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Post by Squeemonster on Feb 20, 2009 15:15:59 GMT -5
"Ellen is faced with a decision that could have repercussions for humans and the future of the entire Cylon race." -- SciFi.com
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Post by Matthew on Feb 21, 2009 2:56:29 GMT -5
Ellen really really is one hell of an amazing high-riding bitch when she feels she needs to be, isn't she? Damn.
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Post by Michelle on Feb 21, 2009 17:53:03 GMT -5
I don't really care for Ellen, and I find my mind wandering when she's on the screen. I didn't enjoy the last episode, and I didn't enjoy this one. And now we have, what, four more episodes to go? I can't blame my dissatisfaction solely on the character of Ellen, but I do feel she plays a big part of it. Maybe if I had watched the episodes from the past seasons that she was in, I would feel differently.
This episode didn't feel very cohesive, and that surprises me, given that it was written by Jane Espenson. It was about some of the Final 5 wanting to depart for the base ship. It was about Ellen's return to Saul, and her issues with his relationship with Caprica and her pregnancy. And it was about Gaius trying to regain his leadership role and helping the humans who are starving. The big news is that Caprica lost the baby, Liam, named for Bill Adama and Anders may be coming out of his vegetative state.
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Post by Karen on Feb 21, 2009 20:00:44 GMT -5
Ellen really really is one hell of an amazing high-riding bitch when she feels she needs to be, isn't she? Damn. She really is. Interesting that she make 'John' to look like her 'father'. And even more interesting is the way she keeps expecting him to do the right thing. I didn't see Tigh's baby's death coming. Thought the Cylon's grieving their losses in the human's memorial room was a nice touch. The fact that they might reengineer the ressurection machine was also a surprise. Love Boomer and the Chief together. Had to laugh at the Chief's reaction to being told by Sam that he and what's her name were once 'madly in love'. (Wonder why Tyrol doesn't remember that - he seems to remember some of his past life.) Sam's brain damage paralleling talk of splitting open Ellen's brain to get the knowledge out was interesting. Boomer's reason for rescuing Ellen - she forgives her - awesome. I love Boomer. She keeps being used, but always seems to fight back to getting her 'self back. So..8's were subservient. 7's were artists. And not tolerated at all, it seems - probably because they were too original thinking. Loved the ep. Baltar still a slimy horndog. He amuses. |
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Post by Karen on Feb 21, 2009 20:11:25 GMT -5
I don't really care for Ellen, and I find my mind wandering when she's on the screen. I didn't enjoy the last episode, and I didn't enjoy this one. And now we have, what, four more episodes to go? I can't blame my dissatisfaction solely on the character of Ellen, but I do feel she plays a big part of it. Maybe if I had watched the episodes from the past seasons that she was in, I would feel differently. This episode didn't feel very cohesive, and that surprises me, given that it was written by Jane Espenson. It was about some of the Final 5 wanting to depart for the base ship. It was about Ellen's return to Saul, and her issues with his relationship with Caprica and her pregnancy. And it was about Gaius trying to regain his leadership role and helping the humans who are starving. The big news is that Caprica lost the baby, Liam, named for Bill Adama and Anders may be coming out of his vegetative state. I felt that incohesiveness, too. It was a very full ep. In the middle of it all was Sam's trying to tell the rest of the Five what he remembers of the past. Yikes. I thought Bill and Saul's hug was intense and telling, as was their conversation about how blame for their current situation was almost impossible to pin on anyone group - cylon, human, the final five - although Saul wanted to pin it on them. Moving on from wanting 'justice' for past hurts - like Cavel wants - is the most important thing that needs to happen to a civilization before it can make a giant leap of growth. Think we as a people will ever figure that one out?  |
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Post by Shan on Feb 22, 2009 10:59:40 GMT -5
Ellen really really is one hell of an amazing high-riding bitch when she feels she needs to be, isn't she? Damn. I think they're all...imprinted, for want of a better word...with their human traits. Ellen-the-Cylon-mom still drinks, she's still manipulative, and she still has military-wife issues ("You love Bill Adama more than you love me!"). I was liking her somewhat on the base ship but not so much on Galactica. Perhaps I liked her for how the writers used her for so much exposition on the base ship. On Galactica, she's just as much trouble for the humans as she always was. |
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Post by artemis on Feb 22, 2009 11:45:22 GMT -5
"how many more dead chicks are OUT there?"  i suspect this is going to be quite an interesting episode... |
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Post by artemis on Feb 22, 2009 12:48:01 GMT -5
