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Post by Vlad on Feb 9, 2008 21:15:30 GMT -5
People don't complain so much about being taxed (reasonably) as to the fact their money is not going to pay for important necessary things. I too grew up in a union family. And I believe in the concept of "union." Unfortunately the reality of most unions as it is now is it's simply middle management for the companies themselves and doesn't actually stand up for its members. It's been corrupted. Vlad I'm a consumption tax fan myself, with food, clothing, healthcare, and charitable giving being tax-exempt. This seems to me to be progressive, while giving people some level of control. Unions can counter abusive management, but some means to counter unions have to exist, too. I'm an open-shop guy. I don't disagree with you about the union topic. I am sure we have soe differences, but both of us are basically wanting companies to treat their employees better than disposable tools and for workers to actually perform their jobs realistically. not driven like slaves, but no more padding. Fair pay for for fair labor that is capable of providing for a famly's needs. As far as a consumption tax... possibly, in some format. I agree tho' that food, clothing and possibly healthcare (depending how that all works out) should be exempt. Also, it would be more likely to reasonably generate funds. The current system of the IRS promotes lying, not paying, using loopholes blah, blah blah. Either for greed, from the richest, or by almost necessity from the poorest. And, as a side note, I was shocked to find out Kansas taxes food! From the grocery. Unprepared food! I was flabbergasted. That is wrong in so many ways that I can't count. Not to mention their tax rate of 6.136457787... percent (I am exaggerating slightly on the decimal places here.) Yeah, figure that in your head. Vlad
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Post by Vlad on Feb 9, 2008 21:17:19 GMT -5
LOL! You and your principles! See, toss me a couple million and you can HAVE my house to live in. I don't care if you are Rush, Al, Bill, Ann or Osama Bin Ladin. (Tho' in the latter case, I am sure there would be an anonymous tip to teh FBI, CIA or NSA to the fact. ) Vlad Oh sure, they could have my house to live in. I just wouldn't let them LIVE WITH ME - alone or together ( though together could be kinda entertaining). The next great reality show! Vlad
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Feb 9, 2008 21:20:59 GMT -5
Oh sure, they could have my house to live in. I just wouldn't let them LIVE WITH ME - alone or together (though together could be kinda entertaining). Actually, it might not be pretty. I think Bill has a thing for Ann. His loofah? Or does he call it filafil? *Backing away hastily before I get into more trouble...* Anne, sometimes callous and strange, although I try to keep it within bounds
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 9, 2008 21:21:55 GMT -5
Yes - it's the pompous, nasty stuff that I just turn off, I don't care what opinion the person has. On O'Reilly: What kills me about him is how he call his show a "no spin" zone. C'mon, bud. Of course there's a spin! Just acknowledge it and get on with it. My bro-in-law is a Michael Moore fan, and we once had this exchange, when he was singing his praises: ME: I just don't like to watch his stuff, usually, because I don't think he provides all the facts. I get the impression that he goes in with his mind already made up, then puts together something to prove he is right. He MAY be right, but I can't tell from what he's showing me. BIL: Well, there's no law that says he has to show all the facts! ME: And I'm not saying he should be arrested. I'm just saying it is not what *I* prefer to watch. He really surprised me with his reaction - like my point was about what Moore should do, instead of what *I* like to watch. Does Ann Coulter or Bill Mahr or anyone else have to speak or write or live in a way to please me? Gosh, no - unless they are living in my house without paying rent, they don't have to follow my rules, not to any extent whatsoever. And I think it is safe to say I'd never let Ann or Bill live in my house (for any amount of money). Michael Moore is definitely opinionated and biased, but I really like his style and some of the stunts he's done have been brilliantly funny while exposing the rougher edges that The Man tries to hide. Yes, you'll get no argument from me about him being a smart, funny guy.
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Post by Sharky on Feb 9, 2008 21:29:09 GMT -5
Actually, it might not be pretty. I think Bill has a thing for Ann. His loofah? Or does he call it filafil? *Backing away hastily before I get into more trouble...* Anne, sometimes callous and strange, although I try to keep it within bounds Please stop them from breeding. Or Streisand and Olby might get ideas to keep things fair and balanced...
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 9, 2008 21:30:15 GMT -5
Yes, exactly so. And it brings up my, "Dude, if there IS a god, the likes of us presuming we know his/her/its mind and that he/she/it cares about our individual behaviors...is sort of wildly arrogant, don't you think?" In fact, the whole obsession with sexual behavior is just weird, to me. Yup, we religious folk are weird. I don't think it requires arrogance of any kind to believe that God cares about individual behaviors - it just requires arrogance to believe that you are the final arbiter, and can never be wrong in your interpretation. It's not the same thing. Obsession with sexual behavior is indeed wierd, but it's got nothing to do with religious affliation. You'll find people overly-obssessed with that subject, across any lines.
