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Mad Men
Aug 5, 2008 17:02:38 GMT -5
Post by Michelle on Aug 5, 2008 17:02:38 GMT -5
Ep 2.1 The Twist. <snip> Are these just partners or a gay couple?<snip> Meditations in an Emergency. For some reason, they reminded of of the main characters in Michael Chabon's book The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, even though it was about the comic book business and not advertising. The two characters in the book are cousins, one who had immigrated from Prague, the other a native New Yorker. They work as partners to create their story and artworks. One is gay, the other straight.I suspect Rachel Mencken, but it could have been his other chickie on the side, whose name I am blanking on.
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Mad Men
Aug 5, 2008 17:09:51 GMT -5
Post by Michelle on Aug 5, 2008 17:09:51 GMT -5
Oh, Paul! So very much the hip guy wanna-be. ;D (Heee! And he looks like pictures of my dad in his '20's - with the pipe. ;D ) And the wives of the other young ad guys are not liking this party. Heee! Love Sal and his wife?girlfriend? totally laughing at Ken. Oh, interesting. Paul has a black ?girlfriend? Interesting little by-play between her and Joan. Joan is definitely not as happy about her life as she's been saying she is. That "office manager" comment and the fact that she's snarky about Paul. (But I love how she snarked about Paul not having a couch.) Kind of a rockin' party, isn't it? With the pot and the interracial mix and the necking in hallways and so on. Oh I like this confident and sexy version of Peggy. "I'm in the pursuasion business, and frankly I'm disappointed by your presentation." Interesting juxtaposition, Glenn with the connotation of space travel and then the plane crash. Interesting. Duck says they need to tell Don to pull the Mohawk Airlines ads and Cooper knows right away that Don already knew to do this. What news did Pete get? I bet someone he knows was on the plane. Relative? Oh. His dad. Whoa. And he went to see Don, first thing. Looked around the office and went to see Don. Because he doesn't know what to do. Inside, he really looks up to Don and sees him as the guy who'll know what to do. "Go home and be with your family." "Why?" "Because that's what people do." "Is that what you would do." "Yes." "Really? "Yes." Whoa. That's shock alright. And a bit of truth being shocked out of both of them. There's life and there's work. Yeah, might want to take your own advice there. Oh my. And American is possibly looking for another ad agency. Don has problems with this "foothold". And Don's right that American hasn't signed yet. But this just shows us the widening gap between Don and Duck. Wow. This is an uncomfortable time at Pete's parent's place. And revelations of the money troubles we heard about earlier. I thought the scenes with Pete after he found out about his father's death were perfect. I have totally been in there--something tragic happens, but at the same time, like he says, everything is still the same. Pete knew that he was supposed to do *something* but was at a loss as to what was appropriate, so he turned to Don for advice. Don was good to him--at least for the moment--comforting him and telling him how to act, Don himself acting his way through life. Then Pete finds out his father pissed all his money away. The father that looked down on him for not working in the right profession and for not having children. Will Pete have to support his mother?
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Mad Men
Aug 5, 2008 17:15:37 GMT -5
Post by Michelle on Aug 5, 2008 17:15:37 GMT -5
Fighting about facts. Arguing about something that is actually one thing or another. And Pete was wrong in that last fight with his dad. Which probably to him feels like, well, the way things probably went with him. Oooooh, Joan. Something tells me Paul never saw this totally evil side of you before. Interesting. Duck wants to be the guy that Pete would have come and talked to. Offers comfort, and then. Hey - business! We'd like to do business with the airline that just caused your dad's death and we'd like you to help. Go Pete! I think I am uncomfortable. Innapropriate? Yeah, Duck, you think? Oh, crap. They're tossing Mohawk just to try for American Airlines, but no guarantee? Why do I think this is a bad idea? I suppose image is everything in advertisin, but still. Methinks this is gonna actually be a bad business decision as well as being tacky. Pete is totally lost . . . looking at Peggy . . . . Don snapping at him . . . hmmmmmm. Oooooh, revenge on Joan. Showing her age. Very interesting, what she chooses to say to Peggy. "Is it so hard to just leave everything at the door and do your job?" and "They just want you to be as miserable as they are". Hmmmmmm. This is new. Mad Med stylized factoids about the various companies that are advertising on the show. Age came up a lot, didn't it? I watched the first two episodes back to back, so I might have them merged in my mind, but I recall that in addition to pointing out how Joan is getting up there (for a woman in that era), Don is also staring down 40 and the gap is widening between his values and the "Summer of Love" type values that are fast approaching. I certainly couldn't see Don at a protest rally, could you?
