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Post by Matthew on Oct 22, 2008 21:45:00 GMT -5
My thoughts on Castiel from a few weeks back: copied over from my livejournal, because I forgot to do it at the time:
Supernatural, Season 4 I'm getting this up here so that six months hence I can say "LOOK AT ME! LOOK HOW RIGHT I WAS!" or, more likely, "LOOK AT HOW INCREDIBLY INSANE I WAS! WOOHOO!" So, here goes.
I don't trust Castiel. There are a number of reasons, but I don't think he's really the Angel Castiel: I think he's one of the fallen host that still serves Lucifer, and I think he pulled Dean out of Hell for Lucifer's own purposes.
I have my doubts about Castiel because the Light Side hasn't shown itself as being at all active in this show's mythology: not even when one of Lucifer's princes was attempting to (and partially succeeded) in unleashing hell on Earth: and Hell itself is full of angels: Azazel himself was one. "Castiel" is shown with black smoky wings, rather than bright shiny white ones: while Supernatural doesn't hold to all the conventions as far as "black vs. white" and such, it gives me pause. I do concede that it could just be part of the fact that angels are SCARY FREAKING CREATURES, no matter what master they serve, but I think it's significant in this case.
While I'd be utterly amazed and fascinated if the side of Light is taking an active role in things, it doesn't fit what we've had happen so far in the show's mythos. He is more likely to arrange it that Bobby gets their phone calls in time, seems more to me.
Plus, if Yaweh is so concerned about Sam's motives and direction, why not have Castiel take Sam on that gorram Monkey's-Paw Christmas-Carol trip all by himself? Why pull Dean into it, and pit brother against brother, when Sam is clearly striving to serve the Light, even if he's going a little grey-hat at the moment? The act of good faith of pulling Sam's brother out of hell would have meant that Sam would have listened to him. Unless Ruby has something on the angel calling itself "Castiel"; if there were some way she could recognize that he's not who he says he is....
I think Lilith (who according to the (admittedly, not show-related) mythology, is not a traditional fallen angel, but something entirely other) is working on a takeover bid, using Azazel's not-fully-explained endgame setup for her own purposes. Lucifer doesn't want that, so is trying to stop that, and needs Sam on his side for this purpose.
Having Ruby working with Sam is bad, as she has a scorecard for the whole "the way Hell works" thing, and she has thus far shown herself as a (slightly unstable) free agent, so turning Dean against her and her presence with Sam benefits the Shining One's plans: if Dean can destroy Ruby, Sam will be a lot easier tool to use against Lilith: he's already commited against Lilith anyways, but he won't question who his backing is, this way.
The final theory that I balk at a bit is the idea that the angel calling itself Castiel is actually the Prince of Darkness, the Father of Lies, as involving the Biggest Bad of All always makes me wince from a narrative standpoint, as where do you go when you destroy the source of all eeevill? That concern aside, I'd not be at all surprised to find out that "Castiel" isn't just one of the Fallen, that he's the Shining One himself: Lucifer as the angel on Dean's shoulder. As I've had pointed out to me, "Castiel" is certainly pretty enough to fit the role....
There ya go. Where I think Supernatural is going this season. By all means, shoot holes in it: I'm interested to see whether it holds water. Whether or not I'm right in this, the season's shaping up to be truly epic.
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Post by Pixi on Oct 24, 2008 12:26:12 GMT -5
LJ post for Yellow Fever:
May I just say blech? What the hell was that? I hated that episode. Except for Jenson doing Eye of the Tiger. Other than that I thought the case was stupid, I thought Dean was written really, really stupid and I want to get back to the mytharc and deal with Dean's feelings. And Sam was also completely off character. He rolls his eyes and pretty much doesn't seem to care that Dean is going to die? I repeat what the hell was that?
Was I just tired or was that just stupid? I loved the monster homage last week but this was trying my last bit of patience. I did not find it funny to find Dean the butt of every joke.
Dean's scream at the cat was funny I'll grant that. But, we got the funny episode last week. Can't we move on?
