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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Jan 17, 2009 12:35:20 GMT -5
As someone who hasn't yet watched any BSG (although I've read all your comments with great interest), I was just wondering if this episode relates at all to the Ken Kesey novel of the same name. I really will get around to it, one of these years... Speaking as someone who's basically memorised that book, not so much- except in that both draw some central thesmes from the song. Also, unlike in Kesey's book nobody decided to have one last toke in the middle of committing suicide and blows up the house; this is a real-life anectdote, I actually know the name of the guy who tried it (he's still alive, and I'm not spilling). When Kesey was Artist in Residence at Evergreen, I asked him about it and we did five minutes of degrees of separation. Ken Kesey is about the only writer who got what my childhood environment was like. Julia, stopping before I start ranting about how "regionalism" usually means "not like the world within ten miles of Ivy League English departments.
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Post by Karen on Jan 17, 2009 20:08:02 GMT -5
As someone who hasn't yet watched any BSG (although I've read all your comments with great interest), I was just wondering if this episode relates at all to the Ken Kesey novel of the same name. I really will get around to it, one of these years... Speaking as someone who's basically memorised that book, not so much- except in that both draw some central thesmes from the song. Also, unlike in Kesey's book nobody decided to have one last toke in the middle of committing suicide and blows up the house; this is a real-life anectdote, I actually know the name of the guy who tried it (he's still alive, and I'm not spilling). When Kesey was Artist in Residence at Evergreen, I asked him about it and we did five minutes of degrees of separation. . Ken Kesey is about the only writer, who got what my childhood environment was like. Julia, stopping before I start ranting about how "regionalism" usually means "not like the world within ten miles of Ivy League English departments. Hee! Speaking of last tokes, we totally thought that Roslyn should have went there. But burning the book was a good metaphor for burning the past and somehow paralled Kara's burning of herself. Which as Sara commented - we can't imagine what that felt like. A mind boggling episode, this. What I don't get is if Kara isn't the 5th Cylon, then how and why is she existing?
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Post by Karen on Jan 17, 2009 20:21:36 GMT -5
i also liked how you cut to all these people listening to adama's speech and then on to roslin curled up in a ball on the floor, appearing to ignore him as the speech piped into her room. and on to kara holding the tag behind her bag, with the camera's focus on the tag rather than on kara. just thought it was a neat contrast. also? the FRAK EARTH graffiti was kind of funny in its succinctness. ;D Hee! I chuckled at that, too. So very human.
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Jan 17, 2009 20:32:46 GMT -5
Speaking as someone who's basically memorised that book, not so much- except in that both draw some central thesmes from the song. Also, unlike in Kesey's book nobody decided to have one last toke in the middle of committing suicide and blows up the house; this is a real-life anectdote, I actually know the name of the guy who tried it (he's still alive, and I'm not spilling). When Kesey was Artist in Residence at Evergreen, I asked him about it and we did five minutes of degrees of separation. . Ken Kesey is about the only writer, who got what my childhood environment was like. Julia, stopping before I start ranting about how "regionalism" usually means "not like the world within ten miles of Ivy League English departments. Hee! Speaking of last tokes, we totally thought that Roslyn should have went there. But burning the book was a good metaphor for burning the past and somehow paralled Kara's burning of herself. Which as Sara commented - we can't imagine what that felt like. A mind boggling episode, this. What I don't get is if Kara isn't the 5th Cylon, then how and why is she existing? Exactly- whatever it is, it's weird enough to freak Leoben out, which isn't easy to do. Resurection, reincarnation, or revivification? Julia, or some weird splitting of universes?
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Post by Sue on Jan 17, 2009 23:12:26 GMT -5
How, exactly, does one distinguish a cylon, particularly a hybrid, particularly one that can grow and age, from a human?
Wasn't that in the very earliest of episodes? Baltar claimed to have a test but he was faking it?
And, if you can't tell one from the other; and since apparently they have the free will to be loyal to either side----then what the heck is the difference?
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Jan 18, 2009 0:22:54 GMT -5
How, exactly, does one distinguish a cylon, particularly a hybrid, particularly one that can grow and age, from a human? Wasn't that in the very earliest of episodes? Baltar claimed to have a test but he was faking it? And, if you can't tell one from the other; and since apparently they have the free will to be loyal to either side----then what the heck is the difference? What bothers me is that as soon as it was determined that skin jobs and humans can reproduce, the line got too blurry to pay any attention to (if the offspring are fertile, it disappears entirely) Julia, this has bothered me for the past three seasons
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Post by Sue on Jan 18, 2009 9:34:34 GMT -5
How, exactly, does one distinguish a cylon, particularly a hybrid, particularly one that can grow and age, from a human? Wasn't that in the very earliest of episodes? Baltar claimed to have a test but he was faking it? And, if you can't tell one from the other; and since apparently they have the free will to be loyal to either side----then what the heck is the difference? What bothers me is that as soon as it was determined that skin jobs and humans can reproduce, the line got too blurry to pay any attention to (if the offspring are fertile, it disappears entirely) Julia, this has bothered me for the past three seasons And the metal versions seem to be nothing more than robots---not much (any?) higher thinking going on there.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jan 18, 2009 9:39:18 GMT -5
teaser
Earth. Still looks like Vancouver.