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Mad Men
Aug 5, 2008 17:25:40 GMT -5
Post by Michelle on Aug 5, 2008 17:25:40 GMT -5
The way I understand it (and I did double-check with a few sites to make sure I was on the right track), the short answer is that when a person has any known sins that are unconfessed and unforgiven they are considered unworthy of taking communion. It's almost certainly what Peggy's mother would have believed, making it a smart decision on Peggy's part—regardless of what she herself believed—to remain seated. However, the Bible is a bit fuzzier on the subject. From 1 Corinthians 11:27: Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. In fact, from my brief reading I'd say many people are now of the belief Paul meant that being unworthy isn't at all about the sinner and what they have or haven't confessed—as long as you are mindful of Christ's sacrifice while receiving communion, then you are receiving it worthily. However, if you see receiving communion as validation of your piety or do so not believing Christ was the son of God, for example, then you are receiving it unworthily. Slight birdwalk there, I know, but I thought it was interesting stuff nonetheless. Thanks for the info, Sara! On my second watch, I think I'm of the opinion that she is choosing not to take communion, regardless of whether or not they would let her. Something about the look on her face and so on seemed to be saying here is someone going along with her mom to keep peace/make mom happy, but only so far. But I'd be interested to hear how others read the scene. I read that scene the same as you, Lola. I think a lot of Peggy's life is about compromise and compartmentalization. At work, she is the lone woman in a room full of men--men making crude remarks about looking up a woman's skirt. She is either treated like a secretary, or told that she doesn't count, but she never shows the slightest irritation. Then she goes to visit her family, where she is pressured to conform to their values and has to face the child that she...what? gave up or had taken from her. Actually, I was surprised that she didn't give the baby up for adoption. Anyway, what I'm saying, but not very well, is that she deals with things, but only so far. Kind of like when she was making out with the guy in the hallway. She got to a certain point and then walked away. She liked being with the guy, but when he wanted more, she rejected him.
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Mad Men
Aug 8, 2008 12:03:40 GMT -5
Post by Spaced Out Looney on Aug 8, 2008 12:03:40 GMT -5
Revisiting marital issues with Pete and wife. Ah, an office party? Nice Guy lives in Greenwich Village. That makes perfect sense. Parallels between Gay Guy's fake relationship and Joan's fake relationship. Ah, a racially mixed relationship. Are we in for some hateful displays of bigotry soon? Nice Guy = Paul Paul not normally known for being open minded. Peggy's job has made her more empowered? The morning after a party. Good times. Ah, after Glen's flight. So, this is Feb 20. or the 21st? ETA: OK, it's March 1. Info on the plane crash. And a plane crash too. Advertising's response to tragedy. Were Pete's parents on the plane? Yeah, his dad. What does one do? Drink! Oy. Go home and be with your family. Why? Because that's what people do. Is that what you would do? Of course, Pete knows the truth about Don. Business ethics and business practices. Don takes a stand. Pete's grieving family. A pink elephant. Huh? What is that all about? Who is the other chick who isn't Pete's wife? Question of the will. The family's not as rich as they thought they were. Who is this guy Don is talking to at home? Teaching the kids how to bartend from a very young age. Peggy's family. The actress who plays her sister Peggy's father has passed away. Peggy doesn't go to church. What was this talk about doctors and the state of New York not believing that Peggy was capable of making her own decisions? Was that about the baby? Cause if it was, I don't think it makes sense to me. And I don't think that Peggy would have let her sister know about that. Ah, random guy must be what's her name's husband. Kids listening on the stairs to the adults' party. I remember those days. About childraising. Ohhh, Peggy's sister is raising Peggy's baby. I get it now. Mostly. parallel of watching children sleep. Paul as a phony. Which wouldn't make him different from any of the other guys working there. So Duck is the callous face of new business. Posting Joan's age on the notice board. Interesting scene. Oy, Don had to deliver the bad news that he doesn't even believe in. Wooing American Airlines. Pete turning his tragedy into a business advantage. What is Don's fixation on the waitress? Pre-Vatican II church service. Peggy goes to church but doesn't take communion.
