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Post by SpringSummers on Aug 28, 2008 11:31:05 GMT -5
Just came to this thread to share quick impressions of the Dem convention thus far: THE BEST MAJOR SPEECH: Hillary, by far. Next, Michelle Obama. Next Bill C. Next Joe B. I like Biden, but was disappointed in his delivery of the speech. He can do better than that. His son, Beau Biden, was GREAT, telling Joe's story. Very genuine love and affection there. Hillary - wow! Best speech I've ever heard her give. Perfection. Wow, wow, wow. Plan to watch the Republicans next week - will be curious to see what they come up with. The Dems have such a powerful "historical" thing going on, just by the nature of whole "woman and minority" candidate thing, it's hard for the Republicans to compete on the drama, gut-level intensity, this year. But we'll see! What a year, and if I can quote Chris M quoting Tim Russert: "What a country." THE PRESS: I've been watching MS-NBC mostly, and . . . I like Obama, but I don't think I'm imaging that the press is being "too fawning" on this. I mean, I don't care how much I like a candidate, I like to see objective reporting, and I'm not getting it here, from "main" anchors Chris M and Keith O. (I don't expect it and don't want it from clearly labeled "panels," which usually have reps of different persuasions - they are supposed to be representing their biases.) Chris and Keith - I mean, I get that this is historic, and it is fine for them to point that out - in fact, they should be pointing that out. But for all their admiration for him, and despite the fact that (and I paraphrase Lloyd Benson from a distant campaign), they knew Tim, and they worked with Tim - they are no Tim Russerts. Having said all that, I am LOVING this election year, and everything about it - in many ways, even the way it's hard for press people, on either side, to restrain their passions and keep them from showing. Though I plan to vote for Obama, I have a lot of respect for McCain. He's no light-weight, and - IMO - we've still taken a big step upward, if he replaces GWB. And we've still taken a big step upward, just having such serious minority and female candidates for president this year, from a major party. I DO think the country's ready to elect a woman or a minority candidate, but . . . if we aren't, we aren't. We're still closer, which is a good thing. My biggest worry is for Obama's safety, because "what a country" has a good and bad side. Am looking forward to hearing his speech tonight. Well, enough rambling. Would love to hear anyone's impressions of this convention and the GOP convention coming up next week. I'm loving this election year, as well. Most nights over the past few months have been spent watching political shows (mostly MSNBC). Not because there's nothing else on, but because I actually want to watch. In fact, my new satellite radio I had installed in my car has been used mostly for listening to political shows, so far. And I really loved Hillary's speech. And Michelle Obama's speech. I have yet to watch Bill's or Biden's speeches. I'll be watching those tonight, along with Obama's. The more I see and hear of Biden, the more I like him. I think he was a great veep choice. I do plan on watching the the GOP convention next week. I don't want to, but it's necessary to be well-rounded and informed, I suppose. That's all my quick and dirty feelings I have at the moment. ;D Wow. That is quite different from the usual nature of the "quick and dirty" feelings you share with us. Good on you.
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Post by Rachael on Aug 28, 2008 21:32:10 GMT -5
Just came to this thread to share quick impressions of the Dem convention thus far: THE BEST MAJOR SPEECH: Hillary, by far. Agreed. Best speech she's ever given. She really brought it. Hers was very good...but I still harbor resentment for her sake for her having to make such a speech. I mean, the woman is an Ivy League-educated lawyer, a very accomplished woman in her own right, and yet she has to go on stage and try to convince America that she's a "good wife and mother" and a "patriotic American". So her husband can be President. Grr, argh. And did, the day he was announced as the veep choice. I like him more and more every day. I know I should, but I can't. I just can't. One place where we differ is our opinion of John McCain. I used to respect the man. I used to think he was what he says he is - a maverick, a Republican who thinks for himself. But since he started sidling up to the religious right (after criticizing them harshly for years), changed his opinion about wartime tax cuts, etc., etc., I've come to view him as just another Bush clone, only lacking the heavy evangelism. Frankly, I think the disaster that has been the Bush administration made it possible. We weren't ready four years ago, but we may be ready now. Because so many people have had to take a step back and reconsider their preconceptions.
