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Post by Sue on Feb 16, 2009 10:22:47 GMT -5
Bringing over one post from the main thread where I capsulized my primary observations: Excellent semi-primer on Dollhouse concept. watching-tv.ew.com/2009/02/dollhouse-termi.htmlDollhouse Commentary 1. Is it just me or did Adelle (head of Dollhouse) remind anyone else of Faith's crazy watcher-lady? 2. Not a fan of the techno-imprinter guy (someone else, maybe Liz?) made that observation. Of course, maybe we really aren't supposed to be a fan of his. 3. If he's not onscreen, Harry Lennix sounds a lot like Pres. Obama, IMO. 4. If the cameras add 10 pounds then ED is, again IMO, a bit too think. She's gotten, like SBG in later season, boobless. 5. I'm willing to wait and see about this claim of acting "versatility" on the part of ED, and maybe it's just because she's still mostly "Faith" to me, but I had a really hard time buying her as the hostage negotiator.
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Post by Sue on Feb 16, 2009 10:24:38 GMT -5
Oh and this one too.
(Not because I think the comments are terribly brilliant but because they contain ongoing plot points that I want to follow for explanation.)
Somebody listed 3 major questions to be investigated, but I think there is a 4th:
Where and how so they get the maps of the personalities that they impose? [Which also speaks to how they keep such a low profile as to be part "myth" in law enforcement. I get that anyone hiring them would keep it quiet by if it's that unknown I don't see people seeking them out to volunteer their brain-maps. So how are they getting brain maps from very exclusive people like hostage negotiators, assassins, etc.
Also, way less major, I'm curious about the asthma. He said that he fiddled with the input from the eyes to the brain to make her near-sighted (or maybe the map does that---which I thought was a VERY interesting exchange----that perhaps one does not achieve one's potential in one area unless hampered by drawbacks in another. I have a brilliant nephew, but he is also very athletic. His parents always emphasized the athletics. So my brother just mentioned his SAT scores and, while highly respectable, IMO, nothing like what they might have been (given the promise he showed at a very early age) had their primary emphasis (or, really, any emphasis) been on his academic development/achievement. No way to know of course and I am NOT saying that one is superior to the other, just wondering. I mean, there is only so much time and ambition in one life....)
Anyway......back to: since her LUNGS weren't actually compromised (?) could she have actually died from an asthma attack, or, had she passed out due to lack of oxygen and "taken her brain offline" would her lungs have worked perfectly well. Minor point, but potentially interesting.
There must be something here. This is the most I've had to say about a TV program in a long time.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 16, 2009 13:21:26 GMT -5
Here's my lj post about Dollhouse: So I was kind of dreading watching this because all the reviews were bad and the concept sounded stupid and so on and so on. And I have to say, it wasn't as bad as I expected. I ended up being pleasantly surprised. Yea, it was a bit bland and the thing I miss the most is the snark. Where oh where is the snark? I need the snark Joss. Can the Asian doll be snarky? Cause I loved her. As for ED's performance - eh. It was okay. She's no Jennifer Garner and I still saw Faith every time I saw her. Note to costuming department - that dress she was dancing in was a wee bit short. I kept worrying that we were going to get a full frontal there. I am curious about the ending which was awesome so points for leaving the viewer wanting more. Amy Acker felt pointless to me and the scars were very distracting. The head guys were very one note. I did like Echo's handler and I think I'll like Helo/FBI dude (you can see how well the names sunk in - hee!) Anyway, I'll be back. Oh, wait. Was the geisha chick a doll? I totally didn't put that together, though I probably should have. I'm guessing that there's probably some kind of back story that's going to be revealed for Amy Acker. Her scars wouldn't have been deliberately pointed out in the episode if there wasn't some kind of mystery there.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 18, 2009 15:20:59 GMT -5
I thought this review had some interesting meta analysis about the premise of the show.
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Post by Sue on Feb 18, 2009 18:47:24 GMT -5
For anyone who comes along later looking for additional Dollhouse discussion go the the Archives: Old Parts Home and look up part 1035.
