen-di-gos and Dhols
Will make Big Macs of our souls.
Under the sea,
Down in the ancient city of R'llyeh,
In the lair of Great Cthulhu,
They'll suck your soul away!
(Great Cthulhu, Great Cthulhu)
Suck your soul!
(Great Cthulhu, Great Cthulhu)
In the lair of Great Cthulhu,
They'll suck your soul away. |
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Post by Lola m on Aug 8, 2007 16:14:03 GMT -5
Pardon me, boy,
Is this the lair of Great Cthulhu?
In the city of slime,
Where it is night all the time.
Bob Hope never went
Along the road to Great Cthulhu,
And Triple-A has no maps,
And all the Cho-chos lay traps.
You'll see an ancient sunken city where the angles are wrong.
You'll see the fourth dimension if you're there very long.
Come to the conventicle.
Bring along your pentacle;
Otherwise you'll be dragged off by a tentacle.
A mountain's in the middle, with a house on the peak;
A gnashin' and a thrashin' and a clackin' of beak.
Your soul you will be lackin'
When you see that mighty kraken.
Oo-oo! Great Cthulhu's starting to speak.
So come on aboard,
Along the road to Great Cthulhu.
Wen-di-gos and Dhols
Will make Big Macs of our souls.
Under the sea,
Down in the ancient city of R'llyeh,
In the lair of Great Cthulhu,
They'll suck your soul away!
(Great Cthulhu, Great Cthulhu)
Suck your soul!
(Great Cthulhu, Great Cthulhu)
In the lair of Great Cthulhu,
They'll suck your soul away.   |
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Aug 9, 2007 10:04:42 GMT -5
Good question. I love the wackiness that comes from time traveling. Events are all over the map but his memory is marching forward. I dare you to turn up at some lonely diner or something, wearing period dress, and saying "Excuse me, but what year is it?" ;D  That's an awesome idea! |
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Post by Rachael on Jan 27, 2008 12:03:55 GMT -5
It's hard to say, and the whole timeline thing is really confusing. If the Order of Skaro escaped to 1933, and are now dead, how does that affect what happened in 2006? Does that mean they never escaped the void? Time travel gives me a headache. And no, I don't think Nine would have taken the same tack. Especially if he'd been the one to lose Rose. That would have made things far too raw; he wouldn't have believed them capable of evolving.Actually, I was a little surprised Ten was so compassionate. Me either. Nine had a more angry personality to begin with. Though, I will always have a very soft spot in my heart for him. Especially "The Doctor Dances". Though, I was also surprised at Ten's compassion. Also, I liked how the Frankenstein element keeps coming into play with the electricity reviving the corpses, only this time the electricity was the vector for the delivery not only of electrical current but gamma rays. And, yes, I couldn't help but think of Rachael and how much fun she is going to have with the genetic references in this show. I wonder if she'll find them acceptable or not. Well, I finally got to see it on DVD last night (the first time it aired was the weekend I moved, so, no cable). Mark me down for "unacceptable with a side of surprisingly accurate nonsense", in that gamma rays would indeed allow one to mix two forms of DNA...but not in any controllable, useful way. Gamma rays induce random breaks in DNA. That's what we USE them for. You know, Craig Venter just constructed the very first completely artificial chromosome from scratch. This technology exists for humans in 2008, so the Daleks having to use gamma rays and solar flares is just silly. If they wanted to merge human and Dalek DNA, they could just build themselves a machine to do so.  Mostly, though, my issues with this ep were with the making Daleks so very unDaleky. I didn't feel it was a legitimate evolution of the character (since I mostly consider Daleks to be one character - even the Cult of Skaro barely distinguish from one another) - I felt it was forced and just slapped on top of the character in order to try and make "something new". But part of the point of Daleks is that they don't DO "something new". They're all about racial purity and...I get that the Cult was supposed to represent Daleks with something of an individual mind about them, with creativity, but still - more development was needed for that plot to fly. Plus, pigmen? Really? Why? As an experiment in merging human DNA with another species, sure, though it's not something they'd really want to do 100 times over. Once it worked three times, they could be done, and the notion of using pigmen as slaves is just silly. Why not just control the minds of unaltered humans, and have slaves who could walk about where other humans could see them? Some things I liked, though. I liked Talullah (sp.). I sort of wished she could have signed up for Companion status. She's sassy. I liked the history lessons. I liked knowing that the Doctor does occasionally take the TARDIS to a continent other than Europe. |