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Post by SpringSummers on Aug 29, 2008 9:50:22 GMT -5
Just came to this thread to share quick impressions of the Dem convention thus far: THE BEST MAJOR SPEECH: Hillary, by far. Agreed. Best speech she's ever given. She really brought it. Hers was very good...but I still harbor resentment for her sake for her having to make such a speech. I mean, the woman is an Ivy League-educated lawyer, a very accomplished woman in her own right, and yet she has to go on stage and try to convince America that she's a "good wife and mother" and a "patriotic American". So her husband can be President. Grr, argh. And did, the day he was announced as the veep choice. I like him more and more every day. I know I should, but I can't. I just can't. One place where we differ is our opinion of John McCain. I used to respect the man. I used to think he was what he says he is - a maverick, a Republican who thinks for himself. But since he started sidling up to the religious right (after criticizing them harshly for years), changed his opinion about wartime tax cuts, etc., etc., I've come to view him as just another Bush clone, only lacking the heavy evangelism. Frankly, I think the disaster that has been the Bush administration made it possible. We weren't ready four years ago, but we may be ready now. Because so many people have had to take a step back and reconsider their preconceptions. I get what you're saying in regard to McCain, but I do think that - it is distasteful, I agree - but sorta like Michelle having to make that speech (I agree with your thoughts on that also), McCain is "doing what he has to do" to get elected. They all do some waffling and pandering, particularly to the party base. McCain has gained my respect in the past, and so far, he's not done anything to diminish that - not that I don't see the pandering as distasteful, but . . . if I held that against politicians, I couldn't vote for anybody. He still has my respect, and I have much more respect for him than I do for GWB. He doesn't have my vote, though. OBAMA'S SPEECH: Nicely, nicely done. I liked that both McCain and Obama acknowledged the amazing story of the other, with statements that seem truly genuine. Here's hoping no one hauls out the swiftboats this election year.
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Post by Rachael on Aug 29, 2008 9:55:01 GMT -5
Well. Sarah Palin.
I'd say 95% of America has no clue who she is.
She's had less than two years' experience as Governor of Alaska. Is he TRYING to undercut his own "experience" arguments?
This may be a huge mistake.
It's clearly a pander for the Hilary voters who are childishly threatening to martyr us all to their cause, though. "If you voted for Hilary just because she's a woman, and you can't let it go, well, have we got a Veep for you."
Oy.
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Post by SpringSummers on Aug 29, 2008 10:08:38 GMT -5
Well. Sarah Palin. I'd say 95% of America has no clue who she is. She's had less than two years' experience as Governor of Alaska. Is he TRYING to undercut his own "experience" arguments? This may be a huge mistake. It's clearly a pander for the Hilary voters who are childishly threatening to martyr us all to their cause, though. "If you voted for Hilary just because she's a woman, and you can't let it go, well, have we got a Veep for you." Oy. Yep. I had the exact same thoughts. McCain is taking a chance here, but I think he needs to take a chance, to win this election. Palin seems to be well known for her pro-life views, so . . . this is one risky strategy. Hillary-voters may go for the woman thing, but the pro-life thing is going to be a turn-off. He's trying to make a play for the Hillary-women AND the conservative right party-base at the same time. Quite a trick, if he can pull it off. I gotta say, the guy's got guts, because she's either going to pull in the women and conservative votes that he can't count on otherwise, or she's going to completely turn off both groups. Just as Obama "had to go vanilla" with Biden, because he himself is such an exotic flavor, McCain, who is very vanilla himself - I can see where he wanted to go with someone like Palin. Young. Female. Working class . . . He did need to make a BOLD move here, "go all in" as they say, and so . . . here we go. I do like this, in that it makes it an even more fun and interesting and "politics as unusual" election year. ETA: This sure makes the VP debates sound more interesting.
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Post by Rachael on Aug 29, 2008 10:37:53 GMT -5
Well. Sarah Palin. I'd say 95% of America has no clue who she is. She's had less than two years' experience as Governor of Alaska. Is he TRYING to undercut his own "experience" arguments? This may be a huge mistake. It's clearly a pander for the Hilary voters who are childishly threatening to martyr us all to their cause, though. "If you voted for Hilary just because she's a woman, and you can't let it go, well, have we got a Veep for you." Oy. Yep. I had the exact same thoughts. McCain is taking a chance here, but I think he needs to take a chance, to win this election. Palin seems to be well known for her pro-life views, so . . . this is one risky strategy. Hillary-voters may go for the woman thing, but the pro-life thing is going to be a turn-off. He's trying to make a play for the Hillary-women AND the conservative right party-base at the same time. Quite a trick, if he can pull it off. I gotta say, the guy's got guts, because she's either going to pull in the women and conservative votes that he can't count on otherwise, or she's going to completely turn off both groups. Just as Obama "had to go vanilla" with Biden, because he himself is such an exotic flavor, McCain, who is very vanilla himself - I can see where he wanted to go with someone like Palin. Young. Female. Working class . . . He did need to make a BOLD move here, "go all in" as they say, and so . . . here we go. I do like this, in that it makes it an even more fun and interesting and "politics as unusual" election year. ETA: This sure makes the VP debates sound more interesting. Agreed on pretty much all points. Interesting to see how it plays out....