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Post by Karen on Oct 24, 2008 13:01:16 GMT -5
LJ post for Yellow Fever: May I just say blech? What the hell was that? I hated that episode. Except for Jenson doing Eye of the Tiger. Other than that I thought the case was stupid, I thought Dean was written really, really stupid and I want to get back to the mytharc and deal with Dean's feelings. And Sam was also completely off character. He rolls his eyes and pretty much doesn't seem to care that Dean is going to die? I repeat what the hell was that? Was I just tired or was that just stupid? I loved the monster homage last week but this was trying my last bit of patience. I did not find it funny to find Dean the butt of every joke. Dean's scream at the cat was funny I'll grant that. But, we got the funny episode last week. Can't we move on? Huh. I didn't have the same reaction to the episode. Wasn't the part where Sam rolled his eyes during the scene when Dean was having a fear hallucination? The demons are doing a number on him and setting up for the Sam/Dean confrontation. The scream at the cat and the Eye of the Tiger scenes were hilarious. Loved the Tyler/Perry names. The ghosty guy was a bit lame, and the way they had to kill him kinda sucked. And what happened to the woman that went missing which was the cause of the murders? I expected a resolution of some sort there. But I could've missed something, since I watched it at midnight last night. I agree with you about wanting to get back to the mytharc more.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 27, 2008 14:16:01 GMT -5
Rrrrock Ridge! Blazing Saddles reference?
Agents Tyler and Perry, heh.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 27, 2008 14:38:50 GMT -5
This episode had some interesting truth telling under spell stuff and metaphorical stuff, but on the whole I didn't find it very engaging.
And did Dean ever tell Bobby about his trip to the past and Castiel's warning?
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Post by artemis on Oct 27, 2008 21:29:00 GMT -5
And what happened to the woman that went missing which was the cause of the murders? I expected a resolution of some sort there. dean and sam found out partway through the episode that she had committed suicide. before her husband (the first victim of the ghost sickness) found out she had killed herself, he killed the guy who turned into the ghost because he thought the ghostguy had romantic feelings for her and had done something to make her disappear. (the sheriff was a friend of the husband, and helped him cover up his crime.)
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Post by artemis on Oct 27, 2008 21:29:13 GMT -5
]And did Dean ever tell Bobby about his trip to the past and Castiel's warning? as far as i've seen, so far there have been no explicit references to this having happened.
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Post by artemis on Oct 27, 2008 21:31:57 GMT -5
i thought this episode was sometimes kind of funny, but that was about it. the whole ghost story made me uncomfortable (and sympathetic for the ghost and totally unsympathetic for any victim but dean), and that they had to kill the ghost by re-enacting the initial crime made me feel kind of physically sick to watch. i don't, as yet, really get what the larger point of this episode was - where it fits in with the season as a whole. your theory is interesting, matthew. i'll try to remember to come back and comment on it when i'm less tired.
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Post by Pixi on Oct 31, 2008 8:43:00 GMT -5
It's the Great Pumpkin Sam Winchester - LJ thoughts.
Ah, welcome back my lovely mytharc. Wow. That was intense. I loved it. I love the new hardass scary Angel Uriel and I loved, loved, loved every moment of Castiel. (wow Mischa sells this!). Should an angel have doubts? Well no in real life but this is Kripke's mythology so I'm just following him.
Sam. Ah Sam. I'm scared for you and sad for Dean and I know there is this big debate on whether Sam's eyes turned black or not but they sure looked black to me.
The witch and her brother were fairly run of the mill demons/witches/whatever. Just there to serve the story.
Best parts of the show:
1. Dean yelling astronaut after the kid egged the Impala. Hee! 2. The confrontation in the motel room. First Sam's happy, impressed meeting the angels and then Dean taking a stand. I love Dean. 3. Dean watching as Sam took out Samhein. 4. Both conversations with angels at the end of the show. Uriel was freaking scary and Castiel saying they were told to do what Dean said? Awesome. I don't envy you. Awesome.
Worse parts of the show:
1. Ewww - icky razor blade POV shot. Ack! 2. Sam playing the role of exposition fairy once again. 3. Mispronunciation of demon's name. I'm not a celtic scholar and even I knew they were saying it wrong.