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Post by Vlad on Feb 9, 2008 21:34:33 GMT -5
Yup, we religious folk are weird. I don't think it requires arrogance of any kind to believe that God cares about individual behaviors - it just requires arrogance to believe that you are the final arbiter, and can never be wrong in your interpretation. It's not the same thing. Obsession with sexual behavior is indeed wierd, but it's got nothing to do with religious affliation. You'll find people overly-obssessed with that subject, across any lines.Yes, listen to Spring here. She knows. Her strange powers with her tear away tops depend on that, in fact. Vlad
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Post by Shan on Feb 9, 2008 21:35:53 GMT -5
I don't think it requires arrogance of any kind to believe that God cares about individual behaviors - it just requires arrogance to believe that you are the final arbiter, and can never be wrong in your interpretation. It's not the same thing. Obsession with sexual behavior is indeed wierd, but it's got nothing to do with religious affliation. You'll find people overly-obssessed with that subject, across any lines.Yes, listen to Spring here. She knows. Her strange powers with her tear away tops depend on that, in fact. Vlad *smacks your nose*
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 9, 2008 21:38:29 GMT -5
His loofah? Or does he call it filafil? *Backing away hastily before I get into more trouble...* Anne, sometimes callous and strange, although I try to keep it within bounds Please stop them from breeding. Or Streisand and Olby might get ideas to keep things fair and balanced... Stop them from breathing? Yep. That's what I was thinking I would have to . . oh. Breeding. Hmmm. Would either one of them know what a baby was, or what to do with it?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 9, 2008 21:39:40 GMT -5
I'm a consumption tax fan myself, with food, clothing, healthcare, and charitable giving being tax-exempt. This seems to me to be progressive, while giving people some level of control. Unions can counter abusive management, but some means to counter unions have to exist, too. I'm an open-shop guy. I don't disagree with you about the union topic. I am sure we have soe differences, but both of us are basically wanting companies to treat their employees better than disposable tools and for workers to actually perform their jobs realistically. not driven like slaves, but no more padding. Fair pay for for fair labor that is capable of providing for a famly's needs. As far as a consumption tax... possibly, in some format. I agree tho' that food, clothing and possibly healthcare (depending how that all works out) should be exempt. Also, it would be more likely to reasonably generate funds. The current system of the IRS promotes lying, not paying, using loopholes blah, blah blah. Either for greed, from the richest, or by almost necessity from the poorest. And, as a side note, I was shocked to find out Kansas taxes food! From the grocery. Unprepared food! I was flabbergasted. That is wrong in so many ways that I can't count. Not to mention their tax rate of 6.136457787... percent (I am exaggerating slightly on the decimal places here.) Yeah, figure that in your head. Vlad Several states have tax on food. Growing up, my parents were always on about how bad unions were, but I really don't know what to think myself.
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Post by Queen E on Feb 9, 2008 21:40:39 GMT -5
Yes, exactly so. And it brings up my, "Dude, if there IS a god, the likes of us presuming we know his/her/its mind and that he/she/it cares about our individual behaviors...is sort of wildly arrogant, don't you think?" In fact, the whole obsession with sexual behavior is just weird, to me. Yup, we religious folk are weird. Well, I'm fairly certain that's not what she meant. Call me weird if you'd like, but being obsessed with the sexual behavior of anyone except yourself (the general you, not the Sharky specific you) is something I find problematic. You definitely do not have to be religious to have an obsession with the sexual behavior of others. Actually, now that I think of it, it sounds a bit like being a teenager. Teens are obsessed with their own sexual behavior and the sexual behavior of others primarily (IMO) because they are discovering who they are and sussing out the mores of society in general. However, it should be something that people grow out of, and I think far too many people, whether they are religious or not, never really seem to. ETA: Brainshare with Spring!
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Post by Vlad on Feb 9, 2008 21:41:09 GMT -5
And can I say, cool? The other portion of topics forbidden from dinner finally raises its head.
Just remember, guys, when we are talking about religion, it's even more quagmire filled than politics. This is something that for those who believe, it's part of their core. For those that don't, it's either a meh subject or one that can be filled with ridicule. Let's not poke any bears. 'Kay? You might actually enlighten someone politically or at least find some good middle ground. Religion (or lack of) is an actual belief system that is rarely changed.
Vlad
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Post by Vlad on Feb 9, 2008 21:45:05 GMT -5
Yes, listen to Spring here. She knows. Her strange powers with her tear away tops depend on that, in fact. Vlad *smacks your nose* *rubs nose* What? What did I do? Vlad
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Feb 9, 2008 21:47:09 GMT -5
Yes, exactly so. And it brings up my, "Dude, if there IS a god, the likes of us presuming we know his/her/its mind and that he/she/it cares about our individual behaviors...is sort of wildly arrogant, don't you think?" In fact, the whole obsession with sexual behavior is just weird, to me. Yup, we religious folk are weird. I have to step in here and remind everyone that some sincere, fervently religious people are repelled by the Ken Hutchinsons of the world and find them... sorrowfully misguided... in their reading of the scripture, and with an unfortunate tendency to rely heavily on the simpler parts of the Old Testament while ignoring the Gospels and reading the Epistles with a jaundiced eye. Julia,
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Post by Vlad on Feb 9, 2008 21:49:07 GMT -5
Several states have tax on food. Silly states! There's three thoughts mostly. Either they are the great liberators and protectors of the workingman, they are evil (for assorted reasons) or they are actually a bit of both... sort of a necessary evil in the check on corporate evil. I sorta fall in the last category. Vlad
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