act 1 i love how baltar won't say HE abandoned them, but God? sure, why not! ;D and head!six is back! "did you put this idea in their heads?" thank you, tigh, for asking that of tory, 'cause i was wondering the exact same thing... i love how ellen just stands there not saying anyting after the pregnancy is revealed, and then blurts out at the end of the discussion, "caprica six is pregnant?" and tigh turns to her abruptly as if he's suddenly realized the cat is out of the bag. poor anders. |
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Post by artemis on Feb 22, 2009 13:05:54 GMT -5
act 2 it seems so unfair to me that ellen is holding the other final five up to the standards of remembering everything, 'cause, well, they don't. yeah, to HER it's incestuous, but how the heck was a memory-wiped tigh supposed to know? "can we talk about the offer, maybe deal with the baby later?" i love chief! ;D nice segue from ellen to baltar, two master manipulators... "it was like watching my parents make out." i don't know what i like more, starbuck's one-liners or their delivery. ;D this episode is good at illustrating how low the fleet is in supplies... |
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Post by artemis on Feb 22, 2009 13:22:27 GMT -5
act 3 so many references to alcohol in this episode! i understand adama's point about galactica, but i see it as analogous to societies: both ships and societies have to change to survive. that doesn't mean it's automatically unrecognizable or confusing, just that it's not what it was before. interesting about him saying he knows they need the cylons to survive. i wonder what the other five would say if they knew. i love six/baltar's speech: "all we need is strength. and strength comes from within ... [pause to listen to six] and guns! more guns, bigger guns, better guns! and when we have those, we will WIN!" too funny! and so often what people really think. ;D i had forgotten just how much i dislike ellen. |
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Post by artemis on Feb 22, 2009 13:45:50 GMT -5
act 4 poor caprica and tigh... "what you have right now is starving civilians with no representation, no recourse. they're broken, they're exhausted, they've had enough. they're that's not a mutiny, admiral, that is a revolution. [...] galactica is slipping away from you drop by drop..." i can't believe baltar's the one who took the lessons of the mutiny to heart! wow, paula looks way too pleased to have guns. ;D and chief's taken starbuck's advice and is watching boomer while she sleeps. and now we're back to anders...is he waking up? poor tigh... "it's already happened, hasn't it?" exactly. |
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Post by artemis on Feb 22, 2009 13:54:01 GMT -5
I think they're all...imprinted, for want of a better word...with their human traits. so you think the Final Five were modelled on humans and then created the new human-trait cylons? definitely with the military wife issues!  yeah, me too. i thought her conversations with cavil were interesting, and in opposition to such a bitter and manipulative person, her own manipulativeness somehow didn't seem "so bad". but amongst people who aren't cavil-ish, she seems so vindictive and manipulative and selfish, just as she's always seemed to me. i felt like this episode tried to cram too many different story lines into one hour. i understood how they were trying to tie it all together, but it didn't entirely fit neatly into its intended theme to me. it seemed like the last episode was very action-y for so much exposition, and like this one was pretty slow for so much action. |
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Post by Shan on Feb 22, 2009 17:52:01 GMT -5
so you think the Final Five were modelled on humans and then created the new human-trait cylons? [jazzhanded confused fanwanking] No, I think the Final Five were the biologically reproduced descendants of the skinjobs that were created on Kobol and who dispersed as the 13th colony to Earth (or "Earth" if you live in my brain). On "Earth", the Final Five, either in tandem with or because of the realization that the creation (or re-creation) of the subservient Centurion class of Cylons would eventually result in a (or another) war, re-invented resurrection technology and uploaded their consciousnesses to a ship orbiting "Earth" just in time to preserve themselves before they were destroyed by the "Earth"-created Centurions of the 13th tribe. They intended to travel to the other 12 colonies to warn the other tribes (humans or biologically-reproducing Cylon skinjobs, you decide) about the evolution of sentience in the Centurions, but because they were traveling at sub-light speed, it took them a couple of thousand years to get there and they arrived too late, after the first Cylon war had already started. In order to get the Centurions to stop making war on the humans (if that's what they were/are), they gave the Centurions the technology to build their own skinjobs, along with (as I understand it) monotheism, courtesy of Ellen who thought it would make the Centurions nicer or something. I'm not sure who of the Final Five or the Centurions created the Other Eight (heh) except that Ellen created at least John (#1, the Cavills) who, being a nasty piece of vindictive, jealous, psychotic and perpetually OWED piece of work, boxed up the Final Five and sent them, sans their memories, to live amongst the humans after the first Cylon war, which is where Ellen obtained (and retained) some of the human traits I mentioned earlier. However, she might have been like that already, who knows. Chicken, egg, etc... <edit> When Ellen is talking to Saul and refers to the Other Eight, she calls them their children, but whether that's because the Final Five created all of them or whether it's because the Final Five helped the Centurions create them and she still considers them to be the children of the Final Five, I don't know. Whew! I think I just talked myself out of my own argument, wow! [/jazzhanded confused fanwanking] |