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Mad Men
Aug 8, 2008 12:37:49 GMT -5
Post by Spaced Out Looney on Aug 8, 2008 12:37:49 GMT -5
I remember doing that, too! ;D Boy, that scene brought back some memories. The excitement of staying up late, and listening in on the party and hearing/seeing your parents in a different role (not focused on you as a parent, but as a grown up with other grown ups) and so on. It always seemed so glamorous and exotic and cool. Even if it was nothing more than a coktail party in the basement, or a few people over for dinner. There was just something different and cool about it, different than say a summer get together, where all the kids are running around, playing games and eating watermelon while the grown ups sit in lawn chairs and talk and drink beer. Mom would have on a dress and perfume and dad would look different than when he went to work and it would feel . . . fancy and special. When looked at it through a kid's eyes. My favorite part about doing that was getting to hear my parents talk about me, cause I liked to hear what they had to say about me when [they thought] I wasn't listening. Of course, Don's kids didn't get a chance to hear Don and Betty talk about them.
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Mad Men
Aug 8, 2008 12:41:07 GMT -5
Post by Spaced Out Looney on Aug 8, 2008 12:41:07 GMT -5
Fighting about facts. Arguing about something that is actually one thing or another. And Pete was wrong in that last fight with his dad. Which probably to him feels like, well, the way things probably went with him. Oooooh, Joan. Something tells me Paul never saw this totally evil side of you before. Interesting. Duck wants to be the guy that Pete would have come and talked to. Offers comfort, and then. Hey - business! We'd like to do business with the airline that just caused your dad's death and we'd like you to help. Go Pete! I think I am uncomfortable. Innapropriate? Yeah, Duck, you think? Oh, crap. They're tossing Mohawk just to try for American Airlines, but no guarantee? Why do I think this is a bad idea? I suppose image is everything in advertisin, but still. Methinks this is gonna actually be a bad business decision as well as being tacky. Pete is totally lost . . . looking at Peggy . . . . Don snapping at him . . . hmmmmmm. Oooooh, revenge on Joan. Showing her age. Very interesting, what she chooses to say to Peggy. "Is it so hard to just leave everything at the door and do your job?" and "They just want you to be as miserable as they are". Hmmmmmm. This is new. Mad Med stylized factoids about the various companies that are advertising on the show. Age came up a lot, didn't it? I watched the first two episodes back to back, so I might have them merged in my mind, but I recall that in addition to pointing out how Joan is getting up there (for a woman in that era), Don is also staring down 40 and the gap is widening between his values and the "Summer of Love" type values that are fast approaching. I certainly couldn't see Don at a protest rally, could you? No, but I could imagine him watching one from the shadows.
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Mad Men
Aug 8, 2008 12:44:53 GMT -5
Post by Spaced Out Looney on Aug 8, 2008 12:44:53 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, Sara! On my second watch, I think I'm of the opinion that she is choosing not to take communion, regardless of whether or not they would let her. Something about the look on her face and so on seemed to be saying here is someone going along with her mom to keep peace/make mom happy, but only so far. But I'd be interested to hear how others read the scene. I read that scene the same as you, Lola. I think a lot of Peggy's life is about compromise and compartmentalization. At work, she is the lone woman in a room full of men--men making crude remarks about looking up a woman's skirt. She is either treated like a secretary, or told that she doesn't count, but she never shows the slightest irritation. Then she goes to visit her family, where she is pressured to conform to their values and has to face the child that she...what? gave up or had taken from her. Actually, I was surprised that she didn't give the baby up for adoption. Anyway, what I'm saying, but not very well, is that she deals with things, but only so far. Kind of like when she was making out with the guy in the hallway. She got to a certain point and then walked away. She liked being with the guy, but when he wanted more, she rejected him. I thought she had. That was what I got from the scene after she gave birth last season. But I guess there were scenes that we didn't get to see where her family was called to the hospital and they came up with this plan about what to do with the kid.
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Mad Men
Aug 9, 2008 22:58:10 GMT -5
Post by Lola m on Aug 9, 2008 22:58:10 GMT -5
Ep 2.1 The Twist. <snip> Are these just partners or a gay couple?<snip> Meditations in an Emergency. For some reason, they reminded of of the main characters in Michael Chabon's book The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, even though it was about the comic book business and not advertising. The two characters in the book are cousins, one who had immigrated from Prague, the other a native New Yorker. They work as partners to create their story and artworks. One is gay, the other straight.I suspect Rachel Mencken, but it could have been his other chickie on the side, whose name I am blanking on.The Kavalier and Clay comparison is very intriguing to me. (Loved the book, by the way.)