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Post by Rachael on Jan 27, 2008 12:05:20 GMT -5
Why does the HumanDalek have a bunch of penises stuck to the side of his head? To evoke Cthulhu? Or so I've heard. I'm not really up on the whole thing. Cthulu's brain wasn't exposed. I see that as a definite disadvantage with HumanDalek. Could you imagine bumping your head while putting the dishes away? "Dammit. I just lost half the alphabet." |
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Post by Queen E on Jan 29, 2008 19:20:49 GMT -5
Me either. Nine had a more angry personality to begin with. Though, I will always have a very soft spot in my heart for him. Especially "The Doctor Dances". Though, I was also surprised at Ten's compassion. Also, I liked how the Frankenstein element keeps coming into play with the electricity reviving the corpses, only this time the electricity was the vector for the delivery not only of electrical current but gamma rays. And, yes, I couldn't help but think of Rachael and how much fun she is going to have with the genetic references in this show. I wonder if she'll find them acceptable or not. Well, I finally got to see it on DVD last night (the first time it aired was the weekend I moved, so, no cable). Mark me down for "unacceptable with a side of surprisingly accurate nonsense", in that gamma rays would indeed allow one to mix two forms of DNA...but not in any controllable, useful way. Gamma rays induce random breaks in DNA. That's what we USE them for. You know, Craig Venter just constructed the very first completely artificial chromosome from scratch. This technology exists for humans in 2008, so the Daleks having to use gamma rays and solar flares is just silly. If they wanted to merge human and Dalek DNA, they could just build themselves a machine to do so. Mostly, though, my issues with this ep were with the making Daleks so very unDaleky. I didn't feel it was a legitimate evolution of the character (since I mostly consider Daleks to be one character - even the Cult of Skaro barely distinguish from one another) - I felt it was forced and just slapped on top of the character in order to try and make "something new". But part of the point of Daleks is that they don't DO "something new". They're all about racial purity and...I get that the Cult was supposed to represent Daleks with something of an individual mind about them, with creativity, but still - more development was needed for that plot to fly. Plus, pigmen? Really? Why? As an experiment in merging human DNA with another species, sure, though it's not something they'd really want to do 100 times over. Once it worked three times, they could be done, and the notion of using pigmen as slaves is just silly. Why not just control the minds of unaltered humans, and have slaves who could walk about where other humans could see them? Some things I liked, though. I liked Talullah (sp.). I sort of wished she could have signed up for Companion status. She's sassy. I liked the history lessons. I liked knowing that the Doctor does occasionally take the TARDIS to a continent other than Europe. Well, I've just finished my rewatch of the season, and I'm digging these episodes (and The Lazarus Experiment) a lot more than on the initial viewing. They have been contextualized within the story in some intriguing ways; I do like a story with scope. Not just what the Master indicated were the connections (Tish getting the job with Professor Lazarus and "Saxon" funding his work), but how these episodes fit into the theme of the season as a whole. There are numerous examples throughout the season about "human" simulations. It reminds me of something from The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, where Mr. Beaver talks about never trusting someone who looks human but isn't, wasn't human and now is, or used to be human and isn't anymore. Not that I think they are saying "don't trust them," but there is definitely a discourse going on here about the nature of humanity. Examples: The plasmavore in "Smith and Jones," the youngest witch in "The Shakespeare Code" (and the use of "poppets"; ie, human simulations), Professor Lazarus, the Family of Blood (and John Smith!), the weeping Angels (after a fashion), the Toclafane, Yana/The Master, Captain Jack, and, in this case, Dalek Sec. And of course, there is also a theological/philosophical subthread going on, between humanism (The Doctor) and nihilism (the Master, Lucy Saxon, the Toclafane)....but it's too late in the day for me to go into that. |
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Post by Sara on Jan 29, 2008 20:58:56 GMT -5
To evoke Cthulhu? Or so I've heard. I'm not really up on the whole thing. Cthulu's brain wasn't exposed. I see that as a definite disadvantage with HumanDalek. Could you imagine bumping your head while putting the dishes away? "Dammit. I just lost half the alphabet." *snort* |
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