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Post by Lola m on Feb 22, 2009 20:42:51 GMT -5
I like how Adama is part hopeful, part creeped out, part interested, part ewwww, about the cylon stuff that they hope will grow and fill in and fix their ship. Ooooooh! A Six? Is this a Six we've seen before, or . . . ? This is pregnant Six? Are the cylons just mixed in with the humans? They're still/back to food issues, eh? They really do need to find a planet or other source of creating their own food. "I just don't trust that machine." Ha! Ooooooh! Is this Boomer and Ellen? Damn. I love how Ellen is so . . . poised.  And Chief knows right off that this isn't just any 8, it's Boomer. Oh, the fun times are all right ahead of us, aren't they? "I really think Cavil's completely unbalanced." Well. What the hell was your first clue?!  Heh! Adama has a flask. Imagine if there were only 5. It is a powerful idea. I mean, Ellen and the others were literally in the same position as the remaining humans are now, back in the last war, long long long long ago . . . So, what will they do? Each of them? All of them? Heh! The Awesome Tighs. "Floor or table?" "I don't care." Now, they really need to have pregnant Six stroll in . . . Ooopsie. Guess she has other problems right now. Heh!! Here comes the missing Gaius. Will all his lost lambs be happy to see him? Looks like yes and no.  And that's even before he tells them his new message. "There were dead men in the halls with guns." And we get more snapshots to fill in the larger picture of just how much the fleet is falling apart - the mutiny, the ships that are beat up, the shrinking rations . . . Yay!!!! Head!Six!!! "Sheep have a new shepherd, Gaius." Damn, I love head!Six. It was a Six. That he "frakked". "I thought of you, always." ;D Ah, ha ha ha ha!! How I've missed the fucked-up Tighs. "Are you still seeing her?" Oh, Ellen! Just wait until you know it all. Ha! Love Doc Cottle too. "Just don't anybody unplug anything." ;D Have they all think they should jump away? But Ellen thinks, no. Hera is the answer. But wait, no the "pure Cylon" baby is the answer. Ha!! Didn't mention your upcoming happy news, did you, Tigh? |
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Post by Lola m on Feb 22, 2009 21:19:58 GMT -5
"You are our children!" (All shocked like she wasn't having sex with Cavil herself. Although maybe it's the reproduction thing that's squicking her, moreso than the sex.) And Chief is all "hey, let's figure out about the offer and if we're jumping away, ok, and think about your wacky relationships issues later". ;D I love the inherent fairness of Chief. He is voting to go, but he stands up for Anders, knowing that he wouldn't, if he could speak. Majority rules, and Ellen is the tie(ha!)-breaker who hasn't decied yet. Since Gaius has been gone, they've been trying to focus on, you know, life. Except they're facing the ethical choice of what to do with the food they have. Do they have enough to share with everyone? Looks like Gaius isn't going to give them a choice. Which is the "right" choice, of course, actually. But is he doing it just so he can make noble speeches and as part of a power ploy? "Is this child important?" That was an . . . interesting little moment between Roslin and Caprica Six. Heh! "Like watching my parents make out." ;D Planting the seed of the idea of Chief visiting Boomer, while Ellen heads off to see Caprica. Oh, devious devious Ellen. "I come here and try to be good. Really, you have all the proof you need that he loves you." And now they get more real. "Love must not be enough, because he did love you." "This is rough." No rioting, no uniforms. Hmmmmm. Except there's the local enforcers instead. Heh! Drunken Tigh and Adama. Bros! "Any mythic revelations?" Heeeee!! "Great grampa was a power sander!" Can we just always watch these two guys getting giggly together? ;D She won't know what she is anymore. Still Galactica on the outside . . . Ahh, he's all maudlin. Laura and Lee "see it". Gaius loved giving. And he takes a stand about helping others. I love how they are having Gaius be the good guy. 'Cuz he's such a sleaze even when he's doing the "right" thing. "But strength comes from within. All we need is ourselves! . . . And guns!! Bigger guns, more guns!"  Tigh trying to talk Ellen 'round regarding the vote. And Ellen just wants to talk about Caprica Six and the baby. Ooooooh, Tigh!! You go, guy, with the core truth thing! "Pure human doesn't work, pure cylon doesn't work." And that was what you were thinking too, Ellen, admit it, before you learned about Saul and his new love and new baby. And she's still jealous of Adama, too. "Apparently we invented majority rule, but I don't remember, so frak that!" "Go be pure and safe." And he is right that she doesn't even want to go, she's just making this move to spite him. Back to the baby troubles? |
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And that's even before he tells them his new message.