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Mad Men
Aug 9, 2008 23:00:16 GMT -5
Post by Lola m on Aug 9, 2008 23:00:16 GMT -5
Oh, Paul! So very much the hip guy wanna-be. ;D (Heee! And he looks like pictures of my dad in his '20's - with the pipe. ;D ) And the wives of the other young ad guys are not liking this party. Heee! Love Sal and his wife?girlfriend? totally laughing at Ken. Oh, interesting. Paul has a black ?girlfriend? Interesting little by-play between her and Joan. Joan is definitely not as happy about her life as she's been saying she is. That "office manager" comment and the fact that she's snarky about Paul. (But I love how she snarked about Paul not having a couch.) Kind of a rockin' party, isn't it? With the pot and the interracial mix and the necking in hallways and so on. Oh I like this confident and sexy version of Peggy. "I'm in the pursuasion business, and frankly I'm disappointed by your presentation." Interesting juxtaposition, Glenn with the connotation of space travel and then the plane crash. Interesting. Duck says they need to tell Don to pull the Mohawk Airlines ads and Cooper knows right away that Don already knew to do this. What news did Pete get? I bet someone he knows was on the plane. Relative? Oh. His dad. Whoa. And he went to see Don, first thing. Looked around the office and went to see Don. Because he doesn't know what to do. Inside, he really looks up to Don and sees him as the guy who'll know what to do. "Go home and be with your family." "Why?" "Because that's what people do." "Is that what you would do." "Yes." "Really? "Yes." Whoa. That's shock alright. And a bit of truth being shocked out of both of them. There's life and there's work. Yeah, might want to take your own advice there. Oh my. And American is possibly looking for another ad agency. Don has problems with this "foothold". And Don's right that American hasn't signed yet. But this just shows us the widening gap between Don and Duck. Wow. This is an uncomfortable time at Pete's parent's place. And revelations of the money troubles we heard about earlier. I thought the scenes with Pete after he found out about his father's death were perfect. I have totally been in there--something tragic happens, but at the same time, like he says, everything is still the same. Pete knew that he was supposed to do *something* but was at a loss as to what was appropriate, so he turned to Don for advice. Don was good to him--at least for the moment--comforting him and telling him how to act, Don himself acting his way through life. Then Pete finds out his father pissed all his money away. The father that looked down on him for not working in the right profession and for not having children. Will Pete have to support his mother? VK did an excellent job portraying that numbness and they way your mind can just kind of . . . stall. I'm wondering if his mom will end up living with them.
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Mad Men
Aug 9, 2008 23:16:43 GMT -5
Post by Lola m on Aug 9, 2008 23:16:43 GMT -5
Revisiting marital issues with Pete and wife. Ah, an office party? Nice Guy lives in Greenwich Village. That makes perfect sense. Parallels between Gay Guy's fake relationship and Joan's fake relationship. Ah, a racially mixed relationship. Are we in for some hateful displays of bigotry soon? Nice Guy = Paul Paul not normally known for being open minded. Peggy's job has made her more empowered? The morning after a party. Good times. Heee! Yeah, I had a lot of empathy for her there. In addition to the theme of growing older and the coming "youth culture", I think this season is also gonna have these as main themes. How far you will go to make a business succeed? And did you really need to do that? I think it in one way that was just a nice representation of Pete's mom being in that same numbed brain shock stage. But I read something on someone LJ that also suggested it was a metaphor for no one wanting to address the "elephant in the room", i.e. that no one in the family will ever really talk openly about what is going on. Like the money troubles and so on. I'm thinking the state stepped in and made things go the way they did. Not that long ago, (heck, it can happend nowadays too), a girl getting pregnant without being married was sometimes enough to be labeled "mentally ill". Amazing how that one shot of them on the stairs can take you back to childhood, isn't it? Indeedy.