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Aug 29, 2008 10:59:00 GMT -5
Well. Sarah Palin. I'd say 95% of America has no clue who she is. She's had less than two years' experience as Governor of Alaska. Is he TRYING to undercut his own "experience" arguments? This may be a huge mistake. It's clearly a pander for the Hilary voters who are childishly threatening to martyr us all to their cause, though. "If you voted for Hilary just because she's a woman, and you can't let it go, well, have we got a Veep for you." Oy. That was my initial reaction too, but I will have to study up on her a little in order to have a more informed opinion. At least he didn't pick Romney, because that guy really bugs me.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Aug 29, 2008 11:03:57 GMT -5
Yep. I had the exact same thoughts. McCain is taking a chance here, but I think he needs to take a chance, to win this election. Palin seems to be well known for her pro-life views, so . . . this is one risky strategy. Hillary-voters may go for the woman thing, but the pro-life thing is going to be a turn-off. He's trying to make a play for the Hillary-women AND the conservative right party-base at the same time. Quite a trick, if he can pull it off. I gotta say, the guy's got guts, because she's either going to pull in the women and conservative votes that he can't count on otherwise, or she's going to completely turn off both groups. Just as Obama "had to go vanilla" with Biden, because he himself is such an exotic flavor, McCain, who is very vanilla himself - I can see where he wanted to go with someone like Palin. Young. Female. Working class . . . He did need to make a BOLD move here, "go all in" as they say, and so . . . here we go. I do like this, in that it makes it an even more fun and interesting and "politics as unusual" election year. ETA: This sure makes the VP debates sound more interesting. Agreed on pretty much all points. Interesting to see how it plays out.... Well, that's putting it mildly. I'm afraid this may go down in history as the ugliest presidential campaign season ever. The Husband's Friday Night Pundits will be having fun, anyway. I had more things to say, but thinking about them, they were rather on the pointless angry side, so I'll refrain. Except to say that I vote on policies, not on how many X chromosomes someone has.
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Aug 29, 2008 11:16:10 GMT -5
Sarah Palin may be the only honest Republican in Alaska, but- Mayor of Wasilla and governor of Alaska is not exactly a whole lot of experience.
And: experience in Alaska, maybe excepting Fairbanks and Anchorage, is not experience as we know it. There are ways in which that state is too different from the rest of the world to make people from outside able to cope with life there, let alone people from there cope with outside.
Bold choice, as Sir Humphrey would put it.
Julia, Bold
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Post by Karen on Aug 29, 2008 11:43:53 GMT -5
Sarah Palin may be the only honest Republican in Alaska, but- Mayor of Wasilla and governor of Alaska is not exactly a whole lot of experience. And: experience in Alaska, maybe excepting Fairbanks and Anchorage, is not experience as we know it. There are ways in which that state is too different from the rest of the world to make people from outside able to cope with life there, let alone people from there cope with outside. Bold choice, as Sir Humphrey would put it. Julia, BoldBold, but you really got to question his judgement (and hers) on this one. Ok - now my question is probably going to sound very wrong on many levels to a lot of people, but why would a mother, with a 4 month old baby with Downs Syndrome, take on the responsibility of the Vice Presidency? It seems wrong to me. Priorities. Sometimes they might not jive with your plans, and that's when you have to step up and be adult enough to accept it. Plus, McCain is what, 72? With some health problems. I don't know how much confidence I have in trusting her to run the country if she had to. Yikes.
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Post by Rachael on Aug 29, 2008 13:03:04 GMT -5
Agreed on pretty much all points. Interesting to see how it plays out.... Well, that's putting it mildly. I'm afraid this may go down in history as the ugliest presidential campaign season ever. The Husband's Friday Night Pundits will be having fun, anyway. I had more things to say, but thinking about them, they were rather on the pointless angry side, so I'll refrain. Except to say that I vote on policies, not on how many X chromosomes someone has. Well, yeah...I sorta want to send John McCain a two-word e-mail: "Nice try." She's meant to cover a bunch of flaws - she's blue-collar, so she can cover the "he has 8 houses and thinks the economy is fine" flaw...she's pro-life and deeply religious, so he hopes to score with the religious right...the woman thing we've been over, and I'm not sure the "disaffected Hilary supporters" are much more than a media construct, myself...oh, and she's married to a Native Alaskan, to address the minority thing. And she's young. Very. Thing is, Julia's right - bold choice. Sort of like an internet stock pick, though - high risk, high reward. The bit where she undermines the McCain campaign's primary negative talking point is a bit perplexing, though.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Aug 29, 2008 13:41:32 GMT -5
Well, that's putting it mildly. I'm afraid this may go down in history as the ugliest presidential campaign season ever. The Husband's Friday Night Pundits will be having fun, anyway. I had more things to say, but thinking about them, they were rather on the pointless angry side, so I'll refrain. Except to say that I vote on policies, not on how many X chromosomes someone has. Well, yeah...I sorta want to send John McCain a two-word e-mail: "Nice try." She's meant to cover a bunch of flaws - she's blue-collar, so she can cover the "he has 8 houses and thinks the economy is fine" flaw...she's pro-life and deeply religious, so he hopes to score with the religious right...the woman thing we've been over, and I'm not sure the "disaffected Hilary supporters" are much more than a media construct, myself...oh, and she's married to a Native Alaskan, to address the minority thing. And she's young. Very. Thing is, Julia's right - bold choice. Sort of like an internet stock pick, though - high risk, high reward. The bit where she undermines the McCain campaign's primary negative talking point is a bit perplexing, though. They're trying to spin it, from what I've heard on KPCC, that Palin's limited experience is more presidentially useful than Obama's. Also that women are sure to cross over because "most women are pro-life". They also want to canonize Palin because she knew her baby had Down's and didn't terminate the pregnancy. Having had an amnio on my second time, we considered the possibility while waiting for the results, and would probably have kept the baby even if the test had been positive, all other things being workable. That's what being pro-choice means, in my opinion. Nice. Try. My head is about to explode, especially after a Republican commentator's response to a pro-choice Democratic woman caller, who said that nothing would make her vote for McCain, was that West Hollywood (where she was from) isn't significant, doesn't count, and won't make any difference. He then extended that to the rest of the West Coast. Okay. I'm leaving now, before I say something really stupid.