But the worse things were little and weinie for me. I loved this. Piper started barking at something at the start of the scene in the park and I'm yelling Piper shut up and racing over to turn the volume up louder. Intense. I was riveted. We all knew Sam would use the power again but Dean's face as he watched (oh and a hee for the zombie scene with Dean. Wish we could have seen more of that.) What happens next? The previews looked all light and airy between the boys and I keep wondering what did Dean say to Sam as they looked at the demon goo on the floor of the crypt. What did Sam say to Dean?
And now I have "Where do we go from here?" from the Buffy Musical resonating in my brain.
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Post by Sara on Oct 31, 2008 9:05:11 GMT -5
It's the Great Pumpkin Sam Winchester - LJ thoughts. Ah, welcome back my lovely mytharc. Wow. That was intense. I loved it. I love the new hardass scary Angel Uriel and I loved, loved, loved every moment of Castiel. (wow Mischa sells this!). Should an angel have doubts? Well no in real life but this is Kripke's mythology so I'm just following him. Sam. Ah Sam. I'm scared for you and sad for Dean and I know there is this big debate on whether Sam's eyes turned black or not but they sure looked black to me. The witch and her brother were fairly run of the mill demons/witches/whatever. Just there to serve the story. Best parts of the show: 1. Dean yelling astronaut after the kid egged the Impala. Hee! 2. The confrontation in the motel room. First Sam's happy, impressed meeting the angels and then Dean taking a stand. I love Dean. 3. Dean watching as Sam took out Samhein. 4. Both conversations with angels at the end of the show. Uriel was freaking scary and Castiel saying they were told to do what Dean said? Awesome. I don't envy you. Awesome. Worse parts of the show: 1. Ewww - icky razor blade POV shot. Ack! 2. Sam playing the role of exposition fairy once again. 3. Mispronunciation of demon's name. I'm not a celtic scholar and even I knew they were saying it wrong.
But the worse things were little and weinie for me. I loved this. Piper started barking at something at the start of the scene in the park and I'm yelling Piper shut up and racing over to turn the volume up louder. Intense. I was riveted. We all knew Sam would use the power again but Dean's face as he watched (oh and a hee for the zombie scene with Dean. Wish we could have seen more of that.) What happens next? The previews looked all light and airy between the boys and I keep wondering what did Dean say to Sam as they looked at the demon goo on the floor of the crypt. What did Sam say to Dean? And now I have "Where do we go from here?" from the Buffy Musical resonating in my brain. And I'll follow your lead and repeat my comment from your LJ entry regarding the butchering of Samhain: after the episode was over a thought occurred to me: maybe the mispronunciation was intentional, an auditory trick to get the audience, however unconsciously, to make a mental connection between this Huge Big Bad and our Sam? I'll be interested to see if Kripke has anything to say about it, 'cause you know everyone and their cousin will be talking about the error online.
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Post by Sara on Oct 31, 2008 9:12:57 GMT -5
And I'll follow your lead and repeat my comment from your LJ entry regarding the butchering of Samhain: after the episode was over a thought occurred to me: maybe the mispronunciation was intentional, an auditory trick to get the audience, however unconsciously, to make a mental connection between this Huge Big Bad and our Sam? I'll be interested to see if Kripke has anything to say about it, 'cause you know everyone and their cousin will be talking about the error online. Quoting myself to add this interesting tidbit I just discovered: David Berkowitz, aka Son of Sam, pronounced Samhain as Sam-hane, just like our Sammy did. In addition, Samhain was the Sam he was referring to in the nickname. A BBC page indicates Sam-hane, while wrong, may be a fairly common mispronunciation among Americans: The Gaelic word "Samhain" 'sow-in' (in Ireland), or 'sow-een' (in Wales), or 'sav-en' (in Scotland), but NOT 'sam-hane' (in the U.S., where they don't speak Gaelic) means literally "summer's end."
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Post by Pixi on Oct 31, 2008 10:26:54 GMT -5
I read this in the TV guide recap column comments.