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Mad Men
Aug 10, 2008 21:21:26 GMT -5
Post by Lola m on Aug 10, 2008 21:21:26 GMT -5
Obnoxious comic guy . . . will he have a further purpose? Trouble for the agency? Back to the riding stables! More hints of time passing (friend having 10 year aniversary) and temptation. "She's prettier than I imagined" and "she's about right". Also? More snark about being fat. Which makes me think we'll be getting more on this theme as well, maybe with Don and Betty's daughter? Ooooooooh! Harry got his hands on Ken's paycheck too! So, we'll see some office explosions perhaps? Over who gets paid what? And damn, he is really bad at office stealth. Ah! The more old fashioned idea of your paycheck also being allied to your life circumstances. You're married with kids, you should get more, etc. Heh! Don is sneaking out to foreign flics during the day. Wishing he'd done that run away to France plan. Heh! Harry getting advice from Sal (who is soooooo much better at this). "Do you need a fake passport too?" ;D Love how everyone is trying to dodge the blame on the problem with the comic and possibly losing the account. Freddy and Ken and Don all tossing the ball from one to the other. And who gets fired? Don's secretary. "You do not cover for me, you manage people's expectations!" "Can you be more specific?" "You really want that?" "No, I guess not." Ouch! So, she's not fired so much as "demoted" back to the switchboard. And Harry is looking for other possible jobs. Interesting conversation with the guy at the network.
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Mad Men
Aug 10, 2008 21:33:44 GMT -5
Post by Lola m on Aug 10, 2008 21:33:44 GMT -5
Nice subtle point there. Don doesn't want another Peggy as secretary, he want's someone who'll "be happy with that job" and "for the time being" that's Joan. "Wife, manager, someone should have kept him in line." "They're in NY for the weekend, why don't they just buy themselves a thicker skin?" "You are aware, that all of this can go away? No more free tuxedos." Love seeing Don spar with someone that can be as much of a hard-ass as him. Will he follow her advice on how to handle the snotty comic guy? Damn! Well, that's temptation - not being rubbed under his nose so much as being shoved down his throat. And he doesn't turn it down. What a domestic little scene. And what saucy little saying did she have engraved on his watch, I wonder?
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Mad Men
Aug 10, 2008 21:55:50 GMT -5
Post by Lola m on Aug 10, 2008 21:55:50 GMT -5
"I want it on record, she was ruined when I got to her." "Where are you?" "In my home. With my children." "Really. I like being bad and then going home and being good." Some very steamy double entendre (and frankly, single to no entendre at all) scenes in this ep! Nice. Also, it looks like he is going to take her advice about how to "handle" the snotty comic guy. "I can't figure you out." "Why would you want to do that?" Wow. What a very interesting conversation between Betty and this riding guy. Sad - grateful - the flirting (from both of them, although mostly him) - and then the final shaking of her hands as she lights the cigarette. The invite to Lutece. "Is this one where I talk or I don't talk?" "I need you to be shiny and bright. I need a better half." Whoa! They're pitching the abortion ep to Belle Jolie and asking Peggy to confirm that women will all try to watch the ep because it's contraversial. Can we say uncomfortable? "Politics are in. Women will be watching!" Interesting and significant wording from the guy as he turns it down. Impressed that they brought it to him "I wish we were a different kind of company". And Don says "we all work for someone". Kind of sums things up nicely, doesn't it? (Oh, Sal! Just jump his bones!!! ) Woo hoo!! Go Harry, with your go-get-it-ness! Head of the television department (which is comprised soley of him) and $25 more a week. Which, Harry, you could have gotten more from the way I read that meeting, but at least you had the gumption to ask.
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Mad Men
Aug 10, 2008 22:09:44 GMT -5
Post by Lola m on Aug 10, 2008 22:09:44 GMT -5
So, will this dinner work or just crash and burn? I wonder if the best way for it to go is to simply show him being obnoxious to other people and then have him give a sort of apology. That way, the client's wife would see he is basically an asshole to everyone, that's his schtick, and it wouldn't be like she was singled out. Oh, nice editing! Don leaving the table to follow Mrs. Jerk and then cutting to Harry walking through the doorway at home. Just some show, you wouldn't like it. Is he sure? The window for this apology is closing. And she smacks the contract right back at him. Wants money to get the apology. Ooooh, damn!! That's some way to, um, make your argument. Damn! Did I say this ep was steamy or what? And holy crap. How did she get him to do that apology so well? Does he think they're getting the extra money? Or did she tell him to apologize if she gave him the cue and he doesn't know why? Yeah. That's crying because you're happy. Sure looks like it to me. Hmmmm. Wanted to be part of his life, wants to be a partner. Maybe she does see this as a "happy" moment, but the two of them are sure not doing well, are they? Lollipops and roses. Damn.
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