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Post by William the Bloody on Sept 6, 2003 16:51:52 GMT -5
Written by Joss Whedon Directed by Joss Whedon Ait date: 5/12/98
Kendra returns to help Buffy when Angel plots to revive an ancient demon bent on sweeping everything on Earth into Hell itself.
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Alexandra
S'cubie
Founder
"You never had it so good as me. Never."
Posts: 108
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Post by Alexandra on Jan 28, 2004 22:44:04 GMT -5
How did Angel, Dru and the extra vampires manage to move the giant stone "coffin" (aka Acathla)? I know vampires are strong, but that strong?
I think a suspension of disbelief is necessary...
Alexandra
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Post by Lola m on Jul 24, 2005 15:26:08 GMT -5
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 24, 2005 18:57:53 GMT -5
Thoughts about Becoming 1. So much to love.
I love Whistler. I wish we could have seen more of him.
I love Angel's leering smile as he watches Buffy at the end of the teaser.
I always like to think about how the decision to reveal HumanAngel and Angel's origins at this point in the narrative. How does this affect the audience's (an audience watching the show the first time) perception of Angel. How would it have been different if the flashbacks had been shown in the episode "Angel" for instance?
I love love love the Angel-Dru confession scene to pieces, especially with Angel's hand on the grate at the end. I love the cut from dark dark NYC to bright bright LA.
Upon rewatching the episode recently, it occurred to me that the flashback where the Watcher tells Buffy she's The Chosen One plays very much like a valley girl version of the angel Gabriel (?) telling the Virgin Mary she's going to give birth to Jesus. I thought that was neat.
One thing I always found interesting: Angel's reaction (tortured panting) to getting his soul back is different than Spike (screams with pain). Is it because of the spell vs no spell, difference in temperaments, or what?
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Post by SpringSummers on Jul 24, 2005 20:21:40 GMT -5
Thoughts about Becoming 1. So much to love. I love Whistler. I wish we could have seen more of him. I love Angel's leering smile as he watches Buffy at the end of the teaser. I always like to think about how the decision to reveal HumanAngel and Angel's origins at this point in the narrative. How does this affect the audience's (an audience watching the show the first time) perception of Angel. How would it have been different if the flashbacks had been shown in the episode "Angel" for instance? I love love love the Angel-Dru confession scene to pieces, especially with Angel's hand on the grate at the end. I love the cut from dark dark NYC to bright bright LA. Upon rewatching the episode recently, it occurred to me that the flashback where the Watcher tells Buffy she's The Chosen One plays very much like a valley girl version of the angel Gabriel (?) telling the Virgin Mary she's going to give birth to Jesus. I thought that was neat. One thing I always found interesting: Angel's reaction (tortured panting) to getting his soul back is different than Spike (screams with pain). Is it because of the spell vs no spell, difference in temperaments, or what? That whole "virgin Mary and the message from an angel" imagery is repeated in . . . can't remember the name of the ep . . . the season 7 ep where we watch those "three wise men" (that's what they look like to me) try to force that . . . thing up Buffy's skirt.
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Post by Lola m on Jul 25, 2005 20:18:12 GMT -5
Thoughts about Becoming 1. So much to love. I love Whistler. I wish we could have seen more of him. Me too. Interesting question. I tend to think these flashbacks are placed specifically here to re-build our love and sympathy for Angel, while also reminding us just how terrible Angelus is. So that we really understand both sides of the Xander & Buffy argument. Because actually seeing slices of his life and unlife make it more real - like Fool for Love is for Spike. In Angel, they might have been . . . too specific for that moment. Too revealing. Oh my yes! Angelus talking about her being a Devil child and that there's no hope and the Lord is going to smiter her, and then that final very creepy "God is watching you" bit. Perfect! Hmmmmmm. I never thought of that before. I'd tend to think it is something particularly painful about the way the demon put the soul back, but now that you mention it, temperament could account for it as well.