Dean as Abraham? Interesting.
Genesis 18:32. Then he said, "Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak but once more: Suppose ten (righteous men) should be found there?" And He said, "I will not destroy it for the sake of ten."- Abraham and God in reference to Sodom. Dean being cast in the role of Abraham… I’m not envying him.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 31, 2008 18:04:06 GMT -5
Oh, hey, it's the brother from Kyle XY.
Ooh, Uriel.
Angels appear to be more in favor of the hatchet than the scalpel.
Sam's disillusioned with God and heaven. That's not going to be good.
Nothing more dangerous than some asshole who thinks he's on a holy mission. I think we're going to have to stick a pin in that one and come back to it later.
Uriel calls Dean a buttmonkey. Hee.
Zombies. I never quite got the appeal of zombies.
Sam makes the impossible choice.
The Angels were ordered to do whatever Dean said. Interesting! Same chooses the here and now rather than the grand scheme of things.
Castiel has doubts too. Hmm.
Also, it occurred to me today that the show has slowly switched from Sam being the POV character to Dean being the POV character, which is interesting.
And I wonder if the boys will ever go to Alaska or Hawaii.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 31, 2008 18:06:32 GMT -5
LJ post for Yellow Fever: May I just say blech? What the hell was that? I hated that episode. Except for Jenson doing Eye of the Tiger. Other than that I thought the case was stupid, I thought Dean was written really, really stupid and I want to get back to the mytharc and deal with Dean's feelings. And Sam was also completely off character. He rolls his eyes and pretty much doesn't seem to care that Dean is going to die? I repeat what the hell was that? Was I just tired or was that just stupid? I loved the monster homage last week but this was trying my last bit of patience. I did not find it funny to find Dean the butt of every joke. Dean's scream at the cat was funny I'll grant that. But, we got the funny episode last week. Can't we move on? I heard that the network made Kripke reverse the order of some of the episodes, which is why two comedy episodes ended up right next to each other. Doesn't help that the Yellow Fever was so weak, though.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 31, 2008 18:11:51 GMT -5
It's the Great Pumpkin Sam Winchester - LJ thoughts. Ah, welcome back my lovely mytharc. Wow. That was intense. I loved it. I love the new hardass scary Angel Uriel and I loved, loved, loved every moment of Castiel. (wow Mischa sells this!). Should an angel have doubts? Well no in real life but this is Kripke's mythology so I'm just following him. Sam. Ah Sam. I'm scared for you and sad for Dean and I know there is this big debate on whether Sam's eyes turned black or not but they sure looked black to me. The witch and her brother were fairly run of the mill demons/witches/whatever. Just there to serve the story. Best parts of the show: 1. Dean yelling astronaut after the kid egged the Impala. Hee! 2. The confrontation in the motel room. First Sam's happy, impressed meeting the angels and then Dean taking a stand. I love Dean. 3. Dean watching as Sam took out Samhein. 4. Both conversations with angels at the end of the show. Uriel was freaking scary and Castiel saying they were told to do what Dean said? Awesome. I don't envy you. Awesome. Worse parts of the show: 1. Ewww - icky razor blade POV shot. Ack! 2. Sam playing the role of exposition fairy once again. 3. Mispronunciation of demon's name. I'm not a celtic scholar and even I knew they were saying it wrong. But the worse things were little and weinie for me. I loved this. Piper started barking at something at the start of the scene in the park and I'm yelling Piper shut up and racing over to turn the volume up louder. Intense. I was riveted. We all knew Sam would use the power again but Dean's face as he watched (oh and a hee for the zombie scene with Dean. Wish we could have seen more of that.) What happens next? The previews looked all light and airy between the boys and I keep wondering what did Dean say to Sam as they looked at the demon goo on the floor of the crypt. What did Sam say to Dean? And now I have "Where do we go from here?" from the Buffy Musical resonating in my brain. I thought it was great too. Events are set in motion big time now, and it should be interesting to see how things go from here. Pretty ominous. And I thought the razor blade in the mouth shot was pretty unrealistic, but whatever.
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