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Post by Karen on Feb 18, 2009 20:43:06 GMT -5
Bringing over one post from the main thread where I capsulized my primary observations: Excellent semi-primer on Dollhouse concept. watching-tv.ew.com/2009/02/dollhouse-termi.htmlDollhouse Commentary 1. Is it just me or did Adelle (head of Dollhouse) remind anyone else of Faith's crazy watcher-lady?2. Not a fan of the techno-imprinter guy (someone else, maybe Liz?) made that observation. Of course, maybe we really aren't supposed to be a fan of his. 3. If he's not onscreen, Harry Lennix sounds a lot like Pres. Obama, IMO. 4. If the cameras add 10 pounds then ED is, again IMO, a bit too think. She's gotten, like SBG in later season, boobless. 5. I'm willing to wait and see about this claim of acting "versatility" on the part of ED, and maybe it's just because she's still mostly "Faith" to me, but I had a really hard time buying her as the hostage negotiator. 1. Yep. I commented to Sara about thinking that. 2. He is not a very sympathetic character at this point. 3. Hmmmm. 4. Didn't notice the thinness, especially in that short dress. She had some meat on her legs...maybe the booblessness look is intentional. Joss always did equate boobies with bad girls. 5. Giving ED the benefit of the doubt, because I've seen that she CAN act. Could be that they are able to imprint a character, but not an actual personality on the dolls.
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Post by Karen on Feb 18, 2009 20:45:11 GMT -5
Here's my lj post about Dollhouse: So I was kind of dreading watching this because all the reviews were bad and the concept sounded stupid and so on and so on. And I have to say, it wasn't as bad as I expected. I ended up being pleasantly surprised. Yea, it was a bit bland and the thing I miss the most is the snark. Where oh where is the snark? I need the snark Joss. Can the Asian doll be snarky? Cause I loved her. As for ED's performance - eh. It was okay. She's no Jennifer Garner and I still saw Faith every time I saw her. Note to costuming department - that dress she was dancing in was a wee bit short. I kept worrying that we were going to get a full frontal there. I am curious about the ending which was awesome so points for leaving the viewer wanting more. Amy Acker felt pointless to me and the scars were very distracting. The head guys were very one note. I did like Echo's handler and I think I'll like Helo/FBI dude (you can see how well the names sunk in - hee!) Anyway, I'll be back. Oh, wait. Was the geisha chick a doll? I totally didn't put that together, though I probably should have. I'm guessing that there's probably some kind of back story that's going to be revealed for Amy Acker. Her scars wouldn't have been deliberately pointed out in the episode if there wasn't some kind of mystery there. The Asian girl was the one on the table that was getting poked and prodded. The one Echo fretted that she was 'hurting'.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 18, 2009 21:05:43 GMT -5
Oh, wait. Was the geisha chick a doll? I totally didn't put that together, though I probably should have. I'm guessing that there's probably some kind of back story that's going to be revealed for Amy Acker. Her scars wouldn't have been deliberately pointed out in the episode if there wasn't some kind of mystery there. The Asian girl was the one on the table that was getting poked and prodded. The one Echo fretted that she was 'hurting'. I thought that was Sierra.
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Post by Squeemonster on Feb 20, 2009 14:54:25 GMT -5
Oh, wait. Was the geisha chick a doll? I totally didn't put that together, though I probably should have. I'm guessing that there's probably some kind of back story that's going to be revealed for Amy Acker. Her scars wouldn't have been deliberately pointed out in the episode if there wasn't some kind of mystery there. The Asian girl was the one on the table that was getting poked and prodded. The one Echo fretted that she was 'hurting'. No, there was a geisha dressed in all the geisha gear heading out of the Dollhouse as Echo was going in, I think after the first "job" from which we see her returning.
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 22, 2009 17:29:35 GMT -5
Just watched this first ep.
Nicely done, and I thought Eliza was really, really good. This is the kind of roll that can truly stretch her acting chops, and I am looking forward to seeing that.
Small brain-wiper guy is very, very, "Warren." Very, very.
Curious to see what is going on with Amy's character.
Very interesting premise; much to explore. Hope to watch next ep before Ep 3 on Friday.
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Post by Vlad on Feb 23, 2009 3:53:47 GMT -5
Feelin' a bit under the gun these days? Tired of feeling like an echo of yourself? Not sure where you are going or where you have been? Well, I have a suggestion for you. Why don't you lose yourself in the... Our dear ex-pat Erin has delivered a highly important document to our organization. This is for your eyes only. Burn after reading. If you do not have S3 clearance level 6, stop reading immediately!
Okay then, if you are still reading this, you must be approved. Erin has written the first of her reviews of dollhouse. Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to hack into the S'cubie website and download the data, codenamed: Ghost: Never Fade Away.Should you be captured, the S3 will disavow any knowledge or connection with you. Good luck, S'cubie. This post will self-destruct in 5 seconds. Vlad
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Post by Sue on Feb 24, 2009 15:12:00 GMT -5
Hey, cool logo at the top, too. Kudos, Vlad
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Post by Sue on Feb 24, 2009 15:15:05 GMT -5
Erin--
Great start with the review. I liked that you drew the parallel to Joss and his own history: that the show has "subtle self-awareness" and he can't totally escape what he has written previously. Excellent point. Also reminding us that we need to be interested in the pasts of all of the characters, not just the obvious (Echo).