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Post by Lola m on Jul 25, 2005 20:20:48 GMT -5
Thoughts about Becoming 1. So much to love. I love Whistler. I wish we could have seen more of him. I love Angel's leering smile as he watches Buffy at the end of the teaser. I always like to think about how the decision to reveal HumanAngel and Angel's origins at this point in the narrative. How does this affect the audience's (an audience watching the show the first time) perception of Angel. How would it have been different if the flashbacks had been shown in the episode "Angel" for instance? I love love love the Angel-Dru confession scene to pieces, especially with Angel's hand on the grate at the end. I love the cut from dark dark NYC to bright bright LA. Upon rewatching the episode recently, it occurred to me that the flashback where the Watcher tells Buffy she's The Chosen One plays very much like a valley girl version of the angel Gabriel (?) telling the Virgin Mary she's going to give birth to Jesus. I thought that was neat. One thing I always found interesting: Angel's reaction (tortured panting) to getting his soul back is different than Spike (screams with pain). Is it because of the spell vs no spell, difference in temperaments, or what? That whole "virgin Mary and the message from an angel" imagery is repeated in . . . can't remember the name of the ep . . . the season 7 ep where we watch those "three wise men" (that's what they look like to me) try to force that . . . thing up Buffy's skirt. Oh, yeah! The Shadow Men. Them and their "power" and staffs ("I knew it. It's always the staff.") and stuff.
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Post by Queen E on Jul 26, 2005 15:16:38 GMT -5
Thoughts about Becoming 1. So much to love. I love Whistler. I wish we could have seen more of him. I love Angel's leering smile as he watches Buffy at the end of the teaser. I always like to think about how the decision to reveal HumanAngel and Angel's origins at this point in the narrative. How does this affect the audience's (an audience watching the show the first time) perception of Angel. How would it have been different if the flashbacks had been shown in the episode "Angel" for instance? I love love love the Angel-Dru confession scene to pieces, especially with Angel's hand on the grate at the end. I love the cut from dark dark NYC to bright bright LA. Upon rewatching the episode recently, it occurred to me that the flashback where the Watcher tells Buffy she's The Chosen One plays very much like a valley girl version of the angel Gabriel (?) telling the Virgin Mary she's going to give birth to Jesus. I thought that was neat. One thing I always found interesting: Angel's reaction (tortured panting) to getting his soul back is different than Spike (screams with pain). Is it because of the spell vs no spell, difference in temperaments, or what? That whole "virgin Mary and the message from an angel" imagery is repeated in . . . can't remember the name of the ep . . . the season 7 ep where we watch those "three wise men" (that's what they look like to me) try to force that . . . thing up Buffy's skirt. Ah, that would be "Get it Done."
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Post by Karen on Jul 26, 2005 19:36:30 GMT -5
One of my favorite scenes:
Angelus: I will drink... the blood will wash in me, over me, and I will be cleansed. I will be worthy to free Acathla. Bear witness... as I ascend... as I become. Everything that I am, everything that I have done, has led me here. I have strayed, I have been lost. But Acathla redeems me. With this act, we will be free.
(grabs the hilt of the sword, but it rejects him)
SPIKE: (sing-song) Someone wasn't worthy.
LOL! Spike and Angel. You gotta love them together.
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Post by Lola m on Jul 28, 2005 7:24:34 GMT -5
One of my favorite scenes: Angelus: I will drink... the blood will wash in me, over me, and I will be cleansed. I will be worthy to free Acathla. Bear witness... as I ascend... as I become. Everything that I am, everything that I have done, has led me here. I have strayed, I have been lost. But Acathla redeems me. With this act, we will be free.
(grabs the hilt of the sword, but it rejects him)
SPIKE: (sing-song) Someone wasn't worthy.
LOL! Spike and Angel. You gotta love them together. Love their snarking at each other! With more of an edge, more real nastiness than we'll see later in AtS season 5. The way Angel smacks the back of Spike's head as he walks past, the snotty comments back and forth (sit n'spin, none of them has a rock this big, etc.).
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Post by Lola m on Jul 28, 2005 7:36:50 GMT -5
I love all the little things that point the way to the future in Becoming . . .
Giles not wanting Willow to do the re-ensouling spell because one that powerful might be "opening a door you may not be able to close".
The fact that blood is the only thing that opens and can close a portal that will suck the world into a hell dimension and that Angel has to be "killed" (OK, he's not really killed, he's stabbed so his blood going into the portal and then disappearing with him into the hell dimension means that the portal closes, or something like that, but still!!). Can we say Dawn, people?