If you know that things are radioactive, maybe it's not such a great idea to be putting your hands in the water and playing with the plants. Just saying.
Nuked 2,000 years ago. Right when the 13th colony arrived? Or a couple thousand years after?
A pocketwatch. and jacks. Hmm.
Now they get to break the news to the fleet. Fun!
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jan 18, 2009 9:51:45 GMT -5
Part I
Kara and Leoben investigating. You know, I still have a problem with them working together so casual like after all the shit that he did to her.
Wow, the wreckage is Kara's ship? That's fucked up. What the hell is going on?
A cute domestic scene. Does Dee wish she had children?
Back on the planet. Corpses. And Cylons. But the design from the old series.
The 13th tribe was Cylon. Wait, what?
Tyrol's spidey sense is tingling.
Flashback!!! Cool.
So this consciousness being passed down theory is looking pretty good.
Dee and Lee are actually being unannoying with each other.
And there's Kara's shuttle and corpse. And Leoben already seems to know this. How does Leoben know what he knows and how did Kara get to be alive again?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jan 18, 2009 10:02:33 GMT -5
Part II
A guitar.
I wonder if Dee is the final cylon since she reacted to the watch and the jacks.
Anders is Jimmi Hendrix? Or Bob Dylan?
Roslin is burning the scriptures? Just because part of it's wrong doesn't mean that the book doesn't have any wisdom to impart.
Mary McDonnell is breaking my heart here.
Ooh, great cut.
Dude, I wouldn't burn the corpse, no matter how freaky it is. You don't know what clues you're getting rid of.
And nice parallel between Roslin burning the book and Kara burning the corpse/herself.
Dee's still more into Lee than he is into her. I like Dee better, but I still don't get her motivations from before.
Yeah, Dee's the Final Cylon. Except isn't she part of the fleet?
Holy Crap!!
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jan 18, 2009 10:08:52 GMT -5
Part III The Adama boys over Dee's corpse. Adama's going to unleash some whoop ass? On who? People can't resist the urge to fist fight. Clearly, the fleet's falling apart. Adama and Tigh have a "heart to heart." Whoa, Adama is seriously fucked up.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jan 18, 2009 10:09:09 GMT -5
Part IV
Lead them where, Saul? Yeah, that's the question, isn't it?
39, 651 survivors.
Kara and Lee.
Adama tries to rally the troops.
D'Anna's going to stay behind, isn't she?
Is there a civilization underneath the water?
Ellen! So Ellen is the Final Cylon? Then what was Dee's deal, then?
Everything is in place. So they really did have a plan. Heh.
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Post by Onjel on Jan 18, 2009 10:23:11 GMT -5
How, exactly, does one distinguish a cylon, particularly a hybrid, particularly one that can grow and age, from a human? Wasn't that in the very earliest of episodes? Baltar claimed to have a test but he was faking it? And, if you can't tell one from the other; and since apparently they have the free will to be loyal to either side----then what the heck is the difference? My theory is that humans are cylons and vice versa and it's all been one big myth to keep everyone fighting for some damn reason. It's just that cylon "skin jobs" were clones of their human progenitors, long since dead. Not that I have the slightest idea what I'm talking about but the same things that have been bothering Julia have been irking me.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jan 18, 2009 11:50:13 GMT -5
that was a great transition. fire to fire. i also liked how often the shots were framed in this episode to have one person in the foreground and one or more in the background (with the background person sometimes the one in focus), or to have two people in silhouette. i thought it was very interesting visually.Oh, yes! This was so nicely put together that I want to watch it again without a keyboard under my fingers, so I can give the composition the full attention it deserves.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jan 18, 2009 11:51:19 GMT -5
i also liked how you cut to all these people listening to adama's speech and then on to roslin curled up in a ball on the floor, appearing to ignore him as the speech piped into her room. and on to kara holding the tag behind her bag, with the camera's focus on the tag rather than on kara. just thought it was a neat contrast. also? the FRAK EARTH graffiti was kind of funny in its succinctness. ;D Oh, no, I missed that.
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