Thanks for doing this. I know I'm going to miss a lot and it's helpful to have you (and anybody else who might guest-review) to point things out.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Feb 24, 2009 16:23:40 GMT -5
I found so much that was familiar even as I found so much that was new. A little randomness:
Echo has a handler. Is that not another word for Watcher? Isn't it a recurring theme that each young woman has a not-so-young man observing her performance and every move?
Yes, Amy Acker's scars are very distracting, but I got the impression they were supposed to be. Kudoes to AA for choosing to forego being the "pretty" one. I'm guessing she's going to get her opportunity for some serious scenery chewing later on. I hope so.
No, the pilot didn't blow me away, pilots hardly ever do (among the few exceptions are Buffy, Beauty and the Beast, Leverage) but I was intrigued. I was also more than a little drawn into the parallels that will inevitably pop up. Echo as the "perfect date"? I seem to remember someone else who wanted the "perfect girlfriend" and how well that didn't turn out.
Boy HOWDY that dress was short. Dushku's got amazing legs, but boy HOWDY that dress was short. Echo dances like Faith.
Caroline/Echo contracts with the Dollhouse for 5 years. How will she know when those years are up? Do they give her back her memory and her personality? If she's a successful "operative" why would Dollhouse ever release her? What's to enforce the contract when the signee can't remember it?
The concept isn't new. I remember a story I read in Analog (I think) at least 30 years ago about a man who wanted the perfect date with a woman who was in love with him. The agency he goes to also provides a woman who is deeply, truly in love with him and they have a perfect weekend. When he wants to see her again, the agent tells him that she is now contracted to be in love with someone else. Anybody else remember it? I'd love to know if Joss read the story.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 24, 2009 21:46:38 GMT -5
Erin! So excited to see you doing review/analysis thingees of Dollhouse!! (And am I right in thinking it will be a cool addition to your studies to have a live, ongoing Whedon project to analyze in real time? ) Like you, I tend to take a longer view on pilots, rather like Joss himself, actually. Hasn't he said in the past that he tends to look on the first 6 or 7 eps as the real "pilot"? And yes, it is the rare show that has completely enthralled me with the pilot. Or perhaps I should say, it's the rare show that turned out to be a true long haul favorite of mine that completely enthralled me with the pilot. I'd put Firefly in that category, but frankly only if I were allowed to use the true 2 hour pilot as my "enthrallment" moment, except I didn't see that until the very end. The ep they did show as the "pilot" - The Bank Job? Good, yes, but didn't make me an instant convert. I have to think of other shows that have that special place in my heart (HLOtS and Life and Farscape are the first that come to mind of the non-Jossverse), and how it is the whole long arc through the first season, through the seasons, that make the show. Look at just the first ep and, while some are better than others, all of them have one thing in common. I would never have guessed just how awesome they were going to get. In other words, I knew I was really gonna like, possibly love, Life but I was still stunned and blown away by the time we got to the eps "Dig a Hole" and "Fill it Up". Alright, now that I've babbled about a bunch of other shows, let's get back to Dollhouse. Pilot ep was good, solid, not stunning. As you said, potential and in some subtler ways than I was expecting. Interestingly, you also picked on the one issue I do have with the premise and it is not the supposed "skeeviness" that some have mentioned (I happen to think that it's a rather awesome idea to tackle issues of power and identity; to take a cool Matrix-like SciFi trope of downloading info and think about would it be so cool if you weren't in control of what and when and why info was downloaded). It's the more straighforward issue of why is the Dollhouse needed? I mean, to be crass, the rich clients can already pay for a hooker or an expert if they need to. Why pay even more for these imprinted people? But then I think we have to look at the next ep and what it says about how at least some clients are really looking for ultimate control. Create exactly the person they want, in every detail, and then - with a wave of the hand, when you don't want to play anymore, they go away. No muss, no fuss, no consequences. But, that works better with the hooker scenario, not as much with the negotiator. I look forward to getting more explanation about why the experts are there to be implanted and used. Are the originals all no longer available, all dead? And also, of course, how did they get the recordings of these people to begin with? So again, yay for new Joss on TV! And yay for a new Erin review.
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