(Portals are much bloodier in BtVS than in AtS, aren't they? All you need is a book with the right sayings and math in the Angelverse and, boom! One portal coming up! Plus? Not so much with the total hell on earth thing and more with just interdimensional travel - granted, to places that vary in their hellishness, but still.)
Whistler talks to Angel in New York and says stuff like "if you lived in the world a little bit" you'd "become a person" and talks about how he has to become "a part of the world". So, it's good to know that TPTB really did have a main message they kept trying Angel to get through multiple messengers. (Whistler, Doyle)
I love Whistler's lines about: " So what are we, helpless? Puppets? No. The big moments are gonna come. You can't help that. It's what you do afterwards that counts. That's when you find out who you are." Makes you think of several great speeches on AtS along the same lines, doesn't it? Plus the whole recurring puppet theme.
The throwaway line by Buffy that is rather shiver-inducing now, when she is telling Joyce about being the slayer and says "I'm not crazy".
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Post by Onjel on Jul 28, 2005 9:52:00 GMT -5
I love all the little things that point the way to the future in Becoming . . . Giles not wanting Willow to do the re-ensouling spell because one that powerful might be "opening a door you may not be able to close". The fact that blood is the only thing that opens and can close a portal that will suck the world into a hell dimension and that Angel has to be "killed" (OK, he's not really killed, he's stabbed so his blood going into the portal and then disappearing with him into the hell dimension means that the portal closes, or something like that, but still!!). Can we say Dawn, people? (Portals are much bloodier in BtVS than in AtS, aren't they? All you need is a book with the right sayings and math in the Angelverse and, boom! One portal coming up! Plus? Not so much with the total hell on earth thing and more with just interdimensional travel - granted, to places that vary in their hellishness, but still.) Whistler talks to Angel in New York and says stuff like "if you lived in the world a little bit" you'd "become a person" and talks about how he has to become "a part of the world". So, it's good to know that TPTB really did have a main message they kept trying Angel to get through multiple messengers. (Whistler, Doyle) I love Whistler's lines about: " So what are we, helpless? Puppets? No. The big moments are gonna come. You can't help that. It's what you do afterwards that counts. That's when you find out who you are." Makes you think of several great speeches on AtS along the same lines, doesn't it? Plus the whole recurring puppet theme. The throwaway line by Buffy that is rather shiver-inducing now, when she is telling Joyce about being the slayer and says "I'm not crazy". Yes, yes, yes! *bounce bounce* Soooo much good snarkiness and foreshadowing! We miss the foreshadowing seeing it the first time, and it's so great to see all the seasons and look back on the little bits of things to come in the earlier episodes!
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Post by Moscow Watcher on Jul 31, 2005 13:46:52 GMT -5
Re Foreshadowing
In hindsight I realise that for Joss Becoming 1 became sort of AtS pilot.
When I watched Becoming 1 for the first time I was struck by writer's quirky idea to devote practically the whole episode to Angel's past. But later it made sense creative-wise. Joss told in the commentaries that he started thinking about spinning off The Angel Show after watching DB acting in IOHEFY. Becoming 1 script is dated March 9, 1998. The shooting of IONEFY ended around the same time.
TV Tome imforms that when this episode was repeated on September 15, 1998, it was presented with an altered first scene. There are several subtle differences, but the most noticeable is that Max Perlich provides the voice-over for that scene, rather than David Boreanaz as it was the first time the episode aired. Whistler speaks of "our side"/ Curiously this line is absent in the script. Obviously it's a foreshadowing to the "Powers That Be" in the spinoff "Angel."
By the end on Becoming 1 we get all we need to know about Angel to start watching his show. We see many key players (Darla, Whistler who turned into Doyle because of actor's unavailability). We see the theme established.
And in Becoming 2 we get the replacement for Angel. Spike.
For me - Spuffy freak - the most endearing aspect of the episode is Whedon's ability to domesticate Spike in three short scenes. Spike appears in the very end of act 1. By the beginning of act 3 Spike\Buffy alliance looks absolutely natural.
It's interesting to rewatch Spike and Joyce scene in hindsight, when we know how much Spike understands Buffy situation with her mother - when you are the only child and your mother is the only parent and she's all you have and you're all she has and the bond between you is very strong and you don't want to disappoint your mother but you have to confess that you're not an ordinary person. This scene is quasi-bookended in LMPTM when William comes home and announces to his mother that he became a vampire.