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Post by Rachael on Aug 29, 2008 14:06:12 GMT -5
Well, yeah...I sorta want to send John McCain a two-word e-mail: "Nice try." She's meant to cover a bunch of flaws - she's blue-collar, so she can cover the "he has 8 houses and thinks the economy is fine" flaw...she's pro-life and deeply religious, so he hopes to score with the religious right...the woman thing we've been over, and I'm not sure the "disaffected Hilary supporters" are much more than a media construct, myself...oh, and she's married to a Native Alaskan, to address the minority thing. And she's young. Very. Thing is, Julia's right - bold choice. Sort of like an internet stock pick, though - high risk, high reward. The bit where she undermines the McCain campaign's primary negative talking point is a bit perplexing, though. They're trying to spin it, from what I've heard on KPCC, that Palin's limited experience is more presidentially useful than Obama's. Also that women are sure to cross over because "most women are pro-life". Erm. In which variant of America is that true? Here's the latest Gallup Poll on that issue - May 2008. Slightly more women are pro-choice if you take the totals, but if you look at who they're trying to "swing" their way - Independents and Democrats - the totals show a 16 - 24 point advantage on the pro-choice side. Says to me there IS no swing vote to be had on that issue. www.gallup.com/poll/107458/Abortion-Issue-Laying-Low-2008-Campaign.aspxWell, but he has to say that, doesn't he? The Republican strategist on this morning's Forum on KQED was much more honest. He thinks it's possibly brilliant, but incredibly dangerous.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Aug 29, 2008 17:26:17 GMT -5
They're trying to spin it, from what I've heard on KPCC, that Palin's limited experience is more presidentially useful than Obama's. Also that women are sure to cross over because "most women are pro-life". Erm. In which variant of America is that true? Here's the latest Gallup Poll on that issue - May 2008. Slightly more women are pro-choice if you take the totals, but if you look at who they're trying to "swing" their way - Independents and Democrats - the totals show a 16 - 24 point advantage on the pro-choice side. Says to me there IS no swing vote to be had on that issue. www.gallup.com/poll/107458/Abortion-Issue-Laying-Low-2008-Campaign.aspxWell, but he has to say that, doesn't he?The Republican strategist on this morning's Forum on KQED was much more honest. He thinks it's possibly brilliant, but incredibly dangerous. Not just what he said, but also how he said it: Speaking over the caller so she couldn't finish her point, then continuing to insult not only her, but everyone else within range.
I expect that kind of rude dismissiveness on Fox News, but not on NPR, or, for that matter, PBS. The general tone of discourse is descending to playground level - the one who yells the loudest and keeps opposing viewpoints from speaking wins, whether that one is correct or not.
As I said, it's going to be an ugly campaign season. In fact, it already is.
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Post by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 17:51:58 GMT -5
Very interesting. I like Palin as a choice, and I don't like McCain but respect him. But then, I'm a right-winger.
It's a historic election, and my congratulations go to the Democrats for their historic choice, as well as to the Republicans for theirs.
Obama's stated he wants me to get a new job in 10 years. I need 15 to retire, and I suspect he'll hurt my chances to ever retire.
But, my faith is in a Higher Power, and regardless of the results this November I'll make the best of it. Some will rejoice, some will mourn. The cynic in me says, after all, nothing much will change.
And, having done my part for diversity on this thread but having no desire to argue, I will leave again for a good long while.
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