Doubly interesting to see how neatly Buffy and Spike complement each other in fight and how they understand each other immediately when Buffy lies to Joyce that they are in a band (they look like a pair of mischievous teenagers, IMHO).
In the next scene Spike becomes the witness of Buffy's confession to her mother about her slayer duties. It's one of the most important moments in Buffy's life - and Spike is with her.
When she invites him into her home he has a funny "small talk" with her mother. Plot-wise the scene is absolutely unnecessary. Common sense would tell Buffy to leave Spike on the back porch while dealing with Joyce and talking with Willow. Yet Whedon "invites" Spike in Buffy house.
Why?
I think it was kind of "screen test". Whedon wanted to see and evaluate Spike as somebody who can be close to Buffy. And he passed the test brilliantly.
Yes, Joss uttered his infamous "no more vampires!" in the end of season 3 when SMG asked about the possibility of pairing Buffy with Spike. But I think that, when a great writer/director watches two great actors playing, he can't stop imagining them together in other kind of scenes. It's a tricky thing, author's imagination.
What I find extremely interesting - that JM is obviously UNDERPLAYING to let SMG shine. When you read the script, there are some moments where Spike is supposed to glare, to demonstrate other intense emotions - but JM demonstrates self-restraint and plays very reservedly. His acting says "its all about Buffy".
Actor's instinct? Pure generosity? Maybe both?
And, boy, his decision payed off. Today the very matter-of-factness jf Spike's decision to seek Slayer's help looks like a beautiful foreboding of things to come.
Some random thoughts.
SMG also is great. The actor's strength is his capability to be convincing in extreme emotional situation, to make esoteric accessible. And she never fails. Buffy sends her lover to hell, and we believe her reactions. In Joss' heightened reality she acts absolutely naturally.
When Buffy finds the diskette she also does it at the second try. Brilliant portending Angel's re-souling at the second try.
The most poignant bookending in Becoming 1-2 is "close your eyes" uttered in the beginning by Darla as she kills Angel for the first time at the beginning and in the end by Buffy as she kills him for the second time.
Interestingly, Angel (the artist!) twice dies with his eyes closed while Spike in Chosen says "I want to see how it ends".
Then again, I read somewhere that this line was Whedon's final warning to spoiler hos. ;D
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Post by Lola m on Jul 31, 2005 19:42:23 GMT -5
Re Foreshadowing In hindsight I realise that for Joss Becoming 1 became sort of AtS pilot. When I watched Becoming 1 for the first time I was struck by writer's quirky idea to devote practically the whole episode to Angel's past. But later it made creative-wise. Joss told in the commentaries that he started thinking about spinning off The Angel Show after watching DB acting in IOHEFY. Becoming 1 script is dated March 9, 1998. The shooting of IONEFY ended around the same time. Yup. It really does fit, both the timing and the story / filming decisions. **nods** The two characters really do click from the moment they meet. (One of the reasons their first fight in "School Hard" is just so amazing to watch for me is this . . . instant chemistry.) And you are right that this first instance of them working together, teaming up, is just so natural. Heck, they're practically finishing each other sentences. That is a very lovely way of viewing this scene. It really fits the whole Spike & Joyce relationship, doesn't it? ;D Loved reading your thoughts on this ep, Moscow Watcher!
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Post by KMInfinity on Jul 31, 2005 23:08:46 GMT -5
Random Thoughts
*Tons of great points about significant events, character development, foreshadowing of the future, etc. I'd have to repost the entire thread and after every other line add "YES!" or ::nodding with heartfelt agreement::
*ITA Moscow Watcher, that JM's underplaying helps strengthen the scenes. It's pretty clear he and SMG have terrific chemistry.
*For some reason, my captioning lists the narrator as Oz instead of Whistler. Weird.
*One thing that I especially paid attention to was the relationship with Xander and Willow. (especailly after the discussion last week in Selfless concerning how this stuff kinda sinks into the background of their friendship.) Xander saves Willow for the first time by saying he loves her, to be repeated in S6? And then Oz enters.......
*I love the whole rationale Spike gives for not wanting the world to end. He's still more human than vampire, after all his 100+